The denial of Hell-by Christians?

[Esdra]

Well it was pretty simple when HIS Father rejoiced and said My Son was lost but now he is found, He REPENTED, remember? He said he was sorry and would be happy to live as a hired hand the rest of his life. He as my Aunt used to say, was willing to sit on his blister.

He turned back to God when he confessed his sin, and expected nothing! Is that not what repenting is, admitting you were wrong, and being prepared to pay for the sin.

Yes, he repented. That’s great for him!

But BEFORE he lived without God, or at least tried to do so, until the famine came and he didn’t have any money anymore, nor food!

 

[rinnie]

I never said it was.

Good. Now we are getting somewhere. We are taught to go by the Early Teachers of the Church not the teachings of Humans.

Now you have to show me where you have the Keys to the Kingdom (which I still see the Pope is guarding) and how you have the Gift of the Holy Spirit to teach and intrepret scripture. The Pope has both, and of course his Bishops.

The bible said if someone beats another drum lets say, Don’t dance to the beat

 

[rinnie]

Yes, he repented. That’s great for him!

But BEFORE he lived without God, or at least tried to do so, until the famine came and he didn’t have any more anymore, nor food!

Does not matter, he still turmed back to God, repemted and admitted he was wrong. But you are correct when he turned away from God and turned to sin he indeed separated himself from God. But by his actions repented and was forgiven by his Father and reunited with our Father, God the Father. God really does make it quite simple for us. But we must rid ourself of our own selfish pride and sin and desires.

 

[rinnie]

You seem to avoid my question!

Protestants simply don’t believe in purgatory. Period.

So my question is: Do you think they won’t make it into heaven if their beloved once don’t pray for them when they are dead, as they don’t believe in Purgatory and in Praying for the Dead?!

I’m asking because of a person I know. It’s the granddad of a friend of mine. He was Lutheran and died in a Electricity-accident. (Very brutal death, IMO).
And I don’t think, as all his family is Lutheran, they will pray for him. As it is simply not the custom in the Lutheran tradition to do so.

Will he go to hell as noone is praying for him?

Again the original quote we are referring upon:

But they will believe when they get there. If they have to have the final cleansing, which most of us will, they will find out the Church teaching is correct. But just because they are Protestant and don’t believe does not the Catholic Prayers work for them also. How do you know they won’t get any prayers. I will pray for all of my Protestant bros,and sis’s. I do as a matter of fact everyday. So they do get prayers.

Unless you are saying a Catholic’s prayers won’t help the Protestants. and I know you better then that buddy, you would never say that.

What I am saying it does exist, and they will see that it does. The only way they will go to hell is if Jesus says so. But if he says they are in, and just need a final cleansing, rather they agree or not they will see. It exist’s alright. So for now the Catholics will have to help them out.

 

[Esdra]

Does not matter, he still turmed back to God, repemted and admitted he was wrong. But you are correct when he turned away from God and turned to sin he indeed separated himself from God. But by his actions repented and was forgiven by his Father and reunited with our Father, God the Father. God really does make it quite simple for us. But we must rid ourself of our own selfish pride and sin and desires.

Wow a post, I can 100% agree with you! I am astonished. (Remember our earlier conversations? When I was rather young here on CAF and didn’t know much about the Catholic Faith? )

That’s so great about our God. And this is the reason why I love to be a Christian!
No sin is too great that our Lord won’t forgive it us, if we sincerely repent!
He is and stays for ever our Loving Father in Heaven and will take us in His hands!

 

[rinnie]

To make it even easier. My husband’s Dad was protestant. He prays for the old man everyday. He is praying him out of purgatory. If he did not have to go to purgatory, better yet!! But better safe then sorry.

Prayers just help them is all.

 

[rinnie]

Wow a post, I can 100% agree with you! I am astonished. (Remember our earlier conversations? When I was rather young here on CAF and didn’t know much about the Catholic Faith? )

That’s so great about our God. And this is the reason why I love to be a Christian!
No sin is too great that our Lord won’t forgive it us, if we sincerely repent!
He is and stays for ever our Loving Father in Heaven and will take us in His hands!

Yes and I am very proud of You. You have come so so far in your understanding of the faith. Way to go my friend.

 

[SteveVH]

Julian0404,

How does the vision of Fatima fit with the teaching of Pope John Paul II?

Hey Anna, hope you are doing well.

I think what we have to take from Fatima is that hell is an absolutely frightening state of being. The vision is given so that human minds might grasp the horrendous state of those who would live in the absence of God. Just as none of us can grasp the wonder and beauty of living in the presence of God in heaven, we cannot grasp a state of being in which God’s presence is completley absent. The spiritual reality is equal to, if not worse than, being eternally consumed by flames of fire.

Pope John Paul, II recognized this, but as Christians, we are to be people of hope, not despair. We have no reason to despair if we give our lives to our Lord and accept His incredible gift of life. While the pains of hell are reason enough to change our lives, the love of our Lord and the reward of heaven is even a better reason. His mercy is greater than His justice. He also emphasizes that it is not God who imposes this punishment on us. It is a consequence of our choosing to turn our backs on Him and a complete refusal of His saving love. Anyway, that’s what I get from both messages.

Hope everything is well with you, Anna.

God bless.

Steve

 

[Nicea325]

Hey Anna, hope you are doing well.

I think what we have to take from Fatima is that hell is an absolutely frightening state of being. The vision is given so that human minds might grasp the horrendous state of those who would live in the absence of God. Just as none of us can grasp the wonder and beauty of living in the presence of God in heaven, we cannot grasp a state of being in which God’s presence is completley absent. The spiritual reality is equal to, if not worse than, being eternally consumed by flames of fire.

Pope John Paul, II recognized this, but as Christians, we are to be people of hope, not despair. We have no reason to despair if we give our lives to our Lord and accept His incredible gift of life. While the pains of hell are reason enough to change our lives, the love of our Lord and the reward of heaven is even a better reason. His mercy is greater than His justice. He also emphasizes that it is not God who imposes this punishment on us. It is a consequence of our choosing to turn our backs on Him and a complete refusal of His saving love. Anyway, that’s what I get from both messages.

Hope everything is well with you, Anna.

God bless.

Steve

But unfortunately my friend,many still believe they are going to Heaven regardless of the life they choose to live.

 

[Dokimas]

As a Director of Catechetical Ministry at a local Roman Catholic parish located at So.Cal., a particular topic has caught my attention: Hell. I find it amazing at the amount of parents who get offended when Hell is taught or mentioned. I have had numerous complaints by parents telling me why I allow my catechist to teach about Hell? My rebuttal: Since when has the RCC denied the existence of Hell?

My question to my non-Catholic brethen is simple:

Does your particular Christian tradition (Baptist,Methodist,etc) teach about Hell?

God Bless

The Bible teaches the existence of hell. I hope not to argue with God or disagree with Him on any issue.

 

[GaryTaylor]

There’s only three females in history who are Doctors of the Church. Here’s a quote by one.

“Let us see life as it really is, It is a moment between two eternities…” St. Thérèse Lisieux

And with Her you see the idea of not to dwell on it, but do see it. This life is a drop of water in the ocean of time.

God Bless Anna.

 

[RyanBlack]

I missed it, could you point it out one more time, the scripture that says we all get in! Thanks.

Here are some more passages from Holy Scripture that support universal salvation.

“Then as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men.” Romans 5:18

“For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.” 1 Corinthians 15:22

“For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.” Colossians 1:19-29

 

[RyanBlack]

Good. Now we are getting somewhere. We are taught to go by the Early Teachers of the Church not the teachings of Humans.

Now you have to show me where you have the Keys to the Kingdom (which I still see the Pope is guarding) and how you have the Gift of the Holy Spirit to teach and intrepret scripture. The Pope has both, and of course his Bishops.

The bible said if someone beats another drum lets say, Don’t dance to the beat

And some of those who have taught universal salvation were bishops and early teachers of the Church. It seems to me that a reading of Romans 5, 1 Corinthians 15, and Colossians 1 shows that one of those early teachers of the Church who taught the possibility of universal salvation was St. Paul the Apostle.

 

[RyanBlack]

So in other words,that is your own opinion-correct?

I never once have represented this as being official teaching of the Catholic Church. It is my own opinion. And the opinion of some of the saints, bishops, Fathers of the Church, and, it seems to me, St. Paul the Apostle.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I never once have represented this as being official teaching of the Catholic Church. It is my own opinion. And the opinion of some of the saints, bishops, Fathers of the Church, and, it seems to me, St. Paul the Apostle.

When you are saying Universal Salvation. What post here are you referring to? I’m not sure I understand what your saying bro. Or I missed it.

 

[Nicea325]

I never once have represented this as being official teaching of the Catholic Church. It is my own opinion. And the opinion of some of the saints, bishops, Fathers of the Church, and, it seems to me, St. Paul the Apostle.

And that is okay,you, I and everyone can provide an opinion. However, I am skeptical of your position that some saints,church fathers and especially St.Paul agree with your position. Care to provide historical and scripture supporting your claims?

Peace.

 

[RyanBlack]

Good. Now we are getting somewhere. We are taught to go by the Early Teachers of the Church not the teachings of Humans.

Now you have to show me where you have the Keys to the Kingdom (which I still see the Pope is guarding) and how you have the Gift of the Holy Spirit to teach and intrepret scripture. The Pope has both, and of course his Bishops.

The bible said if someone beats another drum lets say, Don’t dance to the beat

I do not have the Keys to the Kingdom (and have never claimed to). On the other hand, you don’t have the Keys to the Kingdom either. Furthermore, I do not believe that the Holy Spirit enlightens only the Pope and other bishops to read and understand Holy Scripture.

When you say “his Bishops,” to whom does the pronoun “his” refer? I hope I am wrong ,but it seems to me that it refers to the Pope. They are not, any more than the Church is the Pope’s Church. The Church and her ministers belong to Christ our Lord, not the Pope.

 

[RyanBlack]

And that is okay,you, I and everyone can provide an opinion. However, I am skeptical of your position that some saints,church fathers and especially St.Paul agree with your position. Care to provide historical and scripture supporting your claims?

Peace.

Read the verses I’ve quoted (Romans 5:18, 1 Corinthians 15:22, and Colossians 1:19-20. As to what I’ve said about saints and Church Fathers, it is well known that both St. Gregory of Nazianzus and St. Gregory of Nyssa (both were bishops, both were saints, both were Fathers of the Church) tended towards universal salvation. As I stated before in a previous post, I don’t mean to sound intellectually snobbish, but I’m not just making up these claims about St. Gregory of Nyssa and St. Gregory of Nazianzus. I have a Master of Divinity and a Master of Theology in Historical Theology. Of course, just because these saints and Church Fathers made these claims doesn’t prove that they are true. My point is that my position is not mine alone and that before you go condemning those who currently hold this position, realize that you need to condemn some saints, bishops, and Church Fathers along with them.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Read the verses I’ve quoted (Romans 5:18, 1 Corinthians 15:22, and Colossians 1:19-20. As to what I’ve said about saints and Church Fathers, it is well known that both St. Gregory of Nazianzus and St. Gregory of Nyssa (both were bishops, both were saints, both were Fathers of the Church) tended towards universal salvation. As I stated before in a previous post, I don’t mean to sound intellectually snobbish, but I’m not just making up these claims about St. Gregory of Nyssa and St. Gregory of Nazianzus. I have a Master of Divinity and a Master of Theology in Historical Theology. Of course, just because these saints and Church Fathers made these claims doesn’t prove that they are true. My point is that my position is not mine alone and that before you go condemning those who currently hold this position, realize that you need to condemn some saints, bishops, and Church Fathers along with them.

5;18 Romans is referrence to the disobediance of Adam and Eve, which is resolved by the obediance of Jesus Christ

Corinthians is the same concept by Paul, and this a common thread in many of Pauls letters.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I understand Paul and he is one of my favorite Apostles. Yet when we talk Eternal Salvation we should really Quote the words of “Jesus Christ.”

John 6:44-51

John 6:27

John 6:53-58

Heres just a couple to start with. Are you familiar with these?