The Death of 'Me-Church'

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roveau said:
I really don’t understand this thread at all. There is something wrong with the tone of the writer. What point was he making which relates to the love of Christ? ‘Me-Church’?
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I am confussed as well and don’t understand those who say the original author was “'uncharitable” for criticizing someone else who has been criticizing the Church for decades? Doesn’t make sense to me at all.
 
soflochristmas said:
I am confussed as well and don’t understand those who say the original author was “'uncharitable” for criticizing someone else who has been criticizing the Church for decades? Doesn’t make sense to me at all.
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Prodigal son criticized his fathers rules and order, yet he returned to him, I think that is the context.
 
Layman said:
Errr … but the Mass is all about symbolism. It affects your interior disposition. Otherwise, why have kneeling, standing, crossing yourself, vestments, statues etc?

I actually like dressing casually; comfortable shoes, tee-shirt. Just can’t do it any more, at the TLM I sing at. You can make of that what you like.

I think of it like going to an audience with a king. It honours Him and lets my sub-conscious know that this is Serious Business.
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But do you not agree that another person might be able to understand that Mass is Serious Business in casual dress?

That’s what I learned over the weekend in comparing those two families. Regardless of their dress on the outside, my “theme park family” had the correct attitude of attentiveness and reverence.
 
I think sober dress is part of a family of things, that, put together, make for a more uplifting and edifying Mass.

e.g. You can make a nice fruit trifle without sherry, but it adds something good.

[Just thought of something: “The Mass, tested to destruction?” How much can you change or omit before it’s time to seek a new church to attend? I think a pop band does it for me. ]
 
Layman said:
I think sober dress is part of a family of things, that, put together, make for a more uplifting and edifying Mass.

e.g. You can make a nice fruit trifle without sherry, but it adds something good.

[Just thought of something: “The Mass, tested to destruction?” How much can you change or omit before it’s time to seek a new church to attend? I think a pop band does it for me. ]
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The “turn around and greet your neighbor”, the applause for birthdays, anniversaries, veterans and anything else the Pastor could think of and the weekly discussions about American Idol did it for me.

I was lucky to find a parish that is a bit more reverent, but the music still sounds like it was written for Pre Kindergarten.
 
mkingdomlvr said:
Given the choice-I’d rather sit near “theme park family” any day. I made sure to greet them afterward and compliment their children on their fine behavior. I couldn’t say anything to the nicely dressed family, they blew out of the pew as soon as the final hymn started.
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I’d rather than “theme park family” make that one last effort to look nice for mass and that “nicely dressed family” make that one last effort to behave as if they were in the presence of the Lord. That way, everybody wins. 😉

I honestly do think that God expects us to make our best effort for Him. He laid down many strict laws to Moses on how to live. Jesus relieved us of some of those requirements but Jesus never said or suggested that we should just do whatever we want at all times; that is an attitude that began creeping in with the Reformation and has gotten really out of control the past 40 - 50 years.

A person who is poverty-stricken and owns only one set of clothes has an excuse. Most of the rest of us do not.
 
ibkc said:
I’d rather than “theme park family” make that one last effort to look nice for mass and that “nicely dressed family” make that one last effort to behave as if they were in the presence of the Lord. That way, everybody wins. 😉

I honestly do think that God expects us to make our best effort for Him. He laid down many strict laws to Moses on how to live. Jesus relieved us of some of those requirements but Jesus never said or suggested that we should just do whatever we want at all times; that is an attitude that began creeping in with the Reformation and has gotten really out of control the past 40 - 50 years.

A person who is poverty-stricken and owns only one set of clothes has an excuse. Most of the rest of us do not.
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Where in scripture does it tell you to do anything else but dress modestly? I’m still seeing in the pews some very immodest and “expensive” clothing being dawned, they are accepted because they have the budget, the modest element apparently is now out the window.
 
prodigalson12 said:
Where in scripture does it tell you to do anything else but dress modestly?
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Well, in my book, jogging shorts and flip-flops aren’t especially modest. And even with the people who aren’t coming to Sunday mass on their way to the volleyball game, our pews are filled with young girls in tight-fitting, low-cut clothes. We even have an EMHC who is in her 50’s and is probably an easy 44 DD wearing a tight tank top to distribute Our Lord. Call me a fuddy-duddy, but I think people can do better. 🙂
 
ibkc said:
Well, in my book, jogging shorts and flip-flops aren’t especially modest. And even with the people who aren’t coming to Sunday mass on their way to the volleyball game, our pews are filled with young girls in tight-fitting, low-cut clothes. We even have an EMHC who is in her 50’s and is probably an easy 44 DD wearing a tight tank top to distribute Our Lord. Call me a fuddy-duddy, but I think people can do better. 🙂
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That attire is exactly what I was pointing out with people having expensive “innapropriate” clothing, take note, they are actually looked up to since they are in style with the latest trends. It’s an aweful feeling to be in mass and having to be subjected to seeing this attire, afterall I’m a red blooded single male, I don’t need testing like that, especially in the church.

At the same time, with the flipflop people, if it’s any kind of an obstical for you to go to mass because you don’t want to get all dressed up, it would better that you show up wearing what ever you have currently on then not at all. Now, taking a step back here, shouldn’t you be wearing modest clothing on a regular basis, in and out of church? Then taking that into account, why doesn’t wearing what you normally do as being adequetly showing who you are, not dressing up to be something that you are not. I’m still kind of floored with people’s reactions to me, I get treated differently when I’m wearing nice clothes, yet the reality is, I only wear them on special occasions for I’d rather be treated as I am, like I am with no false pretense.
 
paperwight said:
Why should someone on a restricted income buy suits for her sons which are only going to be worn for once a week (and grown out of in a few months, most likely) ? If someone did, there would soon be crticisms about wasting money!
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cop out. Ever go the good will? They have plenty of nice clothes. I have been to churches in poor areas and the people in them were dressed better than people in more affluent areas.
And as for the implication that people who don’t dress formally for church don’t have enough respect for Jesus Christ, words fail me.
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yeah I guess so.
 
Mrs_Sally said:
Our disposition is interior and has nothing tp do with what we are wearing. Or really what those around us are wearing.

Again, there is quite a few wardrobe choices between a suit and butt-crack showing jeans. Sitting in the very first pew would avoid having any dress issues to look at.
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I think what you wear says allot about ones character.
 
Ockham said:
The Death of ‘Me-Church’
by Steve Skojec
8/21/09

This past Sunday, as I attempted to get my wriggling, squeaking, squirming children settled in our pew for what usually amounts to a liturgical rodeo – see if you can keep them on their best behavior for eight seconds without getting thrown out of the church – I noticed the arrival of two women in their sixties who clearly looked like they did not belong. Processing up the aisle in search of a seat, they were dressed very casually, with the short-cropped, boyish, almost intentionally unattractive hairstyles that seem to be de rigeur for the aging members of America’s post-feminism movement. They stood out in a sea of suits, ties, dresses, and chapel veils.

…] I Critical men: some women, especially older women like me, can’t wear long hair, we don’t have enough of it, and we would frighten people. And by the way, some women can’t wear pretty dresses either because they have to wear clunky comfortable shoes - the two just don’t go together.

As I looked at them (they were partially blocking my view of the altar, so I couldn’t help it), I felt not my usual twinge of irritation at the guardians of “Me-Church,” but instead a kind of amused pity. They couldn’t perform their non-conformist schtick, mad-libbing their way through responses that, in Latin, they couldn’t understand. Hindered by the liturgical language barrier and unfamiliar with the posture of the priest, they were also unable to determine when to hold hands inappropriately during the “Our Father” and were ritually deprived of the showy displays of human affection afforded them by the Sign of Peace.

…]

The visitors’ triumphalistic “We Are Church” mentality was made irrelevant by a more humble, less self-conscious Catholicism. The people around them were far less concerned with having the attention focused on them, and far more concerned with keeping children quiet and well-behaved, and making it through the confession line before Communion time.​

Steve Skojec is a columnist and blogger for InsideCatholic.com.

insidecatholic.com/Joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6727&Itemid=48
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mkingdomlvr said:
I think worrying about what other people wear says a lot about ones character as well.
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Agreed…but we probably don’t agree on what it says about the character of the person who worries about how others approach God.
 
soflochristmas said:
Agreed…but we probably don’t agree on what it says about the character of the person who worries about how others approach God.
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🤷 You lost me.

I just don’t think God wants me to spend my time at Mass worrying about what everyone else is wearing.
 
God sees you and He sees what’s in your heart too.

If you don’t know any better and dress casually, no fault there, I’d say.
If you know the Mass is important but think, “nah, I won’t dress up”, well, one could ask, why?
If you know the Mass is important but deliberately dress in a distracting manner, well …

Personally, I find it fun, in a way, to watch my different emotions battle it out on a hot Sunday: “Tie, no tie, comfortable shoes, formal shoes …”.

Alway glad when I make the extra effort, in the end.
 
I don’t think this article is very charitable 🤷 I mean, it’s great that these people came to the Mass, they shouldn’t be judged or made felt unwelcome… when I went to my first TLM I didn’t know what to expect, and I’m glad no one stared at me cause I made mistakes lol…
 
4EverHis said:
I don’t think this article is very charitable 🤷 I mean, it’s great that these people came to the Mass, they shouldn’t be judged or made felt unwelcome… when I went to my first TLM I didn’t know what to expect, and I’m glad no one stared at me cause I made mistakes lol…
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I agree that there is a wide expanse of clothing that is acceptable at Mass. I don’t think that boys have to wear a suit to be dressed in a respectful way to pray the Mass. As many have said, a clean shirt & slacks are just fine & all that many can afford during these times. A little girl in a cute summer dress or an older girl in a skirt & blouse is fine. Jeans,shorts, flip-flops & logo T-shirts aren’t fine as far as I’m concerned.

I truly believe that the way we dress affects us & others who see us. That’s why the “casual Fridays” of the 1990’s are either going or gone in schools & companies.

What concerns me about the post I’m quoting is that it echoes the attitude that I come across often… we should feel so"lucky" & “blessed” that someone came to Mass…that we shouldn’t expect anything else. That’s just not true. If they do not show a reverent attitude, if they chew gum all during the Liturgy, take it out of their mouth to receive the host, pop it back in after (I actually followed, in the Communion line, a young man who did that.) & wave & wink & high five their friends on the way to their seat, I don’t feel “Lucky” to have them there. My own 4 children would have been “dead meat” if they did that.

If a grown woman appears at Mass in a push-up bra under a sun dress, I’m not “lucky”. If a grown man comes in khaki golf shorts & sandals…all he has to do is leave Mass immediately following Communion…change the sandals for golf shoes & he’s off to the links, that doesn’t make me feel “Blessed”. God deserves the BEST from us & He knows what each individual’s best is, the Catholic Church, founded by Christ, Himself…deserves our best.

BTW., to the poster who said, "when I went to my first TLM I didn’t know what to expect, and I’m glad no one stared at me cause I made mistakes lol…/
Not knowing where the priest is when new to the TLM., not knowing exactly when to genuflect, not sure about when to stand & when to kneel **is not **in the same category as showing disrespect by dressing sloppily. I attended the Tridentine Mass for the first 25 yrs. of my life, I attended Catholic schools 1-12 & STILL I fumbled & stumbled through the Latin Mass when I first started attending again about a year & a half ago. After all, it had been 40 years…these things would not matter to anyone attending because most of us have had the same problem. It takes a few weeks.
 
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