The Devil's Battle Plan

[Bob_Crowley]

Evidence. There’s no evidence for your god or for Thor or any other god, but there’s plenty of evidence for other beliefs (like, for example, that the earth is a spheroid shap).

Well, there’s not evidence for god claims. I suppose it’s possible that the devil is hiding evidence from me, but if that’s the case, there’s still no reason to believe.

I don’t suppose you’ve noticed the human race is never really allowed to settle down, so to speak. Let’s take the last century for example. The turn of the 20th century was marked by European colonialism, and hopes for a humanistic society. Along comes World War I, a direct result of European colonialism. Twenty million dead young men later, we have a brief 1920’s boom (depending where you lived of course) followed by a Great Depression.

No sooner is humanity getting over that, when Hitler starts World War II, although it could be argued Japan started it when it invaded China. World War II is finished, ending with the nuclear bomb, and fifty millon dead.

Then the the Cold War starts.

So now there are millions more dead in the Gulags, and a number of proxy wars, notably Korea and Vietnam, and the world heaves a sigh of relief when the wall comes down.

But no sooner does the Wall come down than we have a first Gulf War, a Balkans conflict, and then 9/11. Along comes the resurgence of Islam, and fundamentalist Islamic terrorism. Moreover history has been so designed as to give control of most of the oil to the Islamic nations of the Midde East, Indonesia and Borneo.

Meanwhile the human race rushes pell mell into a frenzy of abortions, destroying it’s own kind by the million.

I don’t suppose you see any evidence of a malignant intelligence at work, working out in advance what its next destructive ideologcial step will be, hostile to the human race, and dedicated to its destruction?

The devil exists all right. And you don’t want to fall into his hands.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

AntiTheist

Well, there’s not evidence for god claims. I suppose it’s possible that the devil is hiding evidence from me, but if that’s the case, there’s still no reason to believe.

If it is the case, why would there still be no reason to believe?

You wouldn’t mind being duped by the devil?

 

[Jordan9]

R Daneel…interesting points. I too have wondered why the Devil simply doesn’t use his free will and renovate hell…turn it into a fantastic place of pure hedonistic bliss.

Again, using his free will, I’m not sure why the Devil doesn’t get his own youtube channel, cable channel, radio program and take out adds in newspapers and thus be better positioned to sell the merits of his kingdom to the masses.

What better way to recruit more souls than to make hell a desirable locale and get the word out through mediums of media?!

Because the Devil isn’t a hedonist. In reality, he’s probably a bit prudish. Remember, it wasn’t “sex drugs, and rock and roll” that made the Devil fall; it was pride. Actually, according to Islamic tradition, Satan refused to bow before Adam and that was his crime.

The Devil, more likely than not, views humans as fickle and disgusting creatures. He’s probably baffled why someone as holy and mighty as God would love us. To Satan, we don’t deserve salvation or love or redemption, because, to him, we’re beyond it.

So, the Devil probably looks at Hedonists and has his worldview vindicated. He sees us being violent, sexually-promiscuous, hateful, and so forth and says, “Ha! See? They’re maggots!”

Just because the Devil may use these temptations to destroy us, doesn’t mean he himself delightfully engages in them. In fact, it is probably the opposite. Apart from God, he’s probably got the biggest aversion to them.

Because that’s the thing. Jesus healed people with dirt and spit. He hung out with the poor, the prostitutes, the fishermen. Our God is the God of the downtrodden. Satan is the “god” of Caesar, of Molech, of Mammon; of prideful boasting. Our God is more subtle than that.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

If I were the Devil…

I would form a legion of athesits whose task was to disprove religion entirely. Moral relativism, anti-Christianity, the whole 9 yards.

To really be clever, and let’s give the devil his due, he’s VERY cunning, I would make sure that my atheist army was not necessarily evil, but completely sincere in their beliefs. I would also do everything under the guise of logic and reasoning. People hate being called stupid, and most religious people aren’t educated enough in apologetics to be able to properly refute atheistic claims.

Of course, this is for the Western World. In the Middle East, The religion of Islam is doing a nice job of convincing people that it’s real and is causing disharmony, war, and enmity in the region…just as the devil wants. There’s one of those false prophets we were being warned about, right?

I would also spread discord into Christianity itself…introduce false prophets, like the people who founded Mormonism and the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and I would splinter Christianity into fragments…divided we fall, together we stand…

That is why protecting the true teachings of the Catholic Church is so important…only the Truth can defeat the Devil’s lies.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

*That is why protecting the true teachings of the Catholic Church is so important…only the Truth can defeat the Devil’s lies. *

That is why in Kreeft’s book he has Satan thoroughly despising John Paul and his damnably perpetual smile … as if he knew something the devil didn’t know. And that he why he has Satan hurling literary thunder bolts at Veritatis splendor, John Paul’s own slam-dunk on relativism as the Big Lie.

 

[tonyrey]

Evidence. There’s no evidence for your god or for Thor or any other god, but there’s plenty of evidence for other beliefs (like, for example, that the earth is a spheroid shap).

Your notion of evidence is diabolically inspired! It is limited to what is unimportant. Nothing matters if there is nothing but matter!

Well, there’s not evidence for god claims. I suppose it’s possible that the devil is hiding evidence from me, but if that’s the case, there’s still no reason to believe.

He’s not hiding anything - except the truth! He is encouraging you to be **negative **and attack the beliefs and values of others rather than have a positive, creative approach to life.
Destruction is the name of the Devil’s game…

 

[toufell]

good work
great article…good comments
zhu zhu pets

 

[4Horsemen]

I think Uncle Screwtape is instructing his nephew, Wormwood, to be diligent about interfering with the workings of the Church, at all levels. One area ripe for seducing hapless souls is to filll sermons and homilies with mediocrity. Screwtape would instruct: first, encourage the celebrant to fixate on things that make pewsitters laugh and feel good about themselves and their own conscience. Maybe a joke or two to start the sermon, then a few takes on loving God and your neighbor while bringing in parts of the readings. Never mind the tough admonitions of the “Enemy” to repent and preach the gospel to all the world. Whatever you do, cloud the meaning of sin. “Our Father Below” will approve. Never allow them to speak of such topics as abortion and related affairs, pornography, cohabitation, “gay” marriage or any personal areas. Stick to collective “sins” like hunger, homelessness and other such situations. In fact, demonstrate how compassion and forgiveness can be shown without having to go through that awful practice of Confession. No need for that. Afterall, we’re all sinners. Be sure to invite these poor sinners to our underground palace where no light reveals what they call Truth.

 

[AntiTheist]

I don’t suppose you see any evidence of a malignant intelligence at work, working out in advance what its next destructive ideologcial step will be, hostile to the human race, and dedicated to its destruction?

I don’t. I think that everything you’ve mentioned in your post can be explained perfectly well as human aggression and stupidity, without the need to suppose any supernatural bad guy pulling the strings behind the scenes.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

AntiTheist

I don’t. I think that everything you’ve mentioned in your post can be explained perfectly well as human aggression and stupidity, without the need to suppose any supernatural bad guy pulling the strings behind the scenes.

Have you noticed any other species of life that behaves as stupidly and destructively as the human species? I doubt it. They have no immortal souls hanging in the balance. But if Satan wants to fill hell on the principle that misery loves company, he has picked the right creature upon whom to practice his malevolent wiles. :bigyikes::bigyikes::bigyikes:

 

[Moonstruck888]

AntiTheist

I don’t. I think that everything you’ve mentioned in your post can be explained perfectly well as human aggression and stupidity, without the need to suppose any supernatural bad guy pulling the strings behind the scenes.

Have you noticed any other species of life that behaves as stupidly and destructively as the human species? I doubt it. They have no immortal souls hanging in the balance. But if Satan wants to fill hell on the principle that misery loves company, he has picked the right creature upon whom to practice his malevolent wiles. :bigyikes::bigyikes::bigyikes:

Actually, yes I have noticed other species that behave as stupidly and destructively as humans.

Most mammals and birds behave remarkably similarly to human beings and are spared the worst cancers of the folly of human conceit only because they do not have the wit to create the kind of technological terrors that we can. Intra-species killing, infanticide, cannibalism, bullying and random violence are almost ubiquitous in the animal kingdom.

That said, it was written that there shall be no peace and safety. When they tell you about peace and safety sudden destruction shall cometh upon them as travail upon a woman with child.

Paul’s first letter to the Thessalonians. 5:3

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Moonstruck

Actually, yes I have noticed other species that behave as stupidly and destructively as humans.

Oh really?

And which of those species has been tempted, and given in to the temptation, to build a nuclear arsenal sufficient to destroy itself? :bigyikes::bigyikes::bigyikes:

Huh?

 

[Moonstruck888]

Moonstruck

Actually, yes I have noticed other species that behave as stupidly and destructively as humans.

Oh really?

And which of those species has been tempted, and given in to the temptation, to build a nuclear arsenal sufficient to destroy itself? :bigyikes::bigyikes::bigyikes:

Huh?

As I have already explained, every single mammal and bird on this planet would if it could, and if we destroy ourselves by becoming too decadent, unstable, lazy, whatever, we will not be the first nor the last.

A nuclear missile is simply an extention of a man’s fist. Just about every creature on this planet fights tooth and claw in some way. It’s simply that we are the only one’s that do so through versprung durch teknik.

 

[AntiTheist]

Have you noticed any other species of life that behaves as stupidly and destructively as the human species? I doubt it. They have no immortal souls hanging in the balance.

So your argument is that because human beings have the potential to do the most damage to their own species and/or the planet, this is evidence that a supernatural intelligence is orchestrating their aggressive actions?

Seriously?

I’m sorry, but there’s nothing that human beings are doing that cannot be explained in completely natural ways. As others have noted, animals behave in aggressive and violent ways. Humans, as the animals who have developed more complicated brains, more advanced intellect, and more advanced technology, are using that technology in aggressive and violent ways. That’s exactly what we would expect based on what we know of nature.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

AntiTheist
*
I’m sorry, but there’s nothing that human beings are doing that cannot be explained in completely natural ways. As others have noted, animals behave in aggressive and violent ways. Humans, as the animals who have developed more complicated brains, more advanced intellect, and more advanced technology, are using that technology in aggressive and violent ways. That’s exactly what we would expect based on what we know of nature. *

It’s not uncommon for atheists like yourself to stress the animal side of human nature. You can’t, or don’t want, to see anything else in man, such as his reach for God and the path by which he will find God.

To you man is just a sophisticated animal with greater capacity for aggression and stupidity than the lower animals. But there is no comparison with man and the other animals. The other animals are not cruel to their own kind just for the pleasure of it. They kill to eat, not to justify their evil pride as Hitler did.

Man is also drawn to the divine, and there is great nobility in him as well as depravity. Animals do not strive for virtue to overcome their sinful nature because they know nothing about virtue or sin. They have no conscience.

These things are known by any thinking person. But atheists don’t want to think about them, and deny they are even possible.

The fool in his heart says there is no God. And the devil applauds that fool.

As John Henry Newman said so eloquently:

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Moonstruck

A nuclear missile is simply an extention of a man’s fist. Just about every creature on this planet fights tooth and claw in some way. It’s simply that we are the only one’s that do so through versprung durch teknik.

Ah, I see. What you are saying is that man is the devil in nature, since he alone can tempt himself to annihilate God’s creation through versprung durch teknik.

Either way, there is a devil in the works, is there not? Or do you see man’s possible self destruction as the insignificant end to an insignificant being … which could not be averted because the machine is doomed to self destruct?

In which case Nature would be the unconscious destroyer?

 

[AntiTheist]

It’s not uncommon for atheists like yourself to stress the animal side of human nature.

It’s also not uncommon for theists like you to evade the issue. It was you who brought up man’s brutal qualities as evidence of the existence of a supernatural, evil intelligence.

I’m pointing out that there is no logical way to get from “People do bad things” to “There’s a magical being that makes people do bad things or that pulls the strings of history.”

 

[Bob_Crowley]

It’s also not uncommon for theists like you to evade the issue. It was you who brought up man’s brutal qualities as evidence of the existence of a supernatural, evil intelligence.

I’m pointing out that there is no logical way to get from “People do bad things” to “There’s a magical being that makes people do bad things or that pulls the strings of history.”

As far as I’m concerned there is. Those in the human race try to work towards a better world. They set up social security systems, they declare the “war to end wars” has just finished, set up the UN, set up economic systems.

But invariably all these sincere plans fall over on their face. The “war to end wars” is followed by an even bigger and worse one; the social security system is ripped off by a number; the UN becomes toothless; the economic system deterioriates to a have vs. have-nots scenario. And just as we finish one ideological conflict, another arises to take its place.

If you took the spiritual influence out of the equation, we’d find it a lot easier. Granted there would still be people who "do bad things’, but I doubt they’d have the power. I always think of Hitler in this regard - a vagabond, bohemian artist and erstwhile architect, wandering around the streets of Vienna, becomes in a few years one of the greatest tyrants of all time. Where’d he get the power from? Was it something in him? Or was there a far more powerful intelligence using him for its own terrible ends?

I think it was the latter.

 

[AntiTheist]

But invariably all these sincere plans fall over on their face.

The fact that we seem to be unable to voluntarily override our aggressive nature is not evidence that there are supernatural critters running around, and I’m somewhat surprised that someone would actually consider it anything approaching evidence.

If you took the spiritual influence out of the equation, we’d find it a lot easier. Granted there would still be people who "do bad things’, but I doubt they’d have the power.

This is just a bald assertion. On what could you possibly base an idea like this?

You’re seriously suggesting that the only way that “bad people” could ever possibly have power is through the intervention of a magical bad guy? You can think of no other more likely explanations or possibilities? The most likely explanation to you is “magical bad guy did it”?

I always think of Hitler in this regard - a vagabond, bohemian artist and erstwhile architect, wandering around the streets of Vienna, becomes in a few years one of the greatest tyrants of all time. Where’d he get the power from? Was it something in him? Or was there a far more powerful intelligence using him for its own terrible ends?

Well, let’s see. He wrote a political treatise, was a charismatic speaker who amassed a lot of credulous followers who wanted to believe his words, he attracted a number of thugs who helped him bully his way into power…

All of those things are well within the powers of a normal person. Now, perhaps believing that there’s some sort of “super bad guy” lurking behind him (the level boss?) gives you the comfort of some kind of master narrative playing out across history, but from where I sit, it seems like you’re jumping to conclusions without any good reason or evidence.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

The fact that we seem to be unable to voluntarily override our aggressive nature is not evidence that there are supernatural critters running around, and I’m somewhat surprised that someone would actually consider it anything approaching evidence.

This is just a bald assertion. On what could you possibly base an idea like this?

You’re seriously suggesting that the only way that “bad people” could ever possibly have power is through the intervention of a magical bad guy? You can think of no other more likely explanations or possibilities? The most likely explanation to you is “magical bad guy did it”?

Well, let’s see. He wrote a political treatise, was a charismatic speaker who amassed a lot of credulous followers who wanted to believe his words, he attracted a number of thugs who helped him bully his way into power…

All of those things are well within the powers of a normal person. Now, perhaps believing that there’s some sort of “super bad guy” lurking behind him (the level boss?) gives you the comfort of some kind of master narrative playing out across history, but from where I sit, it seems like you’re jumping to conclusions without any good reason or evidence.

Unfortunately for me, I had the experience of my own father turning up in my bedroom on the night he died. He started with an apology, we argued and conversed, then he disappeared. But just before he disappeared, he gave this almighty, terrifying scream whilst trying to ward something off.

The trouble is that I can’t prove it to you. But something was coming for him, and it scared him to the core of his being. Oddly enough I was an atheist at the time, and it was the last thing I was expecting. I certainly wasn’t thinking of an event like that.

I’ve become Christian since, and there have been quite a number of other “spiritual” experiences. No doubt others on this forum could tell you about their own.

I believe Hitler was set up by the Devil. The result was colossal evil and human suffering, just what the Devil wants. He had human help of course, but behind it was the same being who so terrified my own father the night he died. Hitler was a willing tool, but since the Devil hates his tools, he always destroys them in the end.