The Duggars Respond to Reports That Josh Duggar Was Accused of Child Molestation

[ToeInTheWater]

I’d also like to say, that I guess others can claim (and have earlier in this topic) “but you have no proof they didn’t move on, you’re making it out like it’s impossible for sexual abuse victims to move on, yada yada”. But all I know about sexual abuse makes me think it’s better to assume they didn’t.

A lot of the time, victims of child sexual abuse WILL seem to have recovered and moved on, only to have memories surface and issues arise at critical times, such as when they start having adult sexual relationships, or when they have children of their own. Certainly, Josh’s victims are approaching the age when this will happen, or has happened already.

So, for the sake of the victims, I really hope the show is cancelled or at least takes a long hiatus. And this probably will happen, considering the many advertisers who have dropped the show.

I must confess, like I’m sure many others, I will miss the (TV version of) the Duggars, yes. Their show was certainly wholesome and family friendly, and it DID feature a family with conservative values that didn’t hide their religion. The Duggars’ beliefs include opposition to same-sex marriage, and I recall Jessa Duggar getting embroiled in a mini-controversy when she compared the Holocaust to abortion. But the show depicted them as normal human beings who lived and laughed and loved, not dangerous hateful kooks. It was one of the few shows on a mainstream TV network that managed to do that.

But I’m certainly not going to prioritize my needs/wants for entertainment over the well-being of the victims in this situation. Who I don’t think need to be subjected to 24/7 camera footage while they deal with this. I mean, I didn’t even think the Gosselin kids should be on TV while their parents’ marriage was breaking up, and that case only involved sexual sin or rumors about it (both parents were rumored to have committed adultery but I don’t recall any “smoking gun” proving it, they certainly didn’t admit to it in public).

ETA: Faith1960, just because the girls haven’t shunned Josh doesn’t mean they’ve moved on. Even the victim who cried 4 years after the events, and stated she didn’t completely trust Josh, still stated she loved him and felt “safe at home”. I also doubt how much choice they really had in the matter. Also, they may themselves think they’ve moved on, but as I noted above, often sex abuse victims find what happened is affecting them again when they are older and go through major life events such as marriage and having their own children.

 

[Dawnia]

**Josh did not receive treatment and did not make restitution. His victims did not receive treatment and were forced to live with him for several more years. **They had no choice in the matter and even if he never touched them again, they were continually victimized just by his presence.
.

How do you know this? The court file has been expunged per a request from one of the victims and the DHS records are sealed. So, how can you possibly know what has or has not been done by or for the family beyond what was put in the police report that no longer exists as a public record?

 

[Kephart]

We all have limited information and we all have to make our judgments based on that limited information. Those that defend him have limited information with which to defend him.

That’s my point. We have limited information-- I would respect your judgment in terms of deciding whether you should or should not let your kids around someone

This is a real person. No one here-- even the professionals here-- have had the opportunity to interview him. No one here-- not even the professionals here-- have had the chance to conduct any type of investigation regarding this matter.*

So why are we contributing to the destruction of a man in a public forum when we don’t have all of the information?

What have we convicted him of? We are having a discussion about sexual abuse, culpability of sin, and parenting skills. What can be better than that?

Did you even READ the poll at the beginning of the thread? We’re being asked to vote on whether a man is a pedophile or not-- among other things.

K

 

[Gordon_Sims]

How do you know this? The court file has been expunged per a request from one of the victims and the DHS records are sealed. So, how can you possibly know what has or has not been done by or for the family beyond what was put in the police report that no longer exists as a public record?

Michelle clearly stated that the “treatment” Josh received was not counseling but instead was just living with a family friend while he did some remodeling. Aside from the vague statement in Josh’s attempt at a public apology, that’s the only treatment the family has mentioned. You can’t remodel away child sex abuse or its effects.

 

[MaryT777]

Michelle clearly stated that the “treatment” Josh received was not counseling but instead was just living with a family friend while he did some remodeling. Aside from the vague statement in Josh’s attempt at a public apology, that’s the only treatment the family has mentioned. You can’t remodel away child sex abuse or its effects.

Well said.

Mary.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

What about how close the girls are with Josh even to this day? They chaperones him and Anna, he was in their wedding(s), made up Jessas wedding invitations, etc.

What about it? I have a family member who, several decades after the fact, still sees her abuser on a regular basis. She always behaves very friendly and even loving toward him. Then she goes home and has panic attacks to the point that she shakes uncontrollably, severe migraines, nightmares and the occasional fainting spell. I have a friend who was abused so severely that her mind blocked it out completely. She doesn’t remember a thing about it and, aside from an inexplicable feeling of dread whenever she was around him, she maintained a very close, loving relationship with her abuser until he died.

 

[Dawnia]

Michelle clearly stated that the “treatment” Josh received was not counseling but instead was just living with a family friend while he did some remodeling. Aside from the vague statement in Josh’s attempt at a public apology, that’s the only treatment the family has mentioned. You can’t remodel away child sex abuse or its effects.

And what makes you think that you’re owed any of that information?

 

[MaryT777]

And what makes you think that you’re owed any of that information?

When someone puts their family in a reality TV show that promotes family values and morals they open themselves up to public scrutiny. No one is owed anything. That is simply the fact.

Mary.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

And what makes you think that you’re owed any of that information?

I’m not sure exactly what you’re getting at. Are you saying that nobody should be concerned when someone, public figure or not, is exposed as a child sex offender, has their parents admit that they never got them adequate treatment and that they now have a family of their own? Do you really not understand what child sex abuse is? I’ve done my best to explain it. Look at the link I posted above so you’re not just taking my word for it. Read up on it. Talk to some victims. Then take a fresh look at Josh’s case.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

This is a real person. No one here-- even the professionals here-- have had the opportunity to interview him. No one here-- not even the professionals here-- have had the chance to conduct any type of investigation regarding this matter.*

So why are we contributing to the destruction of a man in a public forum when we don’t have all of the information?

We don’t have all the information but the man DID admit to wrongdoing.

Hmm, I thought you were done with this topic, Kephart.

Did you even READ the poll at the beginning of the thread? We’re being asked to vote on whether a man is a pedophile or not-- among other things.

K

As the one who actually wrote up that poll, yes I did read it. And I never referred to Josh Duggar as a “pedophile”, I referred to him as a child molester, because he molested children. Simple enough. Didn’t say anything about whether he actually has a strong sexual attraction to kids, or is a “habitual” pedophile. I don’t know, so I didn’t speculate.

And again, I care less about judging the exact level of Josh’s moral culpability, than about what impact his actions had on innocent young girls who had NO culpability.

Are you as outraged over people assuming that the family, including the victims, have “moved on”? The information about that is limited as well, yet many people are happy to state that as established fact.

 

[Dawnia]

I’m not sure exactly what you’re getting at. Are you saying that nobody should be concerned when someone, public figure or not, is exposed as a child sex offender, has their parents admit that they never got them adequate treatment and that they now have a family of their own? Do you really not understand what child sex abuse is? I’ve done my best to explain it. Look at the link I posted above so you’re not just taking my word for it. Read up on it. Talk to some victims. Then take a fresh look at Josh’s case.

It is one thing to be concerned about the victims and to voice an opinion about what happened in general or their parenting style or any number of things. It is another thing to act like the family owes you an explaination of anything they’ve done or haven’t done. None of us know the details. A single police report is not the be all and end all of what happened. Please stop acting like it is.

…I was sexually abused from infancy through my teen years by multiple people (related and not). I also studied it as part of my major in college. Nope don’t know a thing about child sex abuse. Please enlighten me.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

It is one thing to be concerned about the victims and to voice an opinion about what happened in general or their parenting style or any number of things. It is another thing to act like the family owes you an explaination of anything they’ve done or haven’t done. None of us know the details. A single police report is not the be all and end all of what happened. Please stop acting like it is.

…I was sexually abused from infancy through my teen years by multiple people (related and not). I also studied it as part of my major in college. Nope don’t know a thing about child sex abuse. Please enlighten me.

At what point did I say they owe me an explanation? The police report in question was four years after the fact. Michelle stated that they didn’t get Josh any counseling. So for four years after he serially abused his siblings, he received no treatment and they were forced to live with their abuser. You profess to know about child sex abuse so I have to assume that you’re aware of the fact that the longer an offender goes without treatment, the more likely they are to re-offend. I’m sure you’re also aware of the fact that abuse doesn’t end without the proper treatment and intervention. Based on the details provided there’s no reason to believe that occurred. I believe that the Duggars’ admitted handling of this is deplorable. I also find the minimization of his actions to be just as bad. I believe it’s imperative that people get a realistic understanding of the issue rather than treat it as something that goes away just because someone repents, apologizes or prays about it.

 

[Kephart]

Hmm, I thought you were done with this topic, Kephart.

Yep, you’re right. I should not have posted again.

I am neither for or against the Duggars, but I think threads like this feed into the blood lust that Mike Huckabee referred to.

I just don’t think we, as Catholics, should be contributing to that blood lust. And I think this thread does just that. That is my opinion but it is a sincere opinion and one I put careful thought into.

K

 

[Dawnia]

When someone puts their family in a reality TV show that promotes family values and morals they open themselves up to public scrutiny. No one is owed anything. That is simply the fact.

Mary.

I doubt the victims are too thrilled to have their lives scrutinized by every Tom, Dick and Harriet accross the US. It’s any wonder why victims don’t want to talk about what they went through. With all the armchair authorities ready to tell them how they feel and deciding for the them what the proper way to recover is and how long it should take and any number of other things it just boggles the mind why anyone wouldn’t want to subject themselves to that. (No, I don’t have anger issues. Why do you ask. )

 

[Dawnia]

At what point did I say they owe me an explanation? The police report in question was four years after the fact. Michelle stated that they didn’t get Josh any counseling. So for four years after he serially abused his siblings, he received no treatment and they were forced to live with their abuser. You profess to know about child sex abuse so I have to assume that you’re aware of the fact that the longer an offender goes without treatment, the more likely they are to re-offend. I’m sure you’re also aware of the fact that abuse doesn’t end without the proper treatment and intervention. Based on the details provided there’s no reason to believe that occurred. I believe that the Duggars’ admitted handling of this is deplorable. I also find the minimization of his actions to be just as bad. I believe it’s imperative that people get a realistic understanding of the issue rather than treat it as something that goes away just because someone repents, apologizes or prays about it.

What you present isn’t a realistic understanding of the situation. Unless you know these people and/or privy to a complete picture, you are just speculating.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

What you present isn’t a realistic understanding of the situation. Unless you know these people and/or privy to a complete picture, you are just speculating.

I don’t believe I’ve made any incorrect statements about child sex abuse. As far as the Duggars go, at what point did I say that I had a complete understanding of their situation? I believe that when I’ve speculated, I’ve acknowledged that I was doing so. In other words, I never stated that Josh was abused himself but I did say that it’s reasonable to conclude that he may have been based on the known facts. Enough facts have been released that I believe it’s also fair to state that the Duggars mishandled this to a terrible degree. I’ve stated numerous times that without proper treatment, child sex abusers continue to abuse. By their own admission, Josh did not get proper treatment. I think it’s valid to express concern for his children and also that there were more incidents and victims.

I stated earlier that I’m not commenting on their beliefs, politics, other celebrities or why and how this came to light. I believe it’s far more important to discuss and shed light on the issue of child sex abuse, not just for the sake of awareness but so that people don’t assume that prayer and confession can make this go away.

 

[elsker]

I’m not saying it’s right to hide abuse, and it’s certainly not right for someone seeking help to suffer punishment.

I do want to address your observation about each state being a stand-alone entity; the United States was created, specifically, as a union of independent states with one general constitution limiting the federal power over the states. I don’t mean for this to be insulting, but it appears that you may not know about how this country was designed. With that in mind I find a sense of intrigue that you’ve described the basics of how it’s supposed work. People in California don’t get to tell people in Arkansas how to live - and vise versa; it prevents any one state and the federal government from having too much power. This leaves aside the many breaches of the United States Constitution, but that’s for a different thread.

I am an American natural born and do know how this country was supposedly designed but in all honesty most people would rather identify as a resident of their state and state their expert knowledge about how things are done where they are from rather than simply stating they are from the United States. If citizens of this country were so united then why are there several different accents, cultural traditions from state to state, governors for every state, some states allowing drug sales and some not, some states abolishing the death penalty while others still execute people, heck you have to get a new license when you move to a new state, why?

There may be Federal Law but that doesn’t seem to matter especially when a place like Colorado legalizes pot and now openly sells it to adults in defiance of Federal laws against using, possessing and selling drugs. Let’s get real, every state wishes it were a sovereign “nation” and dislikes Federal intrusion most of the time-Obama Care anyone? Texas has threatened to break from the union how many times?

Excluding foreign born people: Why is it that White Americans from different states speak differently, eat differently, have different traditions and social norms if they are all the same ethnicity and live in the same United States of America? I have lived in a few different states and they are not similar to one another and the residents often view the residents of another state as separate.

The saddest example of one state’s resident hating on another state’s residents was after 9/11 when a woman from Missouri was asked how she felt about the attack, she said-and I quote-, “I don’t care about what happens in New York. They probably deserved it!” I’m sure she felt all kinds of “united” in that moment! There may be some hard core patriots who love this country no matter where they call home but for a lot of people its “state first, then country (only when a Federal law threatens your state’s perceived autonomy or when we honour our veterans and active duty military)”.

I apologize but I’m not totally ignorant of what it is to be a citizen of this nation. I have lived life to some degree and have been observant of the social ills that plague this country and sadly how this nation has changed post 9/11.

In closing I would like to point out how much pleasure a few people seem to get on CAF from picking others apart in an attempt to measure their genius against the perceived shortcomings they judge others to have. It’s not a productive way to dialogue with others and frankly it only shows everyone how insecure a person can be when having to submit themselves to the scrutiny of others.

Its not an example of charity-that’s for sure.

Why can’t we just share our thoughts and experiences without it becoming a exercise in: “How stupid are you when I compare you to me”?

No one should have to jump this many hoops just to comment on a forum!

 

[KendraDZ1902]

Excluding foreign born people: Why is it that White Americans from different states speak differently, eat differently, have different traditions and social norms if they are all the same ethnicity and live in the same United States of America? I have lived in a few different states and they are not similar to one another and the residents often view the residents of another state as separate.

Race and ethnicity are not the same. Technically, per US census bureau, I am white and native American. However, I’m ethnically diverse. From Irish, French, Spanish (not Hispanic), German and Jewish.

Race is biological. Ethnicity is learned/traditions/customs. You can line up an Irish, Egyptian, and Italian and they are all the same race, ethnically, they are quite diverse.

So it wouldn’t be odd with a nation as geographically large as ours for people to not form their own traditions/customs in their region.

 

[Memaw]

I’m not sure exactly what you’re getting at. Are you saying that nobody should be concerned when someone, public figure or not, is exposed as a child sex offender, has their parents admit that they never got them adequate treatment and that they now have a family of their own? Do you really not understand what child sex abuse is? I’ve done my best to explain it. Look at the link I posted above so you’re not just taking my word for it. Read up on it. Talk to some victims. Then take a fresh look at Josh’s case.

Maybe you should take a “fresh Look” at Josh’s life since he was a young boy. He has turned out to be a decent family man and does NOT deserve the trashing he seems to be getting from those of us that should understand about repentance, forgiveness and turning from sin. None of us can change the mistakes we made as a youth or even as an ADULT. Or the consequences it cause others, But thank God our Lord loves us and forgives us and lets us go on with our lives, Maybe we should do that for others instead of constantly comparing them to other crimes committed by other people that have absolutely NOTHING to do with this case. And name calling by some, doesn’t do a thing except show how little some people can be when they are not agreed with. Being a public figure doesn’t give anyone the right to judge them. Didn’t Our Lord say we would be judged the SAME way we judge others. I don’t think listening to Our Lord is being naive, or dangerous !! I think we should take a long hard look at that before we jump on the bandwagon. God Bless, Memaw

 

[KendraDZ1902]

Maybe you should take a “fresh Look” at Josh’s life since he was a young boy. He has turned out to be a decent family man and does NOT deserve the trashing he seems to be getting from those of us that should understand about repentance, forgiveness and turning from sin. None of us can change the mistakes we made as a youth or even as an ADULT. Or the consequences it cause others, But thank God our Lord loves us and forgives us and lets us go on with our lives, Maybe we should do that for others instead of constantly comparing them to other crimes committed by other people that have absolutely NOTHING to do with this case. And name calling by some, doesn’t do a thing except show how little some people can be when they are not agreed with. Being a public figure doesn’t give anyone the right to judge them. Didn’t Our Lord say we would be judged the SAME way we judge others. I don’t think listening to Our Lord is being naive, or dangerous !! I think we should take a long hard look at that before we jump on the bandwagon. God Bless, Memaw

Do you have this same view when it comes to all scandals/crimes that come up on the news? Just accept their apology and move on, disregarding the “consequences” it causes others? No victim, from abuse, murder, robbery, etc. should just accept the consequences that it caused them. They didn’t do anything to be given a consequence, the perpetrator did wrong and deserves consequences.