The Devil's Battle Plan

  • Thread starter Thread starter Charlemagne_II
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
AntiTheist
*
All of those things are well within the powers of a normal person. Now, perhaps believing that there’s some sort of “super bad guy” lurking behind him (the level boss?) gives you the comfort of some kind of master narrative playing out across history, but from where I sit, it seems like you’re jumping to conclusions without any good reason or evidence. *

All of your posts have been to dissuade us of the idea of a satanic being.This is, of course, exactly what Satan wants. How can you fight the enemy if you believe he doesn’t even exist?

The persistence with which you assault belief in the devil has no logical merit whatever. Your “proof” that there is no devil is that you haven’t seen him. That is the same argument you use against God. And Satan applauds you for both arguments. :clapping:
 
AntiTheist

I’m pointing out that there is no logical way to get from “People do bad things” to “There’s a magical being that makes people do bad things or that pulls the strings of history.”

Nor is there a logical way to get from “I don’t see Satan in the flesh” to “Therefore Satan does not exist.” :rolleyes:
 
Reepicheep said:
And yes, the existence of the Devil is official Catholic doctrine.
Click to expand...
How does Satan fit into Catholic theology? Is Satan essential in some way for explaining the world as it is and the world to come? How would the world be different if Satan did not exist?
 
Leela

*How does Satan fit into Catholic theology? Is Satan essential in some way for explaining the world as it is and the world to come? How would the world be different if Satan did not exist? *

Too many questions here to adequately answer in one post.

The third question requires a purely speculative answer, since Satan did exist before the world.

The second question is answered with a resounding yes.

The answer to the first question is that Satan obviously does fit into Catholic theology since he is the spoiler of Eden and the reason why Christ came to do battle with him as he breathed his last breath on the cross.

This concept of Satan’s role in producing original sin is clearly enunciated in the rite of baptism when the baptized person is asked if he/she renounces Satan and all his works…
 
There is evidence that Hitler was involved in the occult, and that his philosophy or “blood religion” was developed from his association with occultists in the Workers Party (Nazi Party). He heard supernatural voices and felt a supernatural power. Just googling brought up some videos and article. Below is a link to a shorter video:

youtube.com/watch?v=ksnXDjx50pc
 
Psychiatrist Dr. M. Scott Peck (The Road Less Traveled) in his book People of the Lie (especially Chapter 5) tells of being invited to attend several exorcisms. Though skeptical of demonic presences, Peck later described in vivid detail his experiences and the shock of recognition that something truly satanic was present on those occasions.
 
Bob_Crowley said:
I believe Hitler was set up by the Devil.
Click to expand...
I know you believe it. The trouble is that you have no good reason for believing it.

Charlemagne II:
All of your posts have been to dissuade us of the idea of a satanic being.This is, of course, exactly what Satan wants.
Click to expand...
Translation: “There’s no evidence that this being exists?! Why, that’s actually evidence that this being does exist!!”
Your “proof” that there is no devil is that you haven’t seen him.
Click to expand...
No, my argument is that there is absolutely zero evidence that any such being exists at all. I’ve seen the devil plenty of times, in movies and TV shows. I just don’t see any reason at all to think that it’s a real being, in the exact same way that I don’t see any evidence that the Tricks Rabbit is a real being.
 
*No, my argument is that there is absolutely zero evidence that any such being exists at all. I’ve seen the devil plenty of times, in movies and TV shows. I just don’t see any reason at all to think that it’s a real being, in the exact same way that I don’t see any evidence that the Tricks Rabbit is a real being. *

With your absolutely zero tolerance of any evidence that the devil exists, despite many who claim to have such evidence, you would not be a good candidate to attend an exorcism. You might be scared out of your wits in the presence of the devil, as Dr. Peck was, but later you would find a way to laugh it off as bogus.

Just exactly what the devil wants you to do! :clapping:
 
Charlemagne_II said:
*No, my argument is that there is absolutely zero evidence that any such being exists at all. I’ve seen the devil plenty of times, in movies and TV shows. I just don’t see any reason at all to think that it’s a real being, in the exact same way that I don’t see any evidence that the Tricks Rabbit is a real being. *

With your absolutely zero tolerance of any evidence that the devil exists, despite many who claim to have such evidence, you would not be a good candidate to attend an exorcism. You might be scared out of your wits in the presence of the devil, as Dr. Peck was, but later you would find a way to laugh it off as bogus.

Just exactly what the devil wants you to do! :clapping:
Click to expand...
What sort of special powers is the devil supposed to have?
Is there a bit in the Catechism that explains all this?
 
Charlemagne_II said:
*How does Satan fit into Catholic theology? Is Satan essential in some way for explaining the world as it is and the world to come? How would the world be different if Satan did not exist? *

Too many questions here to adequately answer in one post.

The third question requires a purely speculative answer, since Satan did exist before the world.
Click to expand...
Yes, but a difference needs to MAKE a difference. Can you speculate how the world would be different if the devil did not exist? If the world would not be different without the devil, it is meaningless to say that the devil exists.
Charlemagne_II said:
The second question is answered with a resounding yes.
Click to expand...
Well, the question was really the same as the first question. I was wonderring what is the significance of saying that the devil exists. How does one behave if one believes in the devil as compared to not believing in the devil?
Charlemagne_II said:
The answer to the first question is that Satan obviously does fit into Catholic theology since he is the spoiler of Eden and the reason why Christ came to do battle with him as he breathed his last breath on the cross.

This concept of Satan’s role in producing original sin is clearly enunciated in the rite of baptism when the baptized person is asked if he/she renounces Satan and all his works…
Click to expand...
I know about the snake in the garden. I’m wonderring if that part of the ancient mythology is the whole of the devil’s role in the theology. Is it thought that Eve would not have eaten the apple without the snake’s urging?

To your second point, why would God (Christ) need to do battle with the devil??? God could anhiliate the devil at any moment if he chose to do so.Certainly Christ did NOT come to do battle with the devil. That is no contest at all.

And to the renouncing Satan and all his empty promises…yeah, sure, why not?
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Moonstruck

A nuclear missile is simply an extention of a man’s fist. Just about every creature on this planet fights tooth and claw in some way. It’s simply that we are the only one’s that do so through versprung durch teknik.

Ah, I see. What you are saying is that man is the devil in nature, since he alone can tempt himself to annihilate God’s creation through versprung durch teknik.

Either way, there is a devil in the works, is there not? Or do you see man’s possible self destruction as the insignificant end to an insignificant being … which could not be averted because the machine is doomed to self destruct?

In which case Nature would be the unconscious destroyer?
Click to expand...
I see nature as being merciless. As to whether or not we self destruct, that depends on whether or not we have the calibre to survive, and that is entirely up to us and us alone.

We cannot blame our errors, our rapciousness or our misfortunes on invisible entities any more than we should give them credit for our triumphs. If take our technological achievements and focus and shape them through versprung durch teknik to address the issues at hand, we can survive.

If we continue down the path of unbridled greed, erroneously thinking we’re a cut above nature and continue to hedonistically abuse the biosphere, we shall become extinct.
 
Leela

To your second point, why would God (Christ) need to do battle with the devil??? God could anhiliate the devil at any moment if he chose to do so.Certainly Christ did NOT come to do battle with the devil. That is no contest at all.

Well, of course, not literally swordplay with the devil! We are talking about doing battle for all the souls of the human race.

If you want to know what the Catechism says, get one and read the sections on the devil, specifically those pages referred to in the index. Catechisms can be purchased through amazon.com at very reduced prices. 😉
 
moonstruck
*
I see nature as being merciless. As to whether or not we self destruct, that depends on whether or not we have the calibre to survive, and that is entirely up to us and us alone.

We cannot blame our errors, our rapciousness or our misfortunes on invisible entities any more than we should give them credit for our triumphs*

Spoken like a true agnostic. But not convincing at all.

Nature is benevolent by giving us life, and benevolent by taking it away so that we may finally get the reward we have earned, or the misery we deserve.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
moonstruck
*
I see nature as being merciless. As to whether or not we self destruct, that depends on whether or not we have the calibre to survive, and that is entirely up to us and us alone.

We cannot blame our errors, our rapciousness or our misfortunes on invisible entities any more than we should give them credit for our triumphs*

Spoken like a true agnostic. But not convincing at all.

Nature is benevolent by giving us life, and benevolent by taking it away so that we may finally get the reward we have earned, or the misery we deserve.
Click to expand...
Nature has no feelings about us, benevolence or otherwise. We are an inextricable part of nature and nature is only self aware within us, and if they exist other beings like us.
 
Nature has no feelings about us, benevolence or otherwise.

Then neither can it be, as you said above, merciless.

But Satan* is* merciless.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Nature has no feelings about us, benevolence or otherwise.

Then of course it cannot be, as you said above, merciless.

But Satan* is* merciless.
Click to expand...
Being merciful would imply a feeling. Merciless would imply the lack of one.

Satan, like God, leaves very little evidence of his existence…
 
Leela

Can you speculate how the world would be different if the devil did not exist?

The matter is of no interest to me since that isn’t what happened. Why waste yourself speculating on something that never happened? 😉
 
  • Being merciful would imply a feeling. Merciless would imply the lack of one.*
Excuse me. The word “merciless” implies extreme cruelty, which is certainly a feeling. :eek:
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Leela

To your second point, why would God (Christ) need to do battle with the devil??? God could anhiliate the devil at any moment if he chose to do so.Certainly Christ did NOT come to do battle with the devil. That is no contest at all.

Well, of course, not literally swordplay with the devil! We are talking about doing battle for all the souls of the human race.

If you want to know what the Catechism says, get one and read the sections on the devil, specifically those pages referred to in the index. Catechisms can be purchased through amazon.com at very reduced prices. 😉
Click to expand...
There is no battle that God would need to wage with the devil. God could eliminate the influence of the devil at any time. I’m wondering why God would allow the devil to influence people. Don’t we have enough trouble figuring out right and wrong without a supernatural demon trying to deceive us all the time?
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Leela

Can you speculate how the world would be different if the devil did not exist?

The matter is of no interest to me since that isn’t what happened. Why waste yourself speculating on something that never happened? 😉
Click to expand...
The reason it is an important question to answer is that if the world without the devil is no difference than the world with the devil, then it is meaningless to say that the devil exists, so I’m wondering what you can mean when you say that he does.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top