The Duggars Respond to Reports That Josh Duggar Was Accused of Child Molestation

[Della]

I recall a particularly shocking exchange from the Marriage Bed forum in which a husband, after constantly demanding that his wife allow anal sex, eventually forcibly sodomized her. Although some posters did support the victim and validated her violation, many others advised she forgive her husband for his “mistake”, some even seriously suggested that maybe the husband didn’t really mean to do it, he just “slipped”.

And while very few posters came right out and blamed the wife, some did seem to imply that she brought it on herself by refusing, that if she had agreed to consensual anal sex and hadn’t denied her husband his rights, he would have never had reason to rape her.

Of course, unfortunately, even some on CAF believe it is impossible for a man to rape his wife, because he is “owed the marital debt”, and engage in semantics about such actions, issuing the CYA disclaimer of “of course I’m not condoning this, of course it’s horrible” then stating “well you can say he sexually abused his wife but you can’t say he raped her, that only applies to men forcing sex on women they have no right to be having sex with in the first place!”

I also think even many Catholics would see a wife who gets the law involved in such a case, to be committing a worse sin than the husband himself did. And we even have had Catholics posting on this topic essentially stating they would handle such a situation the same way the Duggars did, that they find exposing their daughters to risk of ongoing predation to be the lesser of two evils, compared to exposing their sons to predators they might encounter in the secular correctional system.

Catholics who think along the lines you cited (the ones who believe the wife “owed” her husband a debt, meaning he can do whatever he wants) are misusing those terms to excuse inexcusable, criminal behavior.

Having written that, it’s also not up to us here to judge incidents/people about which we know nothing except what we’ve read in news reports/blogs, etc. If this is a matter for the law, the law should act. That is for a judge, and perhaps a jury, to determine. The judgment of general opinion is often wrong, which is why we have the rule of law, as I’m sure you agree.

The way the Duggar family handled this business was very much colored by their religious beliefs–ones we considered twisted and therefore damaging–which they are (this is the voice of experience). Many people act on their personal beliefs, be they atheistic/secular/religious in such matters. And many have very twisted ideas about such things. It’s a great pity that the truth is not as important as keeping true to one’s own beliefs, no matter how incongruent they may be to reality. All the more reason Catholics ought to know the truth and live the truth which subsists within the Church.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Gordon, I’ve agreed with almost everything you’ve posted about this, but I actually didn’t take what Michael Seewald wrote as a claim that all men have natural urges to commit sexual assault against children. I took it as a really poorly phrased way of making the “there but for the grace of God go I” argument that many Christians make when people fall into sin.

I am still disturbed by Seewald going public, even though some of his comments were actually reasonable, at least if he did so without any (name removed by moderator)ut or at least knowledge from his daughter-in-law, Jessa, that he was planning on doing so.

Even if Jessa wasn’t victimized herself, she must have been affected by the consequences Josh’s actions had on her sisters. Of course the show is heavily edited, but she has been fairly consistently portrayed as very engaged and caring when interacting with her sisters.

I’ve dealt with too many guys who have told me of the horrible things they’d do if there were no societal checks and balances to prevent it. I think Mr. Seewald really meant what he said as he said it, at least to some degree. I didn’t read the entirety of his essay but I read enough to see that he doesn’t have a realistic understanding of child sexual assault and has no leg to stand on when it comes to offering advice on it. I think the entire extended family needs someone to corral them and get them to quit making ignorant and possibly damaging statements until they can get some counseling and actual education about the issue.

 

[Sarcelle]

Bear in mind, however, that sexual abuse happens in nearly every culture, and sometimes, I would think, remains unreported.

We should be careful to neither excuse Josh Duggar’s behavior because he is “one of us,” nor indict him because he is “the other,” with regard to religion, politics, ethnicity, or social status. As I noted before, this is mainly a human drama in which punishment may be needed but not in the form of vindictiveness. Forgiveness, according to my faith’s beliefs, is something that primarily belongs to the victims of the crime, not to outsiders such as all of us, while repentance belongs to the perpetrator of the crime.

Forgiveness is the prerogative of the victim while repentance is the choice of the perpetrator. We as onlookers or bystanders should pray for the healing of the victims and the repentance of the perpetrator.

We should not hesitate to say that what Josh did is wrong and as a fourteen year old, he should know the difference between right and wrong. I’m sorry, but sexually molesting one’s siblings at their most vulnerable is not what most teenagers do. Teenagers may caught breaking curfew, making out with another their own age, cutting school, etc. But molesting one’s baby sisters? Come on!

I am getting the impression here that some posters think that what Josh did is all part and parcel of normal teenage misbehavior.

 

[estesbob]

I have noticed many in this thread who seriously dislike the Duggars but seem to have seen every episode of their show. Is the dislike solely because of the revelations about their son or were you watching them even though you disliked them?

 

[masondoggy]

While I have often been critical of some things that they do, I have been one of those who generally liked the Duggars and defended them many times over the years. I’ve enjoyed watching their show. The kids are adorable and it’s been a show I can sit and watch with my kids and not have to worry about the content.

But I am horrified and absolutely appalled at the way Jim Bob and Michelle handled all of this and I will no longer be their defenders. And I will never watch their show again because I do not want to contribute to the exploitation of those girls.

 

[estesbob]

While I have often been critical of some things that they do, I have been one of those who generally liked the Duggars and defended them many times over the years. I’ve enjoyed watching their show. The kids are adorable and it’s been a show I can sit and watch with my kids and not have to worry about the content.

But I am horrified and absolutely appalled at the way Jim Bob and Michelle handled all of this and I will no longer be their defenders. And I will never watch their show again because I do not want to contribute to the exploitation of those girls.

Do you feel a sense of betrayal? I have never seen the show but I am somewhat surprised how upset many are at them. I see you point, BTW. Will you be explaining to your kids why you are no longer watching the show.?

 

[DakiniArtist]

May I confess to you all, through this anonymous forum of fellow Catholics?

This situation has been very hard for me in several ways. It’s not a black and white situation (well, maybe…I’m struggling to keep up with all the information). I know in our case my stepson’s mother simply absconded with him over state lines and it was dropped. Before that, after the forensic interviews and such, the rationale by the judge and those in power was “order him to do some counseling and keep a restraining order from the home.” What an awful situation. My little girl has forgiven him. She has been, even the older detective and the psychologist who did the forensic exam and her crew, very wise and prayerful about the situation. She misses her brother and part of her suffers because, despite what we tell her, she thinks she is the reason he has missed two years for family events, such as a big wedding, and will miss some births. That’s been hard on all of us, my husband especially.

We used to watch this show together, as did my sister and her family. We are all done with it. I won’t bring it up. If my daughter asks to watch it again (if they every air it), I will say it’s “not on” or somehow word it so I don’t lie but don’t share this information with her. She’ll probably find out when she’s older. “Geez, even the Duggar kid did this to sisters” may be her thought. I confess the little, previously abused girl inside me felt this.

The guidance we were given in our situation, and the legal judgment were sparse. The boy served no time. People we knew who had the same story about their children being abused by him refused to speak up. They were afraid of the vengeance of the boy’s mother and her crazy friends. They also said, “Oh, yeah. The state won’t do anything. Why bother? We just keep him away from us.” The therapist treating my daughter told me “You will get divorced. One-hundred percent of the time that’s what I see and I’ve been doing this a long time.”

Look, I don’t know what the Duggars were told. I love my stepson and I know how much my heart aches for him daily and I only met him as an older elementary-aged kid. Had it been my own son, who’s the same age, I’d lose my mind. Having worked in mental health and residential with kids with probation officers and rap sheets, yeah, the innocent kids left our facilities more streetwise, having learned about all kinds of mischief, sexual deviancy, and ways to get high. Not wanting your child to go through “the system” is a valid concern.

I am not taking Mr. and Mrs. Duggar’s side here. I just know this situation has left me upset to the point I’ve been having nightmares and waking up screaming, which hasn’t happened in years. I’m so angry this happened. I hope they find out who did this to Josh (I do not believe he decided to fondle these girls in a vacuum). I pray the girls really do feel supported and do forgive him. Do I have concerns about the parents’ mental health? Sure! Michelle had years of body image issues and an eating disorder. Is Jim Bob as naive has he appears or what? Why have that many children then raise them on television? I have take them at face value for years, believing perhaps there is a bit of pathology there.

I’m just babbling at this point. I’m angry and I also, as a viewer, feel betrayed. I am also angry at the backlash this has caused. I have stayed off Facebook as much as possible. I get why folks have the vitriol they do for this family. A friend and I wondered the other day if the next big news story is “Josh Duggar Commits Suicide.” This is just an awful trainwreck.

Thanks for letting me vent, my friends. :grouphug:

Prayers for the girls and to their support.

 

[elsker]

The thing that I’m confused about is if during the development phase of the show (which can take many months or years) was TLC aware of what happened or did it happen during the show development? Seems TLC is getting blasted for supposedly being party to this situation but did they actually know anything? The events happened 2 years prior to the shows airing so that might mean that TLC came into the family after the abuse or at the tail end of it. Was the arrival of TLC really what halted the abuse or was TLC completely in the dark about it? Just curious. I never watch reality tv so I have no clue what access TLC had into the lives of the family.

What I find interesting is that TLC has not announced the cancellation of the show but instead is floating the idea that Josh be written out of the program. But Honey Boo Boo was totally cancelled due to who her mother was dating and now June is calling hypocrisy. This man had molested her daughter years before so it is very similar so shouldn’t the same standard apply? If they are willing to keep a show running where incest was an issue but close a show where unrelated sex abuse was an issue-both prior to the airing of the show-then they both should be allowed to continue or both be cancelled. My opinion is that Honey Boo Boo was cancelled because the star was no longer little and the cute factor had run it’s course while 19 kids are still churning out cute babies so it has a sustainable appeal.

Just my 2 cents. Either way you slice it the private lives of others should never be exploited for entertainment purposes and ringing people up for being sinners makes no sense when we don’t know them personally and at the end of the day we are all sinners in need of salvation.

 

[masondoggy]

Do you feel a sense of betrayal? I have never seen the show but I am somewhat surprised how upset many are at them. I see you point, BTW. Will you be explaining to your kids why you are no longer watching the show.?

I wouldn’t really call it feeling betrayal. I’m not that invested to take it personally. I do think they’ve been hypocritical and I agree with those secular people who feel they had no business joining in the whole gay marriage debate and lecturing others on sexual morality (at least Josh…he had NO business taking the job that he did with this in his past). I feel that they have seriously damaged the Christian position on this matter.

My older kids are already aware of the whole controversy (they’re older teens with FB accounts). I probably won’t say anything about it to my youngest. If the show gets cancelled, I doubt he would even think to ask where it went. And if he brought it up, he’s too young to explain this mess to. I’ll just tell him it’s cancelled, end of story.

 

[Memaw]

While I have often been critical of some things that they do, I have been one of those who generally liked the Duggars and defended them many times over the years. I’ve enjoyed watching their show. The kids are adorable and it’s been a show I can sit and watch with my kids and not have to worry about the content.

But I am horrified and absolutely appalled at the way Jim Bob and Michelle handled all of this and I will no longer be their defenders. And I will never watch their show again because I do not want to contribute to the exploitation of those girls.

Don’t think you have to worry about that because they have stopped showing them. I am shocked at how fast some are to condemn even before they know all the facts. ( Can’t trust the media to tell the truth). We look the other way from same sex activity, abortion, porn and many other serious problems, (mostly done by ADULTS) in our society to pound one young family man into the ground because of something he did as a young boy and has repented, asked forgiveness from his God and made a good life for himself since. His family, (including the sisters), seems to be more forgiving than most of us are. We should be praying for them and also for ourselves for being so judgmental. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Walking_Home]

I wouldn’t really call it feeling betrayal. I’m not that invested to take it personally.** I do think they’ve been hypocritical and I agree with those secular people who feel they had no business joining in the whole gay marriage debate and lecturing others on sexual morality (at least Josh…he had NO business taking the job that he did with this in his past). I feel that they have seriously damaged the Christian position on this matter. **

My older kids are already aware of the whole controversy (they’re older teens with FB accounts). I probably won’t say anything about it to my youngest. If the show gets cancelled, I doubt he would even think to ask where it went. And if he brought it up, he’s too young to explain this mess to. I’ll just tell him it’s cancelled, end of story.

---

Ditto.

 

[kozlosap]

Don’t think you have to worry about that because they have stopped showing them. I am shocked at how fast some are to condemn even before they know all the facts. ( Can’t trust the media to tell the truth). We look the other way from same sex activity, abortion, porn and many other serious problems, (mostly done by ADULTS) in our society to pound one young family man into the ground because of something he did as a young boy and has repented, asked forgiveness from his God and made a good life for himself since. His family, (including the sisters), seems to be more forgiving than most of us are. We should be praying for them and also for ourselves for being so judgmental. God Bless, Memaw

I am praying for the poor girls. There is nothing for the collective “us” to forgive. It’s obvious that in the wacko Quiverfull culture that even abuse, as long as it is perpetrated by a male, is to be swept under the rug and the victims marginalized. Josh made a so called good life for himself by not telling his new employer that he was a serial molester. Granted, any organization that would hire, as a top manager, a person with a GED is odd, but they did not deserve the bad press that his story has brought. As I said before, 14 year olds know exactly what they are doing, especially when it is serial and plans had to be in place for his access to the poor girls, especially the four year old. As far as I’m concerned his parents are the ones who should be punished - it’s against Gods law for a woman to have short hair or dress normally, but all is to be OK when your perfect male child uses his sisters as if they were sex toys. Disgusting beyond words.

 

[LongingSoul]

Don’t think you have to worry about that because they have stopped showing them. I am shocked at how fast some are to condemn even before they know all the facts. ( Can’t trust the media to tell the truth). We look the other way from same sex activity, abortion, porn and many other serious problems, (mostly done by ADULTS) in our society to pound one young family man into the ground because of something he did as a young boy and has repented, asked forgiveness from his God and made a good life for himself since. His family, (including the sisters), seems to be more forgiving than most of us are. We should be praying for them and also for ourselves for being so judgmental. God Bless, Memaw

I think that justice looks for some redress within a flawed justice system and that community response to an action such as this can be quite natural without being judgmental. What Josh did just wasn’t dealt with by the law or the family in a way that respected the daughters… not just the victims but all the women in the home. It seems to have been explained away and covered up when the rightful outcome should have at least have been that Josh was completely separated from the females in the house. If that means going to live with grandparents or a childless adult relative for the last four years as a legal minor, the so be it. (Although I left home to work in the city when I was 17 and have been happily independent of my parents since then.) What’s happening in the public forum now, is at least letting the daughters and all young women who have endured and tolerated forcible fondling at some time in their life, that this isn’t normal behaviour. It’s animalistic and sick. It’s more like Sharia Law where even as recently as last year in Iran, a woman was executed for being a rape victim.

I remember my grandmother telling me the story of a neighbour in the small town they lived. The woman was regularly beaten and raped by her drunk husband but back then the law left the marriage alone as the husbands rightful domain. The women in the street would collect in front of the house and bang on the fence with sticks and pans when they could hear him raping her to try and shame him in front of the rest of the street. He ended up being shunned out of town by the reaction of the community to his abuse.

Justice will find a way in a society striving to be civilised and respectful of women, even if the letter of the law doesn’t reflect the redress.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I am praying for the poor girls. There is nothing for the collective “us” to forgive. It’s obvious that in the wacko Quiverfull culture that even abuse, as long as it is perpetrated by a male, is to be swept under the rug and the victims marginalized. Josh made a so called good life for himself by not telling his new employer that he was a serial molester. Granted, any organization that would hire, as a top manager, a person with a GED is odd, but they did not deserve the bad press that his story has brought. As I said before, 14 year olds know exactly what they are doing, especially when it is serial and plans had to be in place for his access to the poor girls, especially the four year old. As far as I’m concerned his parents are the ones who should be punished - it’s against Gods law for a woman to have short hair or dress normally, but all is to be OK when your perfect male child uses his sisters as if they were sex toys. Disgusting beyond words.

As a homeschooler I am offended at your statements about education. As a Catholic I am shocked that you would decide that because of this incident the “Quiverfull culture” is to blame. Sounds a lot like the anti religious who rail against the Church for sex abuse cover ups. As for the rest I agree. However appalling and deviant Josh’s actions were at age 14. Jim Bobs are way worse. To take this and not only cover it up, hide it, but then to go ahead and knowing this was an event take to the network and cash the checks knowing full well that making a deal with the devil would probably come back to ultimately hurt and abuse the family more than Josh ever did. A dad should protect, not be reckless. Is that part of the patriarchal beliefs they have?!

 

[JonNC]

I am praying for the poor girls. There is nothing for the collective “us” to forgive. It’s obvious that in the wacko Quiverfull culture that even abuse, as long as it is perpetrated by a male, is to be swept under the rug and the victims marginalized. Josh made a so called good life for himself by not telling his new employer that he was a serial molester. Granted, any organization that would hire, as a top manager, a person with a GED is odd, but they did not deserve the bad press that his story has brought. **As I said before, 14 year olds know exactly what they are doing, **especially when it is serial and plans had to be in place for his access to the poor girls, especially the four year old. As far as I’m concerned his parents are the ones who should be punished - it’s against Gods law for a woman to have short hair or dress normally, but all is to be OK when your perfect male child uses his sisters as if they were sex toys. Disgusting beyond words.

You must clearly be in favor of a change in the age of consent to age 14. If “14 year olds know exactly what they are doing”, then there is no dispute. Yes?
The age of consent, ISTM, is in place based on the idea that 14 year old do** not** know exactly what they are doing. We’ve all heard many pedophiles use that claim regarding their 14 or 15 year old victim - “They knew exactly what they were doing.”

Jon

 

[MaryT777]

You must clearly be in favor of a change in the age of consent to age 14. If “14 year olds know exactly what they are doing”, then there is no dispute. Yes?

Jon

What is your point Jon. He is not culpable for this sin morally due to his age?
Not everything is just a legal issue.

Mary.

 

[elsker]

What is your point Jon. He is not culpable for this sin morally due to his age?
Not everything is just a legal issue.

Mary.

Even if you change the age of consent that doesn’t make incest any less illegal. I fear that we might be getting to a place where morality is a numbers game and its just a matter of playing with the numbers so that what was once immoral and illegal will become a mere technicality that can be “fixed” through the legislative process.

 

[Lou2U]

You must clearly be in favor of a change in the age of consent to age 14. If “14 year olds know exactly what they are doing”, then there is no dispute. Yes?
The age of consent, ISTM, is in place based on the idea that 14 year old do** not** know exactly what they are doing. We’ve all heard many pedophiles use that claim regarding their 14 or 15 year old victim - “They knew exactly what they were doing.”

Jon

Did you know that at age 14 molesting young children was wrong? I know I did.

This isn’t about two fourteen year olds having underage sex. This is about a fourteen year old boy who molested five young girls, four of whom were his siblings. I’m not sure why you made the suggestion that since Josh knew what he was doing, the age of consent should be lowered. This is completely false and offensive to those on this thread who have suffered from sexual abuse - to say that it is a matter of consent if the peperpetrator knows what they are doing is wrong.

Lou

 

[Jeanne_S]

What is your point Jon. He is not culpable for this sin morally due to his age?
Not everything is just a legal issue.

Mary.

Exactly! This type of behavior is more deep seated than a mere youthful indiscretion.

 

[MaryT777]

Even if you change the age of consent that doesn’t make incest any less illegal. I fear that we might be getting to a place where morality is a numbers game and its just a matter of playing with the numbers so that what was once immoral and illegal will become a mere technicality that can be “fixed” through the legislative process.

Thank you and exactly.

Have Mercy on us and on the Whole World.

Mary.