The Devil is in the Catholic Church

[Jared123]

This is ridiculous! Since when does the Catholic Church endorse women being second class people?! I wouldn’t describe a diocese as particularly orthodox ordevout just b/c they don’t allow female alter servers. sheesh…

It was standard practice of the Catholic Church to only have altar boys until very recent times (early 1990’2). So let me ask you, was the Catholic Church endorsing women as being second class people before allowing altar girls? Not at all. Not allowing altar girls has nothing to do with the diginity of women. It has everything to do vocations to the priesthood. The proof is in the pudding and one doesn’t have to look much farther than the number of vocations to the priesthood nationwide. Have they increased since allowing girls on the altar or have they declined?
Of course there are other reasons for the declining number but this is one of them.

 

[Jared123]

Okay… you’ve got two examples…

Why don’t you come visit my office? I don’t know of ONE of the working mothers here (10 women off the top of my head… maybe more?) who hasn’t mentioned to me that they’d rather be home with their kids.

So I beg to differ.

I think thats wonderful. Now I would encourage you and others in your office to find a way to stay at home with your children. Maybe you could work out of your house, I know of several who trascript for doctors on their computers so that they can stay at home with their children. Sale items on ebay, I know of one person thats making $40,000 a year from ebay. Where there’s a will there’s a way!

 

[mrsfrazier]

It was standard practice of the Catholic Church to only have altar boys until very recent times (early 1990’2). So let me ask you, was the Catholic Church endorsing women as being second class people before allowing altar girls? Not at all. Not allowing altar girls has nothing to do with the diginity of women. It has everything to do vocations to the priesthood. The proof is in the pudding and one doesn’t have to look much farther than the number of vocations to the priesthood nationwide. Have they increased since allowing girls on the altar or have they declined?
Of course there are other reasons for the declining number but this is one of them.

The post I referred to connected girls being altar servers with the diocese being orthodox. There is no connection.

I would be inetersted to know why they would cause a decline in vocations to the priesthood? Female altar servers don’t deter or prevent males from being altar servers.

 

[actorgirl]

Maybe you could work out of your house,

Not saying that can’t be done, but I can barely get a load of laundry done and I only have a one year old.

I feel very blessed that I can stay home with my baby. My husband teaches at Boys Town. And I pick up a few shifts at Disney doing improv and other acting gigs here and there. But again, I just don’t feel the blanket statement of one income is always enough.

(and wanting some adult interaction is NOT a bad thing)

 

[Jared123]

The post I referred to connected girls being altar servers with the diocese being orthodox. There is no connection.

I would be inetersted to know why they would cause a decline in vocations to the priesthood? Female altar servers don’t deter or prevent males from being altar servers.

Why do altar girls cause a decline in vocations? A girl is never going to become a Catholic Priest. When a girl is serving mass she is taking away a spot for a young boy/man on the altar. This close interaction with priest is something that many present day priest have mentioned as a reason why they wanted to become a priest themselves.
I have been parishes around the country and I often times see more girls on the altar serving mass than boys. Funny thing about boys, if they see girls doing someting then they don’t want to do it. If boys in a parish see girls serving mass do you think they will want to do that? Maybe some will, but many will say I don’t want to do that job, let the girls do it.
Take for example my parish. We have anywhee from 5-8 boys serving on the altar at mass. These boys will range in age from elementary school to seniors in high school. Each boy in the elementary school does his turn serving mass. The boys totally look forward to serving mass. So each Catholic boy at sometime is going to be on the altar serving mass and talking with the priest before and after mass. Just maybe that boy will hear his vocation calling him. If that spot is taken by a girl, which in many locations this is the case then, that boy may never recognize his vocation.
We currently have 2 young men in the seminary to become a priest. One of them worked for me this summer and told me that he knew he had a vocation to the priesthood at an early age due to serving mass and being around a couple of awesome priest.
Let me state this again, not having altar girls doesn’t mean that we are male shovinest pigs. It means that we want vocations to the preisthood. What person is honored above all others but below Jesus Christ in the Catholic Church?

 

[Em_in_FL]

TWe currently have 2 young men in the seminary to become a priest. One of them worked for me this summer and told me that he knew he had a vocation to the priesthood at an early age due to serving mass and being around a couple of awesome priest.
Let me state this again, not having altar girls doesn’t mean that we are male shovinest pigs. It means that we want vocations to the preisthood. What person is honored above all others but below Jesus Christ in the Catholic Church?

I don’t typically pay attention to this issue because it just doesn’t bother me…
But at my parish we also have 2 young men in the seminary (maybe more actually)… but the majority of the alter servers are girls…
I don’t see the correlation at my parish at least…

 

[Jared123]

I don’t typically pay attention to this issue because it just doesn’t bother me…
But at my parish we also have 2 young men in the seminary (maybe more actually)… but the majority of the alter servers are girls…
I don’t see the correlation at my parish at least…

That’s wonderful for your parish, but would have to say that isn’t the norm. I would like to know how many young men your diocese has in the seminary total? What is the ratio of Catholics to Priest in you diocese?
The vocation shortage across the nation isn’t my imagination but is a real issue in many dioceses.
This isn’t due totally to altar girls, but will maintain that it does play a part.
This thread isn’t about altar girls…there is about two or three on this issue in other forums at all times. So back to small Catholic families.

 

[sacredcello]

Yes, small families.

Take the Holy Family of Nazareth for an example. Do you think they set a bad example by leading a chaste lifestyle instead of producing a large family?

 

[SeekerJen]

Yes, small families.

Take the Holy Family of Nazareth for an example. Do you think they set a bad example by leading a chaste lifestyle instead of producing a large family?

I keep forgetting that Jesus and John the Baptist were only children. I guess being an only child isn’t so bad after all.

 

[sacredcello]

I know of a couple that has 6 children and lives off of a teacher income, and in the state of Nebraska we are talking not more than $40,000. I know of another couple that has four children and lives off of one salary. He works at a packing plant and makes no more than $35,000. Living on one salary can be done, its just that the average Amercian isn’t going to cut coupons, buy thrift shop clothes, and drive old cars. Todays cultures isn’t like what my parents grew up in. It was the standard for the women to stay at home raise the children. They also grew up with little money. I will ask all of you, during which times was our country morally healthier, now or back in the 1950’s?

That might be possible in Nebraska.

But, in California, where my family lives, it is a different story. My brother, for example, has lived in a 1 bedroom apartment for 10 years as a single person. He is quite frugal and lives decently (not flashy) on a modest income (I think he makes $40,000 - $50,000 in a management position). Every time he goes to apply for a mortgage for a small 1 bedroom condo, he is turned down, even though he has very good credit. He doesn’t make enough money. He determined that the only way he would be able to purchase a small condo would be if he had a wife who works. So, this is exactly what he did — got married! He and his wife are searching now for that condo! They are not Catholic, but if they were, I presume you would propose that they stick it out in that 1 bedroom apt. for the duration of their lives and have 6 children.

I’ve seen the effects of this on my ex-husband and it is not healthy.

I think the Holy Family (who were poor, simple people) had the right idea. Small families are obviously in alignment with God’s will or He would have called Mary and Joseph to produce offspring.

 

[Jared123]

That might be possible in Nebraska.

.

Why don’t you move to Nebraska? Little to no crime, we don’t even lock the doors on our house, orthodox Catholic church in each town, affordable Catholics schools, $500 a year for elementary school, and $1000 a year for High school, and I live 30 miles from Omaha (population 404,000) and 30 miles from Lincoln (population 235,000). There are plenty of high paying professional jobs.

 

[Caesar]

The devil has been trying to destroy the Church since Day One. One way he does this is to try to decrease the number of Catholics and one way of doing that is thorugh contraception. Why are so many Catholics contracepting and having such small families these days?
A lot of Catholics are so worldly - they just seem to live like everyone else… (materialistic, etc…).
The devil is “protestan-tizing” the Catholic Church…
Do you agree?? Would like to hear testimonies… etc…

Yes! Did not Paul VI say that the smoke of Satan had entered the Church?

You are right one

 

[maria29]

My husband and I both have to work due to 3 degrees (me BA in Radio/TV and my husband a masters in Theology and BS in Molecular Biology) I cannot afford to stay home unless we didn’t want to have housing, clothing or food.

We can’t afford to have another child because of daycare costs which would kill us. I really hate this threads where people assume that just because two parents are working it means that they must be living in excess. Housing starts at $230,000 for a small home here.

The Catholic Church requires that we think about all of future children when we are thinking about having more. I have a moral obligation to make sure that I can provide the bare essentials for each child I bring into the world.

 

[Jared123]

I have an honest question for all of you out there. I realize that living in California, New York, and other parts of the country cost an arm and a leg to live. So at what point does a person say, “this is crazy, why don’t we move somewhere that we can live and raise a large Catholic family” if that is what they would like to do. I realize that some can’t move due to family, or a job, even though there are jobs throughout the country.
As I stated above, we can live here in Nebraska on a fraction of what it cost to live in California. In fact I know of a family who moved here to Nebraska from California. They lived in a modest home in Cailfornia but were able to sale that home and build a very large house in Nebraska plus owning land.
Its just seems that I keep reading all these stories about how much each person has to work and they can’t have anymore children…so does a person sacrifice having more children to keep living in a location that cost way to much to live or do you move??? I would love to read some thoughts on this.
I moved to Nebraska 10 years ago from another location in the midwest. I would never live anywhere else and would even go as far as saying that if I lost my job, I would look for another one in a different field if I had to just to stay here. I realize there are other locations besides Nebraska where one can find this, its just that I found it here.

 

[maria29]

I have an honest question for all of you out there. I realize that living in California, New York, and other parts of the country cost an arm and a leg to live. So at what point does a person say, “this is crazy, why don’t we move somewhere that we can live and raise a large Catholic family” if that is what they would like to do. I realize that some can’t move due to family, or a job, even though there are jobs throughout the country.
As I stated above, we can live here in Nebraska on a fraction of what it cost to live in California. In fact I know of a family who moved here to Nebraska from California. They lived in a modest home in Cailfornia but were able to sale that home and build a very large house in Nebraska plus owning land.
Its just seems that I keep reading all these stories about how much each person has to work and they can’t have anymore children…so does a person sacrifice having more children to keep living in a location that cost way to much to live or do you move??? I would love to read some thoughts on this.
I moved to Nebraska 10 years ago from another location in the midwest. I would never live anywhere else and would even go as far as saying that if I lost my job, I would look for another one in a different field if I had to just to stay here. I realize there are other locations besides Nebraska where one can find this, its just that I found it here.

Even moving to Nebreska, wouldn’t help us because then my husband would make even less out there. My husband felt called to get a Masters in Theology and thats fine, but the jobs out there for it pay less than $35,000 a year. We have almost 1700 worth of bills of month which includes a car payment, student loans (the majority of it) and our utilities. This amount does not include the rent we pay as well.

We don’t live in New York or California, we live in Pennsylvannia. Would we love another child, of course, but we have to be realistic it about it as well and realize that it wouldn’t be responsible of us to have a child right now. Does that mean we don’t trust in God? Of course not, but we know God will show us when the time is right and not try to force his hand.

 

[Jared123]

Even moving to Nebreska, wouldn’t help us because then my husband would make even less out there. My husband felt called to get a Masters in Theology and thats fine, but the jobs out there for it pay less than $35,000 a year. We have almost 1700 worth of bills of month which includes a car payment, student loans (the majority of it) and our utilities. This amount does not include the rent we pay as well.

We don’t live in New York or California, we live in Pennsylvannia. Would we love another child, of course, but we have to be realistic it about it as well and realize that it wouldn’t be responsible of us to have a child right now. Does that mean we don’t trust in God? Of course not, but we know God will show us when the time is right and not try to force his hand.

Where did your husband get his masters in Theology from?

 

[maria29]

Where did your husband get his masters in Theology from?

Franciscan University, hence the thousands of dollars of debt since they have no financial aid

 

[Jared123]

Franciscan University, hence the thousands of dollars of debt since they have no financial aid

Great school, my wife graduated from there with a theology degree, and my father inlaw teachers there. I know a person who teaches theology for the Archdiocese of Omaha at a Catholic High School and his wife stays at home. I believe they have 4-5 children. He graduated from the University of Dallas. Its tough but they find some way to do it.

 

[sacredcello]

Why don’t you move to Nebraska? Little to no crime, we don’t even lock the doors on our house, orthodox Catholic church in each town, affordable Catholics schools, $500 a year for elementary school, and $1000 a year for High school, and I live 30 miles from Omaha (population 404,000) and 30 miles from Lincoln (population 235,000). There are plenty of high paying professional jobs.

I am a professional musician and do quite well here in California as a freelancer. The last time the Omaha Symphony had an audition for the cello section was 9 years ago, so who knows when the next will be?

I have thought about moving somewhere that is more friendly to raising a family (though I am not currently married), but I would not be able to pay my bills unless I had a substantial job already lined up. Those prized positions in symphony orchestras are hard to come by. It is not pride that would keep me from moving somewhere and earning less money; it just simply would not be possible to pay my student loan bills if I earned only a fraction of what I make here.

I am also happy here.

I’m glad Nebraska works for you, though!

 

[Em_in_FL]

There are several reasons why a family would choose to stay where they are and not move to the mid-west…

Family - don’t we have somewhat of a obligation to care for our aging parents and raise our children around family?

Jobs - we’re all gifted in different ways. You aren’t going to find the same number of high tech jobs in Nebraska as you are in California, for example. God Himself provides us with our unique gifts… are we suppossed to throw those away because the only jobs are in expensive areas?

Just to list a couple… but I’ve got to race off to work now…