The Death of Pretty (an article on how many women want to be seen now)

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What I hate about these modesty threads, Debora, is that the threads become all about you and that’s not good because then the posts become very personal.

So I would suggest that maybe everyone should take a step back, including myself and either go back on topic, or keep the thread neutral as opposed to focused on one person.
 
Walking_Home said:
The fact – that in communities and societies where strict clothing is the norm --yet sexual sin still occurs --says the clothes do Not deter lust. The Church teaches – that no one can hold another accountable for one’s sin. Sin is our own personal choice.
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Haha did you think that simply re-iterating something makes it logically valid?

If its logically fallacious, it is fallacious.

All your example shows at best is that Clothes ALONE do not deter lust. It in no way shows that Clothes do not deter lust.

As for what the church teaches, I have made clear what it teaches. If someone lusts, the sin of lusts is not transferable. But if someone dresses immodestly, that sin is also not transferable. Both have to bear responsibility for TWO DIFFERENT sins.

Try to keep up with the discussion please and not forget what was said before.
 
LilyM said:
So are you presuming based on this that rape is MORE frequent in Muslim countries? Surely no-one has any justification to assume so simply because we can assume that they are underreported.

I am extremely dubious that anything happens in Saudi Arabia that is different than practices that can be found in the West. There is nothing new under the sun as far as sexual practices go.

The only question that remains then is one of frequency and public acceptance and even promotion. Individual incidents are not what I’m talking about - every country has its abnormal and horrific sex crimes.

Are there red light districts in Riyadh that are tourist havens for men from other parts of the country or even interntional tourists?

Multiple cable tv stations broadcasting an endless stream of home-grown and produced porn?

Home-produced pornographic magazines fairly easily available in the majority of newsagencies?

Advertisements for all manner of ‘adult services’ openly printed in the majority of Saudi papers? XXX shops freely advertising themselves as such in every suburb of every town of any size?
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I certainly would not know the true stats on rape in Muslim countries, who would? Even in the West rape is often not reported.

On Saudi, surely you in Australia know the truth of the hypocrisy, the double standards, what some Saudi men do but keep it just out of the country? Inside the country all may look whiter than white.
 
TrueLight said:
What I hate about these modesty threads, Debora, is that the threads become all about you and that’s not good because then the posts become very personal.

So I would suggest that maybe everyone should take a step back, including myself and either go back on topic, or keep the thread neutral as opposed to focused on one person.
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I agree. Somehow this thread has gotten to the level of Debora posting her wedding photos. I think that sort of thing is… well funny and good for joking around… but its also a sign that the discussion has seriously deteriorated.
 
passer_by said:
You did say that people would usually say you look good but say or think negative stuff in secret, no? I mean these are your words

“Usually people are polite and say nice things, even if they secretly may think I look bad”
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Yes, “even if they secretly MAY THINK I look bad.”

Not that they go and say bad things about me, as you said in your former post. 👍
 
Debora123 said:
Yes, “even if they secretly MAY THINK I look bad.”

Not that they go and say bad things about me, as you said in your former post. 👍
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Well secretly thinking bad things about you does count as disrespecting you… right :)?
 
TrueLight said:
What I hate about these modesty threads, Debora, is that the threads become all about you and that’s not good because then the posts become very personal.

So I would suggest that maybe everyone should take a step back, including myself and either go back on topic, or keep the thread neutral as opposed to focused on one person.
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Sounds good to me! 🙂

Though I think it is partially my fault that it happens, because I use my experiences as testimony to prove my point. 😦
 
Debora123 said:
Thank you for the compliments! 🙂

The only time I’ve ever heard a man complain about shoulders is on this forum anyway. And I know plenty of men.
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Interesting. I’ve got four older sisters, of various degrees of religion and irreligion, and from memory all of them at one time or another have decried the trend for strapless bridal gowns.

For some, obviously, it tends to be an aesthetic thing. And I think quite a lot of women are more flattered by at least a sheer short sleeve.

Not you - your arms are more than good enough for a strapless dress 🙂

Don’t know what the menfolk think, and frankly don’t really care. My dress is primarily about what God and I think, not so much about what men will approve or disapprove of.
 
Debora123 said:
Sounds good to me! 🙂

Though I think it is partially my fault that it happens, because I use my experiences as testimony to prove my point. 😦
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Exactly. Your experience is not very important and can be subjective.

What one must stick to is LOGIC, FACTS, SCRIPTURE, TEACHINGS, SCIENCE etc.
 
passer_by said:
Well secretly thinking bad things about you does count as disrespecting you… right :)?
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Not necessarily. If someone honestly thinks I look ugly, then that is what they honestly think. It is not disrespectful, it is a reality.
 
passer_by said:
I agree. Somehow this thread has gotten to the level of Debora posting her wedding photos. I think that sort of thing is… well funny and good for joking around… but its also a sign that the discussion has seriously deteriorated.
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Wow… thanks… I guess.
 
passer_by said:
**Haha did you think that simply re-iterating something makes it logically valid?
**
If its logically fallacious, it is fallacious.

All your example shows at best is that Clothes ALONE do not deter lust. It in no way shows that Clothes do not deter lust.

As for what the church teaches, I have made clear what it teaches. If someone lusts, the sin of lusts is not transferable. But if someone dresses immodestly, that sin is also not transferable. Both have to bear responsibility for TWO DIFFERENT sins.

Try to keep up with the discussion please and not forget what was said before.
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Again-- your condescending attitude --is not of help to you. Trying to raise yourself up – via diminishing another-- is not a good sign.
 
Walking_Home said:
Again-- your condescending attitude --is not of help to you. Trying to diminish another – to raise yourself up – is a sign of something lacking.
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And use of illogical argumentation and bringing up things that were answered before is not helping your cause either, right?
 
LilyM said:
Interesting. I’ve got four older sisters, of various degrees of religion and irreligion, and from memory all of them at one time or another have decried the trend for strapless bridal gowns.

For some, obviously, it tends to be an aesthetic thing. And I think quite a lot of women are more flattered by at least a sheer short sleeve.

Not you - your arms are more than good enough for a strapless dress 🙂

Don’t know what the menfolk think, and frankly don’t really care. My dress is primarily about what God and I think, not so much about what men will approve or disapprove of.
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I agree on the dress being about the bride herself and God. A bridal gown is usually a very special, intimate thing for a woman.
 
severus68 said:
I certainly would not know the true stats on rape in Muslim countries, who would? Even in the West rape is often not reported.

On Saudi, surely you in the US know the truth of the hypocrisy, the double standards, what some Saudi men do but keep it just out of the country? Inside the country all may look whiter than white.
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I’m Australian by the way, not American - but plenty of men here will go to places like Thailand to indulge themselves rather than risk getting caught out at home. I daresay American men do too. And we’re one of the supposedly ‘sexually liberated’ cultures :rolleyes:

So no surprise that Saudi men do also.

And the fact that so many of them feel that it is SO taboo that they cannot even do it in their own country - that there is that level of public disapproval and intolerance of sexual sin - still puts them a step ahead of us.

We can claim no sort of moral highground when we make it available on practically every street corner and when people become celebrities BECAUSE of who they are intimate with, or rumoured to be intimate with/how frequently they change partners/filming their sexual encounters and putting the film on the internet
 
Debora123 said:
Not necessarily. If someone honestly thinks I look ugly, then that is what they honestly think. It is not disrespectful, it is a reality.
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Well I am just saying that your friends might be thinking bad things about your form of dress in their secret musings i.e. in a way disrespectful to your dignity as a human being. But lets get over you and talk about society in general 🙂
 
passer_by said:
Well I am just saying that your friends might be thinking bad things about your form of dress in their secret musings i.e. in a way disrespectful to your dignity as a human being. **But lets get over you and talk about society in general **🙂
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Sounds good to me.
 
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