The Duggars Respond to Reports That Josh Duggar Was Accused of Child Molestation

[Burt_Macklin]

Big suprise…$$$$$$$ talks and holds a lot of power

Nothing but speculation at this point. Nobody knows why the Duggars appealed or why they were successful.

 

[Sophie_Lawrence]

A new item at In Touch, which broke the story, starts to provide answers to where child protective services was when law enforcement was told about the molestation:

An earlier article in the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette confirms that investigators had “filed a ‘family in need of services’ affidavit with Washington County Juvenile Court,” and that one of their reporters had discovered the “sealed Washington County Circuit Court file for Josh Duggar vs. the Arkansas Department of Human Services” in 2007, which noted that a “trial in that case took place Aug. 6, 2007.”

So, child protective services was contacted by police and did get involved and made some kind of ruling that the Duggars did not like like. They appealed the decision, which resulted in a trial, the outcome of which is unknown.

It’s impossible to say exactly what happened here, but it appears that child welfare intervened on behalf of Josh Duggar’s victims, and he and his parents used their wealth and influence to undermine that decision.

Could you please explain what you mean by the highlighted part. Do you feel they used their “wealth and influence” to get a lawyer and file a lawsuit? Or are you referring to something more sinister like bribery?

These records are sealed, so we can only guess what happened.

 

[masondoggy]

Nothing but speculation at this point. Nobody knows why the Duggars appealed or why they were successful.

I don’t think we know whether they were successful in the appeal or not…or even whether it was an appeal or not. The only thing known is that there was a case between josh duggar and DHS.

 

[Walking_Home]

As the house of cards keeps crumbling:

Jim Bob Dugger’s Positional Statements – when he was running for the Senate in 2002.

In 2002, Jim Bob Duggar said incest should be a capital crime

arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/archives/2015/05/26/in-2002-jim-bob-duggar-said-incest-should-be-a-capital-crime

 

[Memaw]

You forget that the heart of Catholicism is mercy and love, not judgment and condemnation. We cannot know all the dynamics of what happened and what was in Josh’s mind and what his parents believed would help him. We can’t judge without evidence/proof nor can we denigrate anyone for any reason. Merely saying that there may have been mitigating circumstances cannot be taken as approbation for skewed beliefs and a lack of action to prevent/amend the abuse that took place. A person can commit grave sin without being fully culpable. I’m not defending reprehensible behavior nor the “women are our servants” attitude so prominent among the sub-culture within Evangelicalism, but neither can I take it on myself to judge when I don’t have all the facts nor am I in the position of doing anything about it.

AMEN and God Bless, Memaw

 

[Gordon_Sims]

You forget that the heart of Catholicism is mercy and love, not judgment and condemnation. We cannot know all the dynamics of what happened and what was in Josh’s mind and what his parents believed would help him. We can’t judge without evidence/proof nor can we denigrate anyone for any reason. Merely saying that there may have been mitigating circumstances cannot be taken as approbation for skewed beliefs and a lack of action to prevent/amend the abuse that took place. A person can commit grave sin without being fully culpable. I’m not defending reprehensible behavior nor the “women are our servants” attitude so prominent among the sub-culture within Evangelicalism, but neither can I take it on myself to judge when I don’t have all the facts nor am I in the position of doing anything about it.

The most merciful and loving response to a situation like this is to bring in the authorities and get everybody the help they need. The police report makes it clear that the Duggars did not do that. They knew about the abuse and did nothing to stop it. They mishandled the situation and left all their children in jeopardy. They took an active role in ensuring that Josh did not face appropriate consequences for his actions. One can almost excuse their ignorance for not handling it properly the first time, but Josh molested his sisters over and over and over again. Their handling of this, especially considering what’s implied with the most recent report, was deplorable and inexcusable.

Everyone who is minimizing his actions and saying that we should show mercy and not judge needs to get it into their heads that this isn’t a matter of someone sinning and needing to repent. Child sexual abuse can’t be prayed away. It’s a horrific offense that, if not dealt with properly, can affect multiple victims across multiple generations of a family. Turning Josh over to the authorities and getting the entire family the help they needed was the only responsible way to handle this.

 

[Walking_Home]

Della:

You forget that the heart of Catholicism is mercy and love, not judgment and condemnation. We cannot know all the dynamics of what happened and what was in Josh’s mind and what his parents believed would help him. We can’t judge without evidence/proof nor can we denigrate anyone for any reason. Merely saying that there may have been mitigating circumstances cannot be taken as approbation for skewed beliefs and a lack of action to prevent/amend the abuse that took place. A person can commit grave sin without being fully culpable. I’m not defending reprehensible behavior nor the “women are our servants” attitude so prominent among the sub-culture within Evangelicalism, but neither can I take it on myself to judge when I don’t have all the facts nor am I in the position of doing anything about it.

The most merciful and loving response to a situation like this is to bring in the authorities and get everybody the help they need. The police report makes it clear that the Duggars did not do that. They knew about the abuse and did nothing to stop it. They mishandled the situation and left all their children in jeopardy. They took an active role in ensuring that Josh did not face appropriate consequences for his actions. One can almost excuse their ignorance for not handling it properly the first time, but Josh molested his sisters over and over and over again. Their handling of this, especially considering what’s implied with the most recent report, was deplorable and inexcusable.

Everyone who is minimizing his actions and saying that we should show mercy and not judge needs to get it into their heads that this isn’t a matter of someone sinning and needing to repent. Child sexual abuse can’t be prayed away. It’s a horrific offense that, if not dealt with properly, can affect multiple victims across multiple generations of a family. Turning Josh over to the authorities and getting the entire family the help they needed was the only responsible way to handle this.

---

 

[Dawnia]

Nothing but speculation at this point. Nobody knows why the Duggars appealed or why they were successful.

Or if they were successful.

 

[simple_soul]

The most merciful and loving response to a situation like this is to bring in the authorities and get everybody the help they need. The police report makes it clear that the Duggars did not do that. They knew about the abuse and did nothing to stop it. They mishandled the situation and left all their children in jeopardy. They took an active role in ensuring that Josh did not face appropriate consequences for his actions. One can almost excuse their ignorance for not handling it properly the first time, but Josh molested his sisters over and over and over again. Their handling of this, especially considering what’s implied with the most recent report, was deplorable and inexcusable.

Everyone who is minimizing his actions and saying that we should show mercy and not judge needs to get it into their heads that this isn’t a matter of someone sinning and needing to repent. Child sexual abuse can’t be prayed away. It’s a horrific offense that, if not dealt with properly, can affect multiple victims across multiple generations of a family. Turning Josh over to the authorities and getting the entire family the help they needed was the only responsible way to handle this.

Hi Gordan. I am so thankful you have contributed to this thread. Your posts have help me and reassured me and have been a saving Grace for me over the last few days. But even though I understand and agree with you that thier actions were deplorable and inexcusable I also may have some insight into why they took the actions they took and it is persicely because it is something that can transfer over a spread of generations along with the methods of how to “handle” it. From what I understand of situations like this is that the roots and causes and methods of how to handle it are so generationally rooted that it is very complexed and so multy layered it’s horrifying and extremely scary. One of the most engrained roots is a mistrust of physycogists and physycology to begin with. Then there is the mistrust of a corrupt government and Church. This is bred into the mindset of why and how molestation needs to be handled in an iner cyrcle and there are all kinds of stats out there to back up the distrust and to reaffirm that they are alone in trying to handle the abuse. I disagree or just plain don’t understand how this is not faith based. It is thier dark, twisted, and missguided fearful understanding of thier faith but still faith based. To put it quite simply they are ignorant and do not know another way and do not understand the depth and phsycology that you do. You understand and see indepth how it ruines and destroys life. They can not see or just do not have this indepth understanding for what ever the reason may be and I beleive that this is he reason others are asking for compassion and mercy. Even physiologist will tell you that what they understand now about our human mind and how it is influenced and how it works and how it responds has evolved and grown over the years and generations. It’s just that it has not quite caught up to everyone yet and that is, I believe, why others are asking for some compassion and mercy. It not that they want thier actions to be excused but more like understood why they took the coarse of actions they did take. I hope that makes some sense.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

I don’t think the report that Josh sued DHS in 2007 implies he (or his parents) did anything corrupt or untoward. Not saying they SHOULD have appealed, but as the article itself states, everyone has the right to appeal. Certainly, there have been enough horror stories (some posted even on CAF) about child welfare agencies over-reaching, and often this is the reason many parents for give for NOT getting them involved, out of fear that such involvement would lead to breakup of the family, and do more harm than good. If there was no appeal process at all, I’m sure even more people would choose to not get DHS involved in the first place.

So although I’ve been very critical of how the Duggars handled this, without knowing the details, I actually think it’s premature to assume that the Duggars used their political influence here. We don’t even know if Josh “won” the case.

It does, however, cast more doubt on his claims that he truly was repentant. Although it is possible it was his parents driving this more than Josh himself. After all, it was only a year after, in 2008, that TLC picked up the Duggars as a full-time show (they had been on Discovery Health and TLC before that, but only as occasional “specials”.) If DHS had ordered Josh to be separated from the rest of the family, that certainly would have affected the viability of the show, since Josh was focused on as the “star” early on in the program.

Although I will say, I doubt the TLC execs were completely in the dark about these goings-on. If they were, they were incompetent, if not, then…well, the words I have to describe them would probably break Forum rules. And BTW, no one can tie the (in)actions of people at TLC to their religious beliefs, unless of course we tie it to their worship of Mammon/the almighty dollar.

As for the question of whether it’s valid to blame the Duggars’ religious beliefs for what happened; I have browsed secular sites regarding this story, and it is true that many people there are using this scandal as ammunition to discredit their beliefs regarding homosexuality, birth control, etc. I’ve even come across some atheists trying to use this to discredit not even Christianty, but “theism” in general. If that’s what Hoosier Daddy is objecting to, I’d totally agree with that.

I also have seen people suggesting that if Josh had been allowed to sexually experiment with peers the way “normal” teens do, then this wouldn’t have happened. Well, I think that is total BS, much as when anti-Catholics blamed priestly celibacy for the sexual abuse scandal.

Many kids are raised by conservative parents who teach them that premarital sexual activity is a sin. While many do rebel against such teachings, very few 14-15 year olds of any belief system, molest pre-pubescent 5 year olds the way Josh did.

So, I don’t think the Duggar’s religious beliefs are to blame for what Josh himself did, and it certainly can’t explain why they took the risk they did that this would become public.

However, I DO think it’s not completely inappropriate to point out that the idea of a family patriarch being totally responsible for the conduct of his family members, MIGHT have contributed to the way they (mis)handled this. If Jim Bob had gotten secular authorities involved, this pretty much would have been an admission that he himself was a failure because he couldn’t keep his own son in line. We’ve even seen posters on this topic endorse similar ideas, that getting secular authorities involved should be an absolute last resort, when all other measures have failed.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

So, I don’t think the Duggar’s religious beliefs are to blame for what Josh himself did, and it certainly can’t explain why they took the risk they did that this would become public.

You don’t believe that the Duggar’s belief that they are required to have as many children as humanly possible contributed to the neglectful upbringing that both Josh and his sisters experienced? You don’t think that their belief that the wife is to remain submissive and silent affected the way that Josh’s crime was handled?

Sibling sexual abuse victims often live in dysfunctional family environments that subtly foster incestuous behaviors and are not conducive to disclosing the secret. Sibling incest appears more likely to occur in large families characterized by physical and emotional violence, marital discord, explicit and implicit sexual tensions, and blurred intrafamilial boundaries. Emotionally and/or physically absent parents may empower older siblings to assume parental roles. In short, these families are chaotic and unlikely to recognize the significance of behaviors occurring between siblings. If sexual behaviors are noticed, they are likely to be minimized and misinterpreted as a normal aspect of childhood development. Lack of adequate parental supervision provides perpetrators with ongoing opportunities to offend and protects the secret, leaving the victim vulnerable to continuing abuse (Asherman & Safier, 1990; Caffaro & Conn-Caffaro, 2005).

source

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I don’t think the report that Josh sued DHS in 2007 implies he (or his parents) did anything corrupt or untoward. Not saying they SHOULD have appealed, but as the article itself states, everyone has the right to appeal. Certainly, there have been enough horror stories (some posted even on CAF) about child welfare agencies over-reaching, and often this is the reason many parents for give for NOT getting them involved, out of fear that such involvement would lead to breakup of the family, and do more harm than good. If there was no appeal process at all, I’m sure even more people would choose to not get DHS involved in the first place.

So although I’ve been very critical of how the Duggars handled this, without knowing the details, I actually think it’s premature to assume that the Duggars used their political influence here. We don’t even know if Josh “won” the case.

It does, however, cast more doubt on his claims that he truly was repentant. Although it is possible it was his parents driving this more than Josh himself. After all, it was only a year after, in 2008, that TLC picked up the Duggars as a full-time show (they had been on Discovery Health and TLC before that, but only as occasional “specials”.) If DHS had ordered Josh to be separated from the rest of the family, that certainly would have affected the viability of the show, since Josh was focused on as the “star” early on in the program.

Although I will say, I doubt the TLC execs were completely in the dark about these goings-on. If they were, they were incompetent, if not, then…well, the words I have to describe them would probably break Forum rules. And BTW, no one can tie the (in)actions of people at TLC to their religious beliefs, unless of course we tie it to their worship of Mammon/the almighty dollar.

As for the question of whether it’s valid to blame the Duggars’ religious beliefs for what happened; I have browsed secular sites regarding this story, and it is true that many people there are using this scandal as ammunition to discredit their beliefs regarding homosexuality, birth control, etc. I’ve even come across some atheists trying to use this to discredit not even Christianty, but “theism” in general. If that’s what Hoosier Daddy is objecting to, I’d totally agree with that.

I also have seen people suggesting that if Josh had been allowed to sexually experiment with peers the way “normal” teens do, then this wouldn’t have happened. Well, I think that is total BS, much as when anti-Catholics blamed priestly celibacy for the sexual abuse scandal.

Many kids are raised by conservative parents who teach them that premarital sexual activity is a sin. While many do rebel against such teachings, very few 14-15 year olds of any belief system, molest pre-pubescent 5 year olds the way Josh did.

So, I don’t think the Duggar’s religious beliefs are to blame for what Josh himself did, and it certainly can’t explain why they took the risk they did that this would become public.

However, I DO think it’s not completely inappropriate to point out that the idea of a family patriarch being totally responsible for the conduct of his family members, MIGHT have contributed to the way they (mis)handled this. If Jim Bob had gotten secular authorities involved, this pretty much would have been an admission that he himself was a failure because he couldn’t keep his own son in line. We’ve even seen posters on this topic endorse similar ideas, that getting secular authorities involved should be an absolute last resort, when all other measures have failed.

Yes, this is exactly my point. And I dont think we do our own faith any favors in the public eye by piling on the Duggars. I wonder if the same people who decry the Duggars theology are as vocal about real theological abuse and threats and patriarchal movements that harm far more people. Um, here is looking at you Islam… My hunch is that those people would not be as critical of Islamists because well, gee that would be judgemental. I would like to see less hypocrisy and more logic involved. You want to talk about Goddard patriarchal theology? Ok fine, but then you better be on the threads and points about islamic abuse of women… Sadly, I doubt that is the case.

Now on to good ol Jim Bob.

In sports, real champions, real competitors want the ball when the game is on the line. Every guy on the floor in an NBA game wants that final shot. Every Football QB wants the ball in his hands at the end of the game. Every tennis player wants the match on His racquet Every baseball player wants that last at bat with two out bottom of the ninth.

My point is that they want all the responsibility and power. But with that shot at glory, they also risk being the goat. Being the guy that struck out, being the player that missed the game winner or threw and interception. And they take that risk. The ones who do not make good decisions on a regular basis are not going to be the champions, the winners.
So, if Jim Bob wishes to be “THE guy” in his family. In his domestic Church. I have no problem with that theology. I think there is good backing for it, though I do not think that it is something that we MUST do. But, if you are “THE guy” you better darn well protect and lead your family. You better make darn sure that your decisions do not harm those you feel it is your charge by God to protect and lead! I find Jim Bob to be the offender here, over and above a 14 year old boy!

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

You don’t believe that the Duggar’s belief that they are required to have as many children as humanly possible contributed to the neglectful upbringing that both Josh and his sisters experienced? You don’t think that their belief that the wife is to remain submissive and silent affected the way that Josh’s crime was handled?

source

The Duggars believed that?

 

[ToeInTheWater]

You don’t believe that the Duggar’s belief that they are required to have as many children as humanly possible contributed to the neglectful upbringing that both Josh and his sisters experienced? You don’t think that their belief that the wife is to remain submissive and silent affected the way that Josh’s crime was handled?

It MAY have, but there’s no proof the Duggars neglected their children. I’m also not even sure they believe the wife should be “submissive and silent” Submissive, yes, but Michelle Duggar has certainly NOT been silent either on the show or in other venues.

While I have a number of concerns about wifely submission, MANY Christians teach this, including most Catholics (though some temper it with the idea of mutual submission), I certainly wouldn’t use this incident to argue against it.

I do think their beliefs could have set them up to generally value the welfare of their son, Josh, and to prioritize protecting him from what he could encounter in “juvie”, over the welfare of their daughters and protecting them. But I don’t see why you’re suddenly blaming wifely submission for that, since as I recall you actually stated you agreed that Josh shouldn’t have been subjected to the juvenile justice system, either.

 

[Walking_Home]

Burt Macklin:

You don’t believe that the Duggar’s belief that they are required to have as many children as humanly possible contributed to the neglectful upbringing that both Josh and his sisters experienced? You don’t think that their belief that the wife is to remain submissive and silent affected the way that Josh’s crime was handled?

The Duggars believed that?

---

Back sometime in the early years of the show — it came out that Michelle Duggar weaned her babies early from breastfeeding – to help ensure that her fertility came back in preparation for the next pregnancy.

 

[elsker]

I just think the “cultural” excuse is hogwash. This isn’t some third world country. There is no excuse for what was done and how it was handled. Period.

And now I have that song stuck in my head! Lol

I agree, however, when you try to reason with people who believe in sorting things out in private their comeback is always,“that’s not how WE do things HERE.” I have a relative from FT SMITH, ARKANSAS and she confirms that when issues of abuse happen (child or spousal) over there no one goes to the authorities and they view people that do as somehow breaking the honored “code of silence”. Lets just say when she tried to get help for herself she paid dearly for it.

America is so big and each state perceives itself as a stand alone entity so that yes you do get the impression of cultural differences from state to state. You might as well say that the U.S. is 50 little countries stitched together by one constitution even though each state also has a constitution-why is that! No one would ever confuse CALIFORNIA for ARKANSAS ever!

 

[BChartowski]

I agree, however, when you try to reason with people who believe in sorting things out in private their comeback is always,“that’s not how WE do things HERE.” I have a relative from FT SMITH, ARKANSAS and she confirms that when issues of abuse happen (child or spousal) over there no one goes to the authorities and they view people that do as somehow breaking the honored “code of silence”. Lets just say when she tried to get help for herself she paid dearly for it.

America is so big and each state perceives itself as a stand alone entity so that yes you do get the impression of cultural differences from state to state. You might as well say that the U.S. is 50 little countries stitched together by one constitution even though each state also has a constitution-why is that! No one would ever confuse CALIFORNIA for ARKANSAS ever!

I’m not saying it’s right to hide abuse, and it’s certainly not right for someone seeking help to suffer punishment.

I do want to address your observation about each state being a stand-alone entity; the United States was created, specifically, as a union of independent states with one general constitution limiting the federal power over the states. I don’t mean for this to be insulting, but it appears that you may not know about how this country was designed. With that in mind I find a sense of intrigue that you’ve described the basics of how it’s supposed work. People in California don’t get to tell people in Arkansas how to live - and vice versa; it prevents any one state and the federal government from having too much power. This leaves aside the many breaches of the United States Constitution, but that’s for a different thread.

 

[Memaw]

I’m not saying it’s right to hide abuse, and it’s certainly not right for someone seeking help to suffer punishment.

I do want to address your observation about each state being a stand-alone entity; the United States was created, specifically, as a union of independent states with one general constitution limiting the federal power over the states. I don’t mean for this to be insulting, but it appears that you may not know about how this country was designed. With that in mind I find a sense of intrigue that you’ve described the basics of how it’s supposed work. People in California don’t get to tell people in Arkansas how to live - and vice versa; it prevents any one state and the federal government from having too much power. This leaves aside the many breaches of the United States Constitution, but that’s for a different thread.

Someone needs to explain this to our president !! God Bless, Memaw

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

---

Back sometime in the early years of the show — it came out that Michelle Duggar weaned her babies early from breastfeeding – to help ensure that her fertility came back in preparation for the next pregnancy.

And this somehow condemns her that she believes she MUST have as many children as possible and neglect the others? Many Catholic women do just the same thing especially if they marry late and are at the end of fertility. I know several women who had one child and wished to have another right away and so quit breastfeeding.

I think we should charitably stick to the facts and not engage in conjecture. That same conjecture mind you that many who say “Catholics are irresponsible breeders for not believing in ABC” engage in.

Really people!? Is the infighting and hatred of traditional views so abhorrent to us that we throw logic out the window and condemn others for things that could have legitimate places in our own faith? And Indeed has for many cultures and periods in Catholic history?

How about just seeing the evil of the situation for what it is, and not use it to defame a religion or way of life. Isn’t that done enough to us that we should know better?

 

[zaffiroborant]

I am not sure what you are talking about. Perhaps your view on homeschooling is skewed. What is your point? Just like any other thing that people wish to bring up about the Duggars counter cultural life, this has nothing to do with what happened.

It is ignorant to join the crowd saying “homeschoolers!, Modest dressing! Sexually repressed! patriarchal religion” because they have nothing to do with what happened. Or if they do have something to do with it, it is the same level of involvement that the Catholic Church has having their own schools, modesty (dress code at Vatican) (chastity defending) From an all male priesthood. All of those things are good and Holy and they do not contribute to the molestation scandals the Church had… But anti Catholics sure to like to pick on those things. Lets make sure we are not doing the same for the duggars.

I don’t see why you mentioned homeschooling in the first place. The post you quoted said nothing about homeschooling at all, the closest it came to education was mentioning that Josh had a GED.