The Devil is in the Catholic Church

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blacktiger057 said:
Family size and contraception are a matter of personal choice. I don’t think there is anything wrong using condoms etc. My reasons are as follows:
  1. Contraceptives are quite useful for teenagers, as it is in their very instinct to have sex. Most aren’t ready for children. Sex is not always about trying to have a baby…it can also be an instinct that we need to get a fuller experience of life.
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You are correct that the conjugal act is not oriented only towards procreation. Sex also strengthens the bond between husband and wife, and is designed to bring them closer to one another. Certainly it is to be enjoyed.

However, the Catholic Church expressly forbids the use of contraception. This is explicit in Humanae Vitae, and you may also read relevant sections of the Catechism.

Frankly, your argument about allowing teenagers to follow their “instinct” is laughable. Most teenagers are not married, and premarital sex is certainly against Church teachings. Furthermore, not everything that we do instinctively is good. You correctly observe that most teenagers today are not ready for children. I would like to add that if they are not married, they are also not ready for the conjugal act.
Also, to the original poster, it is far too convenient to blame something we don’t agree with on the devil. Some reasons you think it is evil would be nice.
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That an act is condemned by the Church should be enough for a Catholic to know that it is evil. Further curiosity can be satisfied by reading relevant encyclicals and other documents.
 
sacredcello said:
I suppose it is that I am fortunate enough to be an artist for a living, and I see God as an artist in creating each human being. Each one is so special. But, if one were to become a mother to 30 children, it would be difficult (perhaps not impossible) for even one of them to receive the kind of education that is necessary to becoming an artist in this world, whether it be visual, musical, dance, etc. True, God does not call each of us to the arts professionally speaking, but how unfair it would be to those 30 children, IMHO.

Are you familiar with the Suzuki method? It requires a parent to practice a musical instrument with their child every day. In general this is at least one hour a day in the beginning. If one had 30… well, you do the math.
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If one had a child every single year–the oldest would be 30…haha I would hope they would be on their own–doing the Suzuki method with their own children by then–…😛
 
blacktiger057 said:
Family size and contraception are a matter of personal choice. I don’t think there is anything wrong using condoms etc. My reasons are as follows:
  1. Contraceptives are quite useful for teenagers, as it is in their very instinct to have sex. Most aren’t ready for children. Sex is not always about trying to have a baby…it can also be an instinct that we need to get a fuller experience of life.
  2. Some families might not be able to support another child. Just because you can’t have any more children(financially) and then you can’t have sex anymore is not something most people would do.
  3. If there werent contraceptives and abortions were outlawed, people would have families around the size of ten. This would most probably result in over population and our resources would be depleted. So they help keep balance in the world.
Also, to the original poster, it is far too convenient to blame something we don’t agree with on the devil. Some reasons you think it is evil would be nice.
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GOOD GRIEF!!!

Where do we start? :rolleyes:
 
blacktiger057 said:
Family size and contraception are a matter of personal choice. I don’t think there is anything wrong using condoms etc. My reasons are as follows:
  1. Contraceptives are quite useful for teenagers, as it is in their very instinct to have sex. Most aren’t ready for children. Sex is not always about trying to have a baby…it can also be an instinct that we need to get a fuller experience of life.
  2. Some families might not be able to support another child. Just because you can’t have any more children(financially) and then you can’t have sex anymore is not something most people would do.
  3. If there werent contraceptives and abortions were outlawed, people would have families around the size of ten. This would most probably result in over population and our resources would be depleted. So they help keep balance in the world.
Also, to the original poster, it is far too convenient to blame something we don’t agree with on the devil. Some reasons you think it is evil would be nice.
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hi blacktiger;

You’re right–sex is not about ‘trying’ to have a baby always–but sex is how babies are made, as we both know–so if one is not ready for the consequences of sex (aka responsibility) it might be better (best) if he/she abstained. When two people are married, sex becomes more than physical, as illustrated in your signature–it becomes a union between two people who are committed to one another, for hopefully, a life time. I think it’s quite dangerous to tell kids that using contraception is ok, because it degrades the beauty of sex. It isn’t just about babies, and std’s…it’s about relating to one another in a dignified way. Dating doesn’t have to culminate in sex, and by not at least attempting to teach kids these basic principles, we as a society, are setting them up for failure…failure before and during marriage. Just my thoughts.
 
whatevergirl said:
If one had a child every single year–the oldest would be 30…haha I would hope they would be on their own–doing the Suzuki method with their own children by then–…😛
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Yes, and that would leave 18 at home. If you spent an hour a day with each one of them, that would leave six hours to eat, sleep, bathe, clean the house, study scripture, pray. It doesn’t sound very healthy to me, but far be it from to be judge anyone else’s choices.
 
blacktiger-

Here’s a solid reason:

“[Contraception]… contradicts the full truth of the sexual act as the proper expression of conjugal love,”
Pope John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae
 
sacredcello said:
Yes, and that would leave 18 at home. If you spent an hour a day with each one of them, that would leave six hours to eat, sleep, bathe, clean the house, study scripture, pray. It doesn’t sound very healthy to me, but far be it from to be judge anyone else’s choices.
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But, do we know for sure this person we are speaking of had one child per year? My parents both came from large families–my mother was one of 14 kids…and there were more than 1 year apart between each of them.
 
sacredcello said:
Yes, and that would leave 18 at home. If you spent an hour a day with each one of them, that would leave six hours to eat, sleep, bathe, clean the house, study scripture, pray. It doesn’t sound very healthy to me, but far be it from to be judge anyone else’s choices.
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18 at home of which at least the first 4 or 5 would not really be interested in sitting for an hour a day playing an instrument with their mother…possibly even the 6th or 7th. The 6th or 7th may sit for about 30 minutes each, which would leave about 11 others of which the last 5 or 6 may not really need their parent to sit with them for an hour a day, since they most likely would be able to and enjoy playing on their own, which leaves the middle 5. So now we are down to about 5 hours a day which leaves a good 19 hours of the day to do whatever else needs to get done!
 
luvmykids said:
18 at home of which at least the first 4 or 5 would not really be interested in sitting for an hour a day playing an instrument with their mother…possibly even the 6th or 7th. The 6th or 7th may sit for about 30 minutes each, which would leave about 11 others of which the last 5 or 6 may not really need their parent to sit with them for an hour a day, since they most likely would be able to and enjoy playing on their own, which leaves the middle 5. So now we are down to about 5 hours a day which leaves a good 19 hours of the day to do whatever else needs to get done!
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Math at its best!👍 😃
 
Excuse me for asking, but if I am deliberately choosing not to get married and therefore not having children, does that mean I am an instrument of the devil?
 
Excuse me for asking, but if I am deliberately choosing not to get married and therefore not having children, does that mean I am an instrument of the devil?
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Surely not! The consecrated single life is a vocation.
 
luvmykids said:
18 at home of which at least the first 4 or 5 would not really be interested in sitting for an hour a day playing an instrument with their mother…possibly even the 6th or 7th. The 6th or 7th may sit for about 30 minutes each, which would leave about 11 others of which the last 5 or 6 may not really need their parent to sit with them for an hour a day, since they most likely would be able to and enjoy playing on their own, which leaves the middle 5. So now we are down to about 5 hours a day which leaves a good 19 hours of the day to do whatever else needs to get done!
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Right, except that, in addition to the daily practice, each and every one of those children would need to be driven to twice weekly lessons in which the parent would need to take notes. Then, there are the recitals and orchestra concerts. So, perhaps the older children could be trusted to look after the babies at home (change their diapers, make sure they don’t hurt themselves, etc.) while Mom is away at the private lessons? Or perhaps you have an RV in which all 18 kids can pile in and make the rounds of lessons together.

Most of my colleagues began their lessons at the age of four, so that adds another couple of hours to your daily schedule.

Of course, all of this assumes that you have a husband who makes a pretty high salary and you do not have to work to pay off any student loans, etc.
 
Joannm said:
I had three kids. I had a very difficult time raising them with little support from anyone aside from my husband. Having a child with a learning disability that schools refused to accept, which led to drug use. I thank God that he has straightened himself out, but if I had a house full of kids I think I would have been the one on drugs after dealing with all the grief and heartache and trouble this kid caused us and how it affected his sisters. Yes I worked, but only during school hours. It was what kept me sane.
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I am sorry that you had a hard time with your son. Praise God that things have turned around for the better.

You don’t need to apologize for having had a job while raising children. The Church has already lifted to sainthood a working mother and pro-life witness, St. Gianna Beretta Molla. She was a pediatrician and mother of four children. It makes me so happy, because I, too, would like to continue in my vocation after I marry and have children. The Church does not condemn it.
 
distracted said:
The devil has been trying to destroy the Church since Day One. One way he does this is to try to decrease the number of Catholics and one way of doing that is thorugh contraception. Why are so many Catholics contracepting and having such small families these days?
A lot of Catholics are so worldly - they just seem to live like everyone else… (materialistic, etc…).
The devil is “protestan-tizing” the Catholic Church… :mad:
Do you agree?? Would like to hear testimonies… etc…
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I challenge you guys to go one day submitting posts WITHOUT mentioning contraception! You all remind me of my grandmother who is a raging Democrat. Everyday she whines and complains about how much she HATES Rush Limbaugh, yet, guess who tunes into him everyday religiously!..grandma! You guys need to realize that contraception is not the one end-all item that you can pin all the evils of the world on! EWTN spends 24 hours a day talking about contraception. Here’s an idea…why don’t we discuss other issues? I don’t know…stress, loving people we hate, how to forgive, how to overcome resentment, not being judgemental, growing closer to Christ, helping the poor, loving our neighbor, etc.? In Saudi Arabia, the Muslims pass by a giant stone that they believe to be the devil during their Hajj pilgrimage. They stand there stoning this object on and on as the focus of everything bad in the world. For you folks, birth control pills and condoms are your daily obsession. Man, get a life!
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
I challenge you guys to go one day submitting posts WITHOUT mentioning contraception! You all remind me of my grandmother who is a raging Democrat. Everyday she whines and complains about how much she HATES Rush Limbaugh, yet, guess who tunes into him everyday religiously!..grandma! You guys need to realize that contraception is not the one end-all item that you can pin all the evils of the world on! EWTN spends 24 hours a day talking about contraception. Here’s an idea…why don’t we discuss other issues? I don’t know…stress, loving people we hate, how to forgive, how to overcome resentment, not being judgemental, growing closer to Christ, helping the poor, loving our neighbor, etc.? In Saudi Arabia, the Muslims pass by a giant stone that they believe to be the devil during their Hajj pilgrimage. They stand there stoning this object on and on as the focus of everything bad in the world. For you folks, birth control pills and condoms are your daily obsession. Man, get a life!
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Hey, great suggestions to help the poor, love one’s neighbor, etc.

As a convert to the Catholic faith, my understanding of what it means to help the poor and love my neighbor has undergone a great transformation. I used to be a liberal, maybe not as radical as your Grandma, but, anyway, in those days my idea of helping the poor and loving my neighbor was to pass out more condoms so that the poor would not overpopulate and cause more suffering for themselves and others. Now, largely due to hearing thoughtful discussions on EWTN by the likes of Kimberly and Scott Hahn, I understand that my previous attitude was anything but compassionate and loving toward my neighbor. The change is a positive one, I believe, and has been reflected in my giving of my time and treasure to the poor.

My point is that these forums which discuss issues such as contraception vs. Natural Family Planning can bring about great change and a more loving attitude. Jesus calls us to become more loving people. Sometimes the curriculum in our schools, etc., actually hinders us in this, so these forums and EWTN, etc. can be very helpful, as they have been for me.

Incidentally, I believe the devil is real, not just metaphorical. However, I am not a Muslim, so I don’t know about their practice of stoning objects, etc.
 
goofyjim said:
Who is saying it is consecrated? I just live the single life with no intention of getting married. I haven’t necessarily consecrated it to anyone.
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Hi jim;👋

It is a virtue like marriage, to remain chaste in our single life…if you choose to have sex before marriage–that would not be considered living a truly ‘Godly’ single life. Hope that makes sense:)
 
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