I would argue that legitimate criticism is not defamatory. Reasonable people can differ as to whether it is appropriate for daddy to monitor the texts of his adult daughters. If someone argues that such behavior is abhorrent, they are offering a legitimate opinion. Now, Jim Bob might not like that opinion, but that is his legitimate right as well.
Yes, but my point is that all of that is separate from the situation at hand. Adult daughter text monitoring aside, What josh and Jim Bob, and Michelle did should be condemned on it’s own, and we should not piggy back on the tragedy to make an ideological point that has nothing to do with the tragedy just because we disagree with the theology and ideology of the people in question. Or should we apply that to our own faith as well. Did the Church’s views on premarital sex, modesty, chastity, and an all male priesthood cause the abuse in the Church and subsequent cover up? Because that is what others say. They used the tragedy to advance their own theological and ideological beliefs and condemn ours.
Many Catholic women do just the same thing especially if they marry late and are at the end of fertility. I know several women who had one child and wished to have another right away and so quit breastfeeding.
As a mom of four, this really bothers me and speaks to perhaps a pathology with Mrs. Duggar. To be clear, I’m not judging her. And goodness knows I’m nowhere near a great mom. But this seems…odd. Worrisome. But what is “weaning early?” Nursing for a minimum of one year is best; it’s formula for less than that, per research.
Quiverfull or ideological breeding… are not ‘traditional’ views though. Many Catholics did have a lot of children but that was due more to the Catholic cultural worldview at the time being predisposed to accepting of a large family and to rejecting the contraceptive techniques of the time ie. withdrawal. People didn’t purpose breed with the goal of spreading Catholicism though. Abstinence, although a trial, has always been seen as a grace and edifying marital practice in the wise planning of the family size. One would more accurately say that nfp is far more ‘traditional’ than quiverfull breeding.
You and others are getting all these things confused. The mistake of the quiverfull movement and subsequent views are not part of the thread at hand.
You and others are getting all these things confused. The mistake of the quiverfull movement and subsequent views are not part of the thread at hand.
You don’t agree or like a belief. That is fine and can be debated logically and theologically on numerous threads. But to use this as a sounding board for everything anti Duggar theology is bad theology and logic.
The fact is that the Duggars like it or not put forth a positive face on many of the principles we as Catholics struggle to defend. Their fall hurts Catholics as well. So we can infight and talk about the evil Goddard people, but to the entire world that falls on deaf ears. We (the Church) took a shot with this fall as much as, or even worse than, the Quiverfull movement.
I have five kids. That is a far cry from 19. But my family already refers to us as the Duggars. In a condescending way. In their minds, my faith, and my sexuality and family took the same hit as the duggars. But I’m supposed to say, “yeah, josh and Jim Bob did what they did because of their beliefs?” Ok… But to every one else, my beliefs of a large family and a spiritual head of the household are on par with the duggars. As I tell my daughters they cannot be priests, my family sees that as patriarchal and oppressive…
Bottom line, using this tragedy and using the Duggar girl victims as political and ideological ammunition is just as irresponsible as Jim Bob’s handling of the situation.
I agree with you regarding the pathological flawed-ness of the ‘purpose breeder’. We don’t own our children and can’t expect to have them in order to serve our purposes in life. We nurture them to the best of our ability to become the people they are meant to be for Gods unique purpose for them.
Yes! Yes yes yes to the first paragraph.
Thank you for articulating this so well. My point was if you are depriving your current children to have more, that is suspicious. You may then be feeding your own psychological needs rather than putting your family first.
And that is the same thing levied at the Church for the Abuse scandals. I assume you subscribe to the Catholic theology of an all male priesthood that we call “father” and the blessing of children and the sacredness of the sacraments? All of those foreign beliefs were blamed for the abuse in our own house. But apparently, we have learned nothing apart from what a few “safe environment” course have taught us.
Amen. Its like passing a car wreck. You know you shouldn’t look but cant help yourself.Thank goodness we have past 1000 posts… The pain is almost over…
Yup. Same here.
He is not morally culpable in the same way an adult is. He was a child himself. That’s not an excuse. That’s a reason, and a 14 year old, by our own laws, has less accountability than an adult for their actions.
And that is the same thing levied at the Church for the Abuse scandals. ** I assume you subscribe to the Catholic theology of an all male priesthood that we call “father” and the blessing of children and the sacredness of the sacraments? ** All of those foreign beliefs were blamed for the abuse in our own house. But apparently, we have learned nothing apart from what a few “safe environment” course have taught us.
Honestly, do you really not see the parallel here?
Hi Lou,
Then hold the parents accountable.