The Door to Real Jewish Life

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It’s not, and thanks! And don’t forget to try challah with Kahlua cream sauce, umy! Also, I know a lot of Messinaic Jews still celebrate today, so… Chag Sameach!
 
I went down to Whole Foods and found the bread. So I was very excited about it.

Are you familiar with czech bread houska?
It’s also a braided bread and almost made the same way even when I took a look at the bread over at Whole Foods it didn’t seem the same.

Did you see this reply? It didn’t connect to your post so i’m resending it
 
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Ya, in fact, you’re right, it’s the same as Challah, just without the raisins.
 
Rabbi said:
the Talmud has nothing to say of Jesus. Nothing. If that’s what you get out of those Jewish apologists, I’m sorry, they don’t know their Talmud either. The Jesus spoken of in the Talmud lived approximately a hundred years before the Jesus of the Gospels, and any thin connections that can be made just happen to be pure coincidence.
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You’re saying that Sanhedrin43A is not about Jesus Christ? Who is it in reference to?
 
Okay, let me answer that… but let’s first quote Sanhedrin 43a, B.T., in context:

"It is taught: On the eve of Pesach they hung Yeshu and the crier went forth for forty days beforehand declaring that ‘[Yeshu] is going to be stoned for practicing witchcraft, for enticing and leading Yisrael astray. Anyone who knows something to clear him should come forth and exonerate him.’ But no one had anything exonerating for him and they hung him on the eve of Pesach. Ulla said: Would one think that we should look for exonerating evidence for him? He was an enticer and G-d said (Devarim 13:9) ‘Show him no pity or compassion, and do not shield him.’ [For] Yeshu was different because he was close to the government.’

Keep in mind now that Yeshu, like Ben Stada, was executed on the eve of Pesach. Beforehand, the Sanhedrin asked for eyewitnesses to clear his name. None came forward. But Ulla questioned this practice… because an enticer, due Torah mandate, should have never been given a chance of mercy. But because Yeshu held authority in government, did the Sanhedrin try to clear up his name. Now we come into some hefty problems if this Yeshu is to indeed be the same Jesus of the Gospel. Recall again here that many people, like Ben Stada, were executed on the eve of Pesach, this doesn’t mean any connection to Jesus.

Problems:
  1. The Synoptic Gospels, lest you rely on John as being more spiritually authoritative - in that case, why bother reading the others - say that Jesus was killed ON Pesach, not on the eve.
  2. Again, as already stated above, we can date Yeshu’s life to being a century before Jesus. This is all recorded in the Talmud. The rabbis weren’t “off” with their dating techniques. We can rely on them. They’ve always been honest with us, like when admitting that the Jewish calendar came from Bavel.
  3. Yeshu, as we can see, was executed by the Sanhedrin alone, not the Romans. During Yeshu’s time, King Alexander Janneus had sway over the Great Court, though he had to be careful, as he was a Sadducee, and they, Pharisees. It is obvious now why the Sanhedrin wouldn’t want to upset the monarchy by executing a friend of his. During the Roman period, there is no historical backing that they allowed Jewish courts the right to execute criminals.
  4. There are no indications in the New Testament that Jesus had friends in the government. Don’t say the Talmud got the story messed up, that’s ridiculous.
There’s your proof. I pray all is well with you and a blessed day.
 
Also recall that the name “Yeshu” was very popular in these days. If you were in a large crowd of maybe a hundred people and called “Yeshua,” over 20-30 heads would peak up thinking you were directing them. Plus, many Jews lived down in Egypt, so that argument won’t work either.

Glad I could help though 🙂
 
There is plenty of ignorance about what Talmud teaches among Jews as well as non-Jews. That is one of the reasons evangelization and worse, antisemitism, by so-called Jewish authorities (rabbis and such) can be so effective, including among Israelis. Jesus is not the center of Judaism or the Oral Torah, not even the periphery. And it is certain the Talmud does NOT contradict the Torah. Even I, hardly a Talmudic scholar like you, know that much.
 
As “rabbi” states, they are either ignorant, misinformed Jews or deceptive ones, who also happen to have the title of rabbi. Remember, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
 
By “deceptive ones” with the term “rabbi,” do you mean Messianic Jews who also have rabbinic training? I agree with your above statement wholeheartedly, Jesus isn’t even in the “peripheral” vision of Talmud because he has nothing to say on halacha or aggadah. I hope no one takes this with offense, but Jesus had nothing to do with the Mihsnah and Judaism wasn’t a mere “response” to Christianity. It’d be like saying R. Akiva influenced the New Testament, even though Jesus, we’re told, lived way before him. I have no problem believing he did.

For everyone else, I promise, I will answer your claims, like why I think Jesus might have been a Pharisee (but not Paul) as soon as I get the chance. Thank you for your patience. Shalom
 
We can argue until the parousia over this, generating heat but little light. As honey attracts more than vinegar (which still retains it uses), I prefer to appeal to the heart as well as the mind.

Bishop Fulton Sheen (R.I.P.) consistently taught that Yeshua is the only religious figure to be predicted by the prophets, to have fulfilled those predictions, to have been so well attested to (at a cost in blood, including dear life itself), and to have so many contemporaneously observed/verified miracles attributed to Him.

He overturned conventional wisdom, causing those around Him to ask where He got this learning. Using a calculator is a poor manner of determining the truth of a matter, or in choosing one’s beliefs, but I see countless prophesies which he fulfilled, prophesies of His own which came to pass and the utter selflessness with which He offered to suffer and die.

Today’s OT reading at mass (Wisdom 2:10-20) was written perhaps 50 years before the incarnation and in my mind, is the clearest, most focused and specific prophecy of the Messiah in all of the scriptures.

Those who will not have him state their reasons why not. I would rather they, behind closed doors and in silence, ponder the reasons why. None approaching Him had come before and none has followed. He Himself affirmed claims made about Him only at the cost of His life and at its earthly end.

I could well understand objections to Him were He of Gentile origin, or even of purely human origin - many have proclaimed themselves leaders, but their followers were quickly dispersed at their deaths.

In the case of Yeshua, his followers have only increased upon His death, and oftentimes willingly paying the highest price imaginable.
 
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Rabbi said:
But as far as the Talmud goes, please consider the opinion of a Jew who’s studied it, who partakes in daf yomi (one page of Talmud a day, completion in about 7 years): the Talmud has nothing to say of Jesus. Nothing.
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Peter Schäfer, Professor of Judaic Studies and Director of the Program in Judaic Studies at Princeton University and Winner of the 2007 Distinguished Achievement Award from the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation, explains in great detail in his book Jesus and the Talmud the many references to THE Jesus, the founder of the Church.

But Schäfer’s book puts it all together, as the book’s description from the publisher states:

Scattered throughout the Talmud, the founding document of rabbinic Judaism in late antiquity, can be found quite a few references to Jesus–and they’re not flattering. In this lucid, richly detailed, and accessible book, Peter Schäfer examines how the rabbis of the Talmud read, understood, and used the New Testament Jesus narrative to assert, ultimately, Judaism’s superiority over Christianity.

The Talmudic stories make fun of Jesus’ birth from a virgin, fervently contest his claim to be the Messiah and Son of God, and maintain that he was rightfully executed as a blasphemer and idolater. They subvert the Christian idea of Jesus’ resurrection and insist he got the punishment he deserved in hell–and that a similar fate awaits his followers.

Schäfer contends that these stories betray a remarkable familiarity with the Gospels–especially Matthew and John–and represent a deliberate and sophisticated anti-Christian polemic that parodies the New Testament narratives. He carefully distinguishes between Babylonian and Palestinian sources, arguing that the rabbis’ proud and self-confident countermessage to that of the evangelists was possible only in the unique historical setting of Persian Babylonia, in a Jewish community that lived in relative freedom. The same could not be said of Roman and Byzantine Palestine, where the Christians aggressively consolidated their political power and the Jews therefore suffered.
Rabbi said:
The Jesus spoken of in the Talmud lived approximately a hundred years before the Jesus of the Gospels, and any thin connections that can be made just happen to be pure coincidence.
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Nonsense.
 
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meltzerboy2 said:
As “rabbi” states, they are either ignorant, misinformed Jews or deceptive ones, who also happen to have the title of rabbi
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They don’t seem ignorant misinformed or deceptive to me. In fact quite the opposite. And the way they have been personally treated by rabbis in Israel speaks volumes. But I think this short video below speaks directly to many Jews who simply want the truth; after all, the truth is what we are all after. Watch this:

 
You are not a heretic! This is a teaching of Judaism, that all men, whether Jew or Gentile, can merit HaShem’s love, even if they never knew Him (i.e., a Hindu in the 5th century BCE).
 
Let’s just not go there. This stuff can get very emotional. Jews who believe Jesus likely don’t have as much an education in Talmud as they try to come off as.
 
@po18guy, you are definitely the writer. Have you ever thought of writing a book? I’m serious, I’m not making fun of you. You should try to write something. It’s majestic, even though I personally see many prophecies unfulfilled in Jesus
 
Rabbi said:
Jews who believe Jesus likely don’t have as much an education in Talmud as they try to come off as.
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On the contrary, there are those who no matter what, don’t want to believe in Jesus, so they put a lot of effort into coming up with reasons against Jesus Christ, much like atheists who don’t want to believe in the existence God even though the evidence is crushing their position. Roy Schoeman, the author of Salvation is From the Jews, was one of them. Here´ sRoy speaking on our topic:

 
I’m very sorry, but I bet you may rabbi knows more about Talmud than professor Peter Schäfer, who was obviously writing with an agenda in mind.

So you think that the rabbis only concerned themselves, through 63 tractates, with ridiculing Jesus? I’m telling you now: I’m Jewish. I know Talmud, and it has nothing to say on Jesus. If you can’t accept that, I can’t help you. Peter Schäfer’s knowledge of Talmud is about as dull as it is on the Quran. Its the same kind of thing we see all the time. Christians get angry because everyone doesn’t follow Jesus, and point at the Talmud and Quran and say they’re filled with hate speech when they won’t even spend a minute to digest the truth of the matter. I mean what are you going to throw at me next? That we eat baby Christians?

You know who uses Peter’s book? That filthy, rotten Holocaust denier, Pastor Steve Anderson. I couldn’t even sit through a quarter of his film. It’s awful. You won’t believe it, and no, I’m not giving you permission to watch it either, its plain garbage.

To claim that my statement on Yeshu living a hundred years before Jesus is “nonsense” is the epitome of ignorance. My personal advice: if you don’t know a shred of Talmud, other than what you read from the anti-Semites, don’t go around acting all tall and mighty. You know next to nothing of what it teaches IF you believe the rabbis were racist pedophiles. I’m not accusing you of being an anti-Semite, nor believing in that hogwash, and I don’t want to. The Talmud isn’t some villainous book written as a “reaction” to Jesus, this is very hurtful and absurd.
 
The One for Israel ministry comes from the perspective of apologetics. Notice how nobody refute their well-presented case, and rabbis in Israel have only taken the road of personal attacks and insults against them. It’s kind of like when atheists hear all the evidence for God and their response is to automatically dismiss the evidence and dismissing people as ignorant; no attempt to refute what they say but rather to attack them personally and dismiss them. It’s an interesting phenomenon to see such reactions.
 
And even if one were to give Peter Schafer and his scholarship the benefit of the doubt, Schafer admits that any references to Jesus of Nazareth in the Babylonian Talmud are scattered and incidental. So the author himself does not intend that these be interpreted as the central focus of the Talmud. However, some of his readers have latched onto these occasional references and made them the core of the Talmud’s teachings.

In fact, Schafer’s thesis is that the Jewish rabbinical elite of the period responded to the scurrilous charges of the Christian leadership rather than remaining silent. The former wished to reveal the superiority of Judaism just as Christians/Catholics wished to maintain the superiority of their religion in terms of numbers and teaching. Thus one has here a mainly political power struggle between the upper echelons of each religion. If one accepts Schafer’s contention that there was a semi-concealed agenda within the Talmud albeit not the central theme, one is also obliged to concede that the Church was responsible for reprehensible crimes against the Jewish people during antiquity and the Middle Ages. One cannot–according to Schafer’s claims–accept one without the other.
 
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