The Dress Code for the Vatican - Should it be Universal?

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I absolutely think churches should follow the vatican’s dress code. Although I think most people are ok, the younger generation (of which I am one) could cetainly use some guidance. Also, the dress code, if explained, just might translate into daily life.
 
I’m a bit torn on this one, I can see the benefits of guidelines but it gets a bit tricky in practice, and too many people are very quick to turn guidelines into unbending rules.

Many sleeveless tops or dresses are perfectly modest and look smart and quite ‘dressed up’. Of course many are also far too revealing to be worn anywhere but the beach at one extreme or a nightclub at the other. Most are probably somewhere in between. A lot of it is how the item is clothing is worn and how well (or not) it fits.

I think it’s all in the perception. Personally, I think spaghetti straps are probably out for Church, but I’m fine with most sleeveless tops. Others wouldn’t be happy unless every woman present had sleeves below the elbow and skirts at mid-calf. I like to see that people have made a bit of an effort but as has been said, the fact that someone is attending is more important than what they’re wearing.

I recall my primary school days when all the girls had to kneel in the classroom and the nuns would go down the line measuring the distance between the floor and the bottom of the uniform. It seemed ridiculous then and it seems ridiculous now when I read of people measuring the distance between the neckline of a top and the collar bone.

All most people have to do to see if what they’re wearing is appropriate or too revealing is look in a mirror. I think trying to make rules like this tends towards punishing everyone because of the actions of an unreasonable few.
 
Our parish receives a lot of summertime visitors. Many of these folks come straight from the campsite or their boats to Mass. We welcome them however they come - just glad to have them 🙂
 
Paddy1989 said:
I said yes based on the fact that because immodesty is so acceptable in society and even amongst practicing Catholic’s the Church should become a bastion for modesty and encourage other’s ESPECIALLY Catholic’s to practice it. I think those that said yes do not recognize that immodesty is immoral
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good luck getting people to come to church then.
 
Luna_Lovecraft said:
Correct. 👍 A dress code would be utterly meaningless if someone wasn’t in charge of enforcing it.

Has anyone here ever been in the position of having to work with a dress code? Even in professional settings where people are being PAID to abide by one managers routinely call people out for not being dressed properly and send people home to change.

Church dress code = pastor’s headache
Church dress code = people policing
Church dress code = women shaming

I have another question: If enforcing a dress code was so easy-peasy, why don’t more churches have them? Why didn’t churches have them in the 60s when every woman 15-65 wore micro-minis? Or in the 70s when guys wore their shirts unbuttoned to their belly buttons? Because they’re IMPOSSIBLE to enforce unless you have something you can withhold from miscreants, that’s why. And what does a church have, the Eucharist? Is anyone here going to suggest we start denying the Body and Bloood of Christ by turning away fellow Catholics at the church doors because they don’t abide by some arbitrary, western-centric “modesty” code put together by people of obvious privilege? God help us if that’s what we’ve become.

Luna
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yep
 
Catya said:
Our parish receives a lot of summertime visitors. Many of these folks come straight from the campsite or their boats to Mass. We welcome them however they come - just glad to have them 🙂
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👍
 
I do believe that the rule should be enforced, but considerations should be made as to have the exceptions and not destroy the rule.
 
For those that said they live in hot climates…There are plenty of women who live in the middle east, dressed head to toe in black and all that’s exposed are their eyes. They manage to survive somehow…

Yes, this should be universal.

No, no one should be kicked out of Mass, ever.
There are no bouncers in the Catholic Church.
You post the rules and hope that people choose to follow. If majority follows the rules, eventually the stragglers will catch on. If people don’t want to come to Mass because they have to wear a bra and cover their goods, I highly doubt they were there for the right reasons in the first place…
 
L_piperatus said:
The dress code forbids:

hats for lay men inside the basilica
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Uniform hats tend to be okay in churches and don’t priests remove hats during certain parts of the Mass?
In my lowly layman’s opinion, this same dress code should be printed out and posted on the door of every Catholic Church on earth…the immodest clothing displayed on Sunday mornings is over the limit.
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And not only church…
 
chevalier said:
Uniform hats tend to be okay in churches and don’t priests remove hats during certain parts of the Mass?

And not only church…
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According to liturgical practice, bishops (including the Pope) remove their zucchetto for the Liturgy of the Eucharist, at the preface, only replacing it after communion. This is in reverence for the Blessed Sacrament, so these are also not worn for either exposition or benediction.

When the miter is worn, it is over the zucchetto, and if memory serves correctly, a mitre is removed immediately after the processional and not replaced until immediately before the recessional.

As far as I know, though, men are not to wear hats other than mitres or zucchettos inside a church at all. The only exception I can think of is when a man is in the processional, and has not taken his seat yet–as with when the Knights are an honor guard for the processional; they remove their hats as the clergy come by, though, think? I know they have them off before returning to their places.
 
EasterJoy said:
I see what you’re saying, but I can hardly see how a Christian could get the idea that there is a “right” to a “peaceful environment free of scandal” in this vale of tears. Being sinners, we kind of need to resign ourselves to the fact that we’ll see sins in progress from time to time, even on the grounds of our churches. Our children can learn that this is the case. It is easier to approach for forgiveness when you have learned from the cradle that a habit of forgiving (and just general generosity, for that matter) has to come along for those of us who have the hope of forgiveness and mercy for ourselves.

If you run a hospital, you insist on posting the rules of public safety, but you don’t turn away people who come in with an infection because they don’t wash their hands. You educate, educate, educate…but that education starts with hospitality to the uneducated. You don’t pretend that hand-washing is just some little quirk you personally like, rather than a matter of true import, but you do allow for a learning curve. Otherwise, the uneducated just turn away and spread whatever they’re carrying to the rest of the population.
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EasterJoy, thanks for the perspective. As always, a well thought-out and charitable reply on your part.
 
Edit: I just wanted to add that most of the problem could be resolved, in addition to posting a dress code, by making available modest sweaters and clothing items for those who show up dressed immodestly.

If the visitors are unaware of the rules of modesty in a Catholic church, or perhaps know the rules but were unable to comply due to some unforeseen or extraordinary circumstance, and if they are a person of good will, they will appreciate the help and will put on that sweater, long skirt, pants, or shawl provided to them by the greater, so that they can bring themselves in compliance with the expectations of the Catholic Church to always dress modestly when setting foot inside a Catholic church.

I would happily provide a bunch of sweaters and pants, in clean and good condition, for this purpose. I suspect many other people would also be happy to pitch in and provide clothing items for their churches.

Also, this would be an excellent opportunity to help those less fortunate among us. If the person was not dressed appropriately due to financial hardship, let them put on those modest clothes and keep those clothes as a gift from the parish. This would be an act of corporeal mercy - clothing the naked.
 
L_piperatus said:
Edit: I just wanted to add that most of the problem could be resolved, in addition to posting a dress code, by making available modest sweaters and clothing items for those who show up dressed immodestly.
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How would a used, old sweater help those that have a skirt that is an inch too short? Or for someone that wore a sleeveless shirt because of the heat? Do you think they would want to put on a sweater?
If the visitors are unaware of the rules of modesty in a Catholic church, or perhaps know the rules but were unable to comply due to some unforeseen or extraordinary circumstance, and if they are a person of good will, they will appreciate the help and will put on that sweater, long skirt, pants, or shawl provided to them by the greater, so that they can bring themselves in compliance with the expectations of the Catholic Church to always dress modestly when setting foot inside a Catholic church.
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Maybe you should word it, if visitors are unaware of the rules in your Catholic church. Because “the Church” has never indicated that the rules of the Vatican should be the rules for every parish.

I am generally a person of good will. But if I walked into a Catholic church, wearing shorts because I had come directly from the hospital after being there all day with a sick parent/child/spouse and someone tried to stop me so I could put on a “sweater,” I don’t know I could be held responsible for my actions.
I would happily provide a bunch of sweaters and pants, in clean and good condition, for this purpose. I suspect many other people would also be happy to pitch in and provide clothing items for their churches.
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Also, this would be an excellent opportunity to help those less fortunate among us. If the person was not dressed appropriately due to financial hardship, let them put on those modest clothes and keep those clothes as a gift from the parish. This would be an act of corporeal mercy - clothing the naked.
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And what would you do with those that thought you were nuts? Because if I had on a shirt that I felt was modest and looked fine, and I was approached by someone telling my that I was an occasion of sin, and to put on this sweater, I might just have to tell them what I thought about their busy bodyness.
 
L_piperatus said:
And here’s another variation on clothing the naked:

Let the churches buy some choir robes, and dress those who show up in church dressed immodestly!

I will be happy to contribute financially to this cause.
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Why not just sew a Scarlet Letter on their clothes. :rolleyes:
 
Will failure to adhere to the Vatican’s Dress Code destroy the entire Catholic Church? According to CAF, yes. Yes, it will. :sad_yes:

I voted, because every vote counts when our Holy Father prayerfully considers this poll in his next ex cathedra announcement concerning appropriate attire threads at CAF.
 
maryjk said:
How would a used, old sweater help those that have a skirt that is an inch too short? Or for someone that wore a sleeveless shirt because of the heat? Do you think they would want to put on a sweater? Maybe you should word it, if visitors are unaware of the rules in your Catholic church. Because “the Church” has never indicated that the rules of the Vatican should be the rules for every parish.

I am generally a person of good will. But if I walked into a Catholic church, wearing shorts because I had come directly from the hospital after being there all day with a sick parent/child/spouse and someone tried to stop me so I could put on a “sweater,” I don’t know I could be held responsible for my actions.
And what would you do with those that thought you were nuts? Because if I had on a shirt that I felt was modest and looked fine, and I was approached by someone telling my that I was an occasion of sin, and to put on this sweater, I might just have to tell them what I thought about their busy bodyness.
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👍👍👍
 
Catya said:
Our parish receives a lot of summertime visitors. Many of these folks come straight from the campsite or their boats to Mass. We welcome them however they come - just glad to have them 🙂
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This situation is one that shows precisely why the Church does not have, never will have, a universal dress code.

I have not objection to priests who want to post or even enforce a dress code. Some situations, like St. Peter’s may have such a need. I will personally never be in favor of any more than posting appropriate dress and homilies on modesty and reverence, though. If we treat any poorly stranger at the door with anything less than we would the well dressed businessman, then we are simply not Christian.
 
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