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Tlaloc
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Not all of us think it is worth conquering. But beyond that we aren’t biologically driven to be racist or smoke or use drugs and those campaigns are still miserably ineffective.
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Tlaloc
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???
I am absolutely befuddled by that statement.
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BlindSheep
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People did cover it up - but there was still much less of it.
This message implies they will. That’s the point I was making.
They shouldn’t, not even as adults, until they are *married. *That needs to be the standard. People tend to do what they feel others expect.
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Lisa_N
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You seem sadly uninformed. The rate of smokers in this country has dropped dramatically with the programs, particularly those targeted at children to prevent them from taking up the addiction. Do you not think racism has declined as well? In my lifetime I have seen a complete 360 on the subject of racism.
Drugs, I don’t know about the incidence now of drugs vis a vis the past but the other two have declined dramatically.
One of the most EFFECTIVE mechanisms is social disapproval. Look at our completely different attitude toward smoking and drunk drivers, two issues that were absolutely ignored when I was a kid. Between MADD and other organizations we have effectively made drunk drivers into the criminals they are and smokers are about as welcome as a skunk at a picnic.
Social disapproval of premarital sex would do a great deal to reduce its incidence. We not only approve of premarital sex our social services agencies provide numerous programs that tend to support unwed preganacies in spite of the myriad of negative consequences of being the child of single parents.
Lisa N
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Tlaloc
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I don’t agree at all that that needs to be the standard. Indeed I think it’s a **terrible **idea. To be totally sexually inexperienced and then bound to one person forever never knowing before hand if you are even remotely compatible?
Would you buy a car without every test driving it? Would buy a house never having seen it? Would you hire a nanny that you’d never met?
Of course not, no rational person would, but you’ll make a lifetime commitment without any idea of what’s in store for you, and ask your partner to do the same. You do it because it’s what your religion calls for, the rest of us don’t follow your religion and don’t need or want to follow it’s peculiar views on sexuality.
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legeorge
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This is not a very good argument. Ever since society adopted this attitude, the divorce rate has tripled!!
So much for secular logic!!Of course you are basing this logic on the flawed theory that sex is what makes the marriage. Oh, Tlaloc, I feel so bad for you. Again, you are completely missing the point.
Some day, with the prayers that are coming your way, you will see things differently.
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SusanL
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You aren’t Catholic, are you.
Are you Christian?
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Tlaloc
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Yes, so much better for them to be trapped in hateful marriages than able to separate! Maybe we can even get the spousal abuse numbers back up by forcing people who don’t like each other to stay together…This is not a very good argument. Ever since society adopted this attitude, the divorce rate has tripled!!
No it doesn’t make the marriage but it most certainly can ruin the marriage. Getting married to someone you don’t get along with is a terrible idea. Getting married to someone you can’t cooperate with is a terrible idea. Getting married to someone you can’t enjoy being with is a terrible idea. But also getting married to someone sexually incompatible to you is a terrible idea.Of course you are basing this logic on the flawed theory that sex is what makes the marriage. Oh, Tlaloc, I feel so bad for you. Again, you are completely missing the point.
You’ll never know how compatible you are until you’ve actually gone down that road.
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Tlaloc
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No. Spiritual but not religious.
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Tyler_Smedley
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That is untrue, and what do you mean about sexually incompatable? How could you be incompatable, the parts will fit where they are supposed to go. To say that you must have sex before you know if two people can have sex is silly, and faulty logic. Is all women are to you cars? That people need to be “test driven” before you can tell if you like them?
That kind of mentality is destroying our culture, look around you and see what this is doing. People don’t want or even need to get married, love is seen a feeling rather then a choice, the moment the warm fuzzy is gone out the door to find someone else. This is ripping the world apart.
You need to read The Good News about Sex and Marriage, by Christopher West, it explains the Theology of the Body, a teaching about Human sexuality by Pope John Paul II. The teachings of the Church about sexuality is what can and will change the world, not allowing people to become “more sexually experienced” and testing “compatabiltiy”.
That kind of mentality is destroying our culture, look around you and see what this is doing. People don’t want or even need to get married, love is seen a feeling rather then a choice, the moment the warm fuzzy is gone out the door to find someone else. This is ripping the world apart.
You need to read The Good News about Sex and Marriage, by Christopher West, it explains the Theology of the Body, a teaching about Human sexuality by Pope John Paul II. The teachings of the Church about sexuality is what can and will change the world, not allowing people to become “more sexually experienced” and testing “compatabiltiy”.
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Anna_Elizabeth
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Lisa N:
Anna:
Lisa, Are you sure you mean to say that you’ve seen “a complete 360 on the subject of racism?”
Anna:
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Tlaloc
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Tyler Smedley:
No, not always. Really.
What I said is they’d have be intimate before they’ll get to know if they are compatible that way. Compatible doesn’t just mean the mechanical (although it does mean that too) it also means their tastes, wants, needs, hopes, fears, everything about how they relate to human sexuality.
Like them? No. I like a lot of women I’ve never slept with. i wouldn’t marry any of them of course.
No, it’s ripping how you see the world apart. The world itself is just fine, it’s your paradigm that’s threatened.
I highly doubt it. Even among nominal catholics there are strong tendencies to go against the Church’s teachings. on top of that America is becoming more secular not more religious. So the odds of the Church rolling back the clock to Victorian behavior are pretty slim.
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Tyler_Smedley
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I suggest that you read it, victorian behavior is what it isn’t and I would encourage you to look up his website as well. www.christopherwest.com
I would call wars around the world, the world ripping it self apart, I would call natural disasters killing hundreds of thousands ripping the world apart, I would call coruption all over the place ripping the world apart. Killing 45 million children in this country alone since the 70’s, the ability to kill undersirables under the age of 6 in the netherlands killing the elderly ignoring the homeless, do you find these things good? Maybe you could tell me what is going right in the world and how you see the world as “just fine”.
As to the Sexuality issue how many women have used just to obtain sexual pleasure, you say that “I like many women that I haven’t slept with. I wouldn’t marry any of them of course” Do you know see how heartless that sounds? That you are objectifying women, simply to derive pleasure from their bodies, then to discard them. Do you really care about any of them?
I would call wars around the world, the world ripping it self apart, I would call natural disasters killing hundreds of thousands ripping the world apart, I would call coruption all over the place ripping the world apart. Killing 45 million children in this country alone since the 70’s, the ability to kill undersirables under the age of 6 in the netherlands killing the elderly ignoring the homeless, do you find these things good? Maybe you could tell me what is going right in the world and how you see the world as “just fine”.
As to the Sexuality issue how many women have used just to obtain sexual pleasure, you say that “I like many women that I haven’t slept with. I wouldn’t marry any of them of course” Do you know see how heartless that sounds? That you are objectifying women, simply to derive pleasure from their bodies, then to discard them. Do you really care about any of them?
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Lisa_N
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Anna Elizabeth:
Racists were probably not so much admired as tolerated. Now when someone makes a racial remark they are ostracized, fired, or publically embarrassed. I don’t think that would have happened in the 1950s.
Maybe the way I said it was confusing but I meant that racism is considered an evil now, but it was not always that way. Hope this makes sense
Lisa N
Yes, when I was a kid, although I lived in the north and there was not a large black community, I did know that blacks were very much discriminated against and people didn’t comphrehend that such things as separate swimming pools, dressing rooms, schools were anything but the normal order of things. My mom said when we were little kids we had a babysitter who had an interracial child and both the mom and the child were treated horribly.Lisa, Are you sure you mean to say that you’ve seen “a complete 360 on the subject of racism?”
Anna:
Racists were probably not so much admired as tolerated. Now when someone makes a racial remark they are ostracized, fired, or publically embarrassed. I don’t think that would have happened in the 1950s.
Maybe the way I said it was confusing but I meant that racism is considered an evil now, but it was not always that way. Hope this makes sense
Lisa N
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Tlaloc
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Tyler Smedley:
I don’t discard them any more than they discard me. you have to move past the sexist notion that men want sex and women want marriage. The reverse is often true in both cases.
None of which is attributable to people sleeping together before marriage. Not to mention that all of them occured as well when the Church ruled the western world.
I wouldn’t say the world is just fine, but the sexual revolution and the moving away from oppressive and unhealthy sexual mores is one way the world is going right.
I can’t understand your question, I think there’s a word missing somewhere in there.
No it doesn’t sound heartless to me at all. It’s no different than saying “I wouldn’t marry a woman I had never talked to.”
Yes actually I care about them deeply. I don’t get how you consider it to be using them. I don’t lie to them. In several cases they most definitely diodn’t want anything more than a casual fling and would have been scared off had I talked of marriage. One of these women I still correspond with frequently. We were friends, then lovers briefly, then friends again.
I don’t discard them any more than they discard me. you have to move past the sexist notion that men want sex and women want marriage. The reverse is often true in both cases.
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Tlaloc
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Lisa N:
You meant a 180, a 360 would be all the way around a circle and back to your starting position. I had a friend who always made that slip.
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BlindSheep
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You shouldn’t make assumptions. I am married. I slept with plenty of men before I was married and trust me, being ‘experienced’ didn’t improve my life at all. It messed up my life in many ways. If I had my life to live over again, I would wait for marriage.
Just speaking in general terms, divorce increased after the sexual revolution, and divorce rates are higher with premarital sex and even higher with cohabitation. It wouldn’t appear that premarital sex improves marriages. And don’t say these people are just more willing to stay in unhappy marriages - 75% of unhappy married couples who stay together are happy 5 years later. So yes, these are the people who have the moral values that help them stick it out when their marriages are troubled, and those marriages eventually improve.
The public schools have no business encouraging teens to engage in unhealthy behaviors. If you want to teach your kids to use condoms, go ahead - but don’t try to influence my kids.
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DeniseR
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Tlaloc, a man and a woman are sexually compatable by virtue of the fact that they are made a man and a woman. If two people truly love and respect one another and are living a chaste life in the sanctity of marriage they will desire one another and be sexually compatable in a way that you probably never experienced. This is especially true of neither of them have experimented with other people before marriage.
If you’re just looking for someone to curl your toes in bed you can find a number of women who are physically able to do that. However, if you’re looking for someone to share every aspect of your life with the toe-curling will happen. You don’t have to shop around for that “special feature”.
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DeniseR
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I actually can understand part of Tlaloc’s mentallity. I once had the same mentallity when I had to justify my sinful behavior. I would say that we are two concenting adults and it feels good and we care about one another and guys have used me so why shouldn’t I use them…
I’m ashamed to admit it now but I kind of know where he’s coming from. It’s a dark place to live but if/when he emerges from the darkness and sees how beautiful the light of Christ is and his mercy and forgiveness is, he will feel so free.
There are many of us praying for you, Tlaloc.
I’m ashamed to admit it now but I kind of know where he’s coming from. It’s a dark place to live but if/when he emerges from the darkness and sees how beautiful the light of Christ is and his mercy and forgiveness is, he will feel so free.
There are many of us praying for you, Tlaloc.
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Pious_Redeemer
Guest
Lol!
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