The Death of Pretty (an article on how many women want to be seen now)

[Debora123]

So are many many women from Eastern Europe and Asia - neither of which have stringent clothing policies or Islam as the state religion!

Not to mention more than a few home-grown American gals, of course.

So you still have no proof that this is MORE prevalent in Saudi Arabia.

Perhaps it is not MORE prevalent in the middle east (though I think it is), **but it can’t be said to be more scarce either, and that is precisely our point. **

 

[Castello]

Perhaps the poster thought I didn’t deserve to be referred to by a human name??

Wearing a spaghetti strapped dress to a dance party apparently doesn’t make a person worthy of a name around here.

Good heavens, I did not see labels on the people in the photo.

In my experience spaghetti straps would not make the dress code cut at a Catholic event, a woman wearing that would be asked to cover her shoulders.

 

[Walking_Home]

So are many many women from Eastern Europe and Asia - neither of which have stringent clothing policies or Islam as the state religion!

Not to mention more than a few home-grown American gals, of course.

So you still have no proof that this is MORE prevalent in Saudi Arabia.

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It still shows that their strict clothing standards for women – does not deter the abuse of women and young girls.

It is even coming out – that some Amish communities here in the US – with the girls and women in “modest” long dresses – have skeletons in their closets. The sexual abuse of girls even by their own relatives.

 

[Nate13]

I think you are misreading what James intended from that verse. According to my studies, James was telling people who are not qualified that if they pretended to be teachers that they would be condemned for it. A reminder that not everyone is called to teach, and if you are not… don’t.

Something to add to this:

2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. the person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.

2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized. It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."85 Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others. Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep’s clothing.86

2286 Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion.

Therefore, they are guilty of scandal who establish laws or social structures leading to the decline of morals and the corruption of religious practice, or to "social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible."87 This is also true of business leaders who make rules encouraging fraud, teachers who provoke their children to anger,88 or manipulators of public opinion who turn it away from moral values.

2287 Anyone who uses the power at his disposal in such a way that it leads others to do wrong becomes guilty of scandal and responsible for the evil that he has directly or indirectly encouraged. "Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come!"89

 

[Debora123]

I did not know the name of the person until they identified themselves - one can use any picture as an avatar. I found it quite ironic, that is all.

The ironic thing actually is that though a lot of you people on this forum think my clothes are very immodest and I thus lead men into lust and apparently have no respect for myself, men have actually always respected me greatly. I have a lot of wonderful male friends, and married a good, pure hearted man.

…One would figure this would not be the case, if I were truly dressing so scandalously, using my body for bate, and making men lust after me… as some here would say.

In fact, I feel more disrespected and objectified by the women here than I ever have in real life by a man.

THAT is ironic.

 

[passer_by]

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It still shows that their strict clothing standards for women – does not deter the abuse of women and young girls.

It is even coming out – that some Amish communities here in the US – with the girls and women in “modest” long dresses – have skeletons in their closets. The sexual abuse of girls even by their own relatives.

You really don’t seem to understand the issue at all eh.

Having strict clothing rules BY THEM SELF is not going to solve the problem. As I said million times before, there are TWO PARTIES at fault.

The second party, MEN, have to be taught to behave appropriately toward women AS WELL.

But for you, it has to be EITHER WOMEN’s fault or MAN’s fault. The correct answer is

BOTH ARE AT FAULT!

So what needs to happen is Women need to dress properly and Men need to be more disciplined. They go together. If either one is missing, then society looks like the Western one.

 

[Debora123]

In my experience spaghetti straps would not make the dress code cut at a Catholic event, a woman wearing that would be asked to cover her shoulders.

Really? Well that’s strange. I can’t remember the last time I went to a Catholic wedding in a Catholic Church where the Bride’s dress wasn’t strapless.

My wedding dress sure was, so were those of all my 5 bridesmaids.

…Now I get to sit here and wait for all the criticism thrown at my church and all the other church’s around the nation that have apparently “gone down hill.”

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/picture.php?albumid=1146&pictureid=9801

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/picture.php?albumid=1146&pictureid=9459

 

[passer_by]

The ironic thing actually is that though a lot of you people on this forum think my clothes are very immodest and I thus lead men into lust and apparently have no respect for myself, men have actually always respected me greatly. I have a lot of wonderful male friends, and married a good, pure hearted man.

…One would figure this would not be the case, if I was truly dressing so scandalously, using my body for bate, and making men lust after me.

In fact, feel more disrespected and objectified by the women here than I ever have in real life by a man.

THAT is ironic.

Not to start a conversation with you but the average man usually doesn’t outwardly disrespect a woman. He will just have some degrading stuff to say about women who he knows dresses immodestly when he is with his fellow pals when that person is missing.

Just letting you know because you seem to have a naive view of judging everything by your experience as being sole dictator of what is true.

Oh and think about this for a bit, all the people on this forum according to you, look at you and your form of dress disrespectfully. So not everyone who knows you technically speaking considers your dress respectful.

Again, I am just pointing out because you seem to some how exclude the people here when you talk about people who know you.

 

[Walking_Home]

Something to add to this:

2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. the person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.

2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized. It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."85 Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others. Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep’s clothing.86

2286 Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion.

Therefore, they are guilty of scandal who establish laws or social structures leading to the decline of morals and the corruption of religious practice, or to "social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible."87 This is also true of business leaders who make rules encouraging fraud, teachers who provoke their children to anger,88 or manipulators of public opinion who turn it away from moral values.

2287 Anyone who uses the power at his disposal in such a way that it leads others to do wrong becomes guilty of scandal and responsible for the evil that he has directly or indirectly encouraged. "Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come!"89

---

Depending on a person’s agenda – “Scandal” can be used to as a tool to cast a negative light on a person. I think I remember reading – some “Traditionalists” – using “scandal” --against our late Pope.

 

[passer_by]

---

Depending on a person’s agenda – “Scandal” can be used to as a tool to cast a negative light on a person. I think I remember reading – some “Traditionalists” – using “scandal” --against our late Pope.

So let me understand you, if the Pope was falsely accuse of scandal and scandal can be used as a tool to cast a negative light on a person, we don’t need to worry about scandal???

That must be some profound theology. Next up is probably going to be ““Sin” can be used to as a tool to cast a negative light on a person.” therefore Sin probably is an invalid point to consider in our actions.

 

[Debora123]

Not to start a conversation with you but the average man usually doesn’t outwardly disrespect a woman. He will just have some degrading stuff to say about women who he knows dresses immodestly when he is with his fellow pals when that person is missing.

Well, it’s a good thing I know my friends better than you know my friends. Therefore I think I may have a better shot of actually knowing of what type of things they would or would not do when I am missing.

Just letting you know because you seem to have a naive view of judging everything by your experience as being sole dictator of what is true.

Thanks, but I don’t have a naive view. I’ve grown up with men my whole life… I always get along with them better than girls since I was a kid.

Oh and think about this for a bit, all the people on this forum according to you, look at you and your form of dress disrespectfully. So not everyone who knows you technically speaking considers your dress respectful.

Again, I am just pointing out because you seem to some how exclude the people here when you talk about people who know you.

First of all, I didn’t say “ALL the people in this forum think I dress immodestly.” While I know there are many who do, I also know there are many who don’t.

Second, I wasn’t counting some of the people here as being people who actually know me. But if we count them as such, then I suppose you are most certainly correct.

 

[passer_by]

Really? Well that’s strange. I can’t remember the last time I went to a Catholic wedding in a Catholic Church where the Bride’s dress wasn’t strapless.

My wedding dress sure was, so were those of all my 5 bridesmaids.

…Now I get to sit here and wait for all the criticism thrown at my church and all the other church’s around the nation who have apparently “gone down hill.”

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/picture.php?albumid=1146&pictureid=9459

Is this really you? You look a little sad-angry-ish in this pic … kind of like you were expecting forum members to be browsing through and criticizing the dress on a public forum .

 

[Walking_Home]

**

Walking_Home:

It still shows that their strict clothing standards for women – does not deter the abuse of women and young girls.

It is even coming out – that some Amish communities here in the US – with the girls and women in “modest” long dresses – have skeletons in their closets. The sexual abuse of girls even by their own relatives.

**

You really don’t seem to understand the issue at all eh.

Having strict clothing rules BY THEM SELF is not going to solve the problem. As I said million times before, there are TWO PARTIES at fault.

The second party, MEN, have to be taught to behave appropriately toward women AS WELL.

But for you, it has to be EITHER WOMEN’s fault or MAN’s fault. The correct answer is

BOTH ARE AT FAULT!

So what needs to happen is Women need to dress properly and Men need to be more disciplined. They go together. If either one is missing, then society looks like the Western one.

---

Your condescending attitude – is really not helpful to you. The point is – that strict clothing for women – will not help – for the men need to make the change within themselves.

 

[Debora123]

Is this really you? You look a little sad-angry-ish in this pic … kind of like you were expecting forum members to be browsing through and criticizing the dress on a public forum .

I have to say, that is the first negative thing I’ve ever heard anyone say about any of my wedding pictures… Thank you.

Usually people are polite and say nice things, even if they secretly may think I look bad.

 

[passer_by]

---

Your condescending attitude – is really not helpful to you. The point is – that strict clothing for women – will not help – for the men need to make the change in within themselves.

Both changes are required. One without the other is failure. This is what the Church teaches.

If you want to disagree, you must provide good solid reason. So far your arguments have mostly been illogical.

Examples:-

“Women in countries with strict clothing still get abused so its not whats required”

Why is this fallacious?

Because it assumes that abuse is only caused by lustful men. It could be caused by multiple reasons. The church teaches that it can be caused by lustful men as well as immodest women.

 

[TrueLight]

Did the girls wear the shorts with heals specifically because they wanted men to lust after them and see them as nothing more than an object?

You seriously cannot tell the difference?

The only reason I’m not going to post a pic of the type of shorts I’m referring to is because 1) I’m sure it would be against forum rules and 2) it is not my goal to incite lust. However, if you want to see a pic privately, let me know.

Our part is to remember to treat them as the human beings they are, regardless of what they are wearing and why they are wearing it. Do you not agree?

This has nothing to do with treating someone like a human being. I looked at them and moved on. I didn’t stop to give them a dirty look or gawk.
Walking_Home;:

Whaddya gonna do? We start teaching – no**t to view another – with the mind of darkness. ** So even when – encountering girls/women like those you saw – lust would be less likely to immerge from the heart and mind.

Lol!

 

[passer_by]

I have to say, that is the first negative thing I’ve ever heard anyone say about any of my wedding pictures… Thank you.

Usually people are polite and say nice things, even if they secretly may think I look bad.

No problem. I hope you appreciate my honesty on this matter. As you say here, people usually secretly say bad things. Not outwardly.

But you don’t think you look a bit angry in that one?

Btw, you are the first person I met that shares their wedding photos on a public forum. You do know that these threads stay on forever right?

 

[TrueLight]

I have to say. Even though I grew up in the Baptist and Pentecostal Church, for the past 6 or so years, I was attending a Reformed church. Really nice people and great ministries, helping the poor etc. However, it is definitely an “I’m okay, you’re okay” type of church.

I am very surprised and a bit disappointed to find the same liberal, almost new-agey viewpoints in some of these threads.

 

[LilyM]

The ironic thing actually is that though a lot of you people on this forum think my clothes are very immodest and I thus lead men into lust and apparently have no respect for myself, men have actually always respected me greatly. I have a lot of wonderful male friends, and married a good, pure hearted man.

…One would figure this would not be the case, if I were truly dressing so scandalously, using my body for bate, and making men lust after me… as some here would say.

In fact, I feel more disrespected and objectified by the women here than I ever have in real life by a man.

THAT is ironic.

Have they ALWAYS respected you? You 100% sure of that? Certainly they might not be disrespectful to your face if they know you won’t stand for it, but all that shows is that they are cunning, not necessarily pure hearted …

My own experience is this - about 15 years ago when I was rather more full of myself, I flashed more flesh than I do now. I certainly attracted MORE men … but not nicer or more pure-hearted ones.

Not that all were terrible. really, just that I had to sort through a lot of toads to get to the princes. And some of the princes … well, sometimes turned out not to be so completely princely after all.

So flashing flesh is only something I’d do if I were after quantity of attention rather than quality. Just sayin’

 

[Debora123]

You seriously cannot tell the difference?

Well… no?

I can make educated guesses and assumptions, but doing so is not my place, and is contra productive because it would get me nowhere and I would never be able to know with 100% certainty anyway. I’d rather move on and let God be the judge of that.

This has nothing to do with treating someone like a human being. I looked at them and moved on. I didn’t stop to give them a dirty look or gawk.

Good! More people should do just that.