The Duggers' 17 children

[monicatholic]

I know of wonderful Catholic families back in the day that had as many as 20 children.

Would you say the same about them?

ok, read again. it’s not the number of kids. it’s the parents’ motives, which i think are skewed, given their unnecessarilly public display of their lives.

and it’s because of that very display-- ther public display they CHOSE to exhibit-- that i’ve seen other things that further my suspicions of their motives.

do i hope and pray that Josie is doing well? of course. because she’s a baby. do i think her mother is nuts to have risked that baby’s health by birthing a 19th baby and well past 40? only if i think i was a vicious rotten wench for giving birth to my 12th baby at age 44 and increasing her risk of down syndrome (which she has.)

if ya’all would read me right0-- it’s the motives. it’s the motives.

and that brings me back around to another complaint which the Duggars give rise to. the motives of the fans, too.

i said it before and it was proven again this winter-- if the Duggars didn’t have such great stuff, people wouldn’t love them so much. not even many Catholic people.

exhibit A: my Catholic friends, who now have 13 children, who are probably just a paycheck away from financial catastrophe, whose kids will never see moderately-needed orthodontics, who wear clean but obvious hand-me-down clothes and who drive a very sad looking church van. just this winter, when the dad was leaving tha parish basement with the box of christmas dinner in his arms, one woman whispered, “Can you believe they just had another baby?”

these people never received a dollar of state money in their lives, but accepted some church groceries at Christmastime, and can we believe they just had another baby?

i let some time pass and said to the women, “did you see the Duggars baby Josie on TV?” a chorus of voices, “I LUUUUV the Duggars.”

yep. but ***can we believe ***my friend P-- and his wife just had another baby?

so, instead of telling me i’m atacking a good God-fearing family, consider, at least, my complaint about Duggar fans. folks love the Duggars because they have lotsa good stuff. if they made folks feel the slightest bit uncomfortable if they were the slightest bit threadbare, folks wouldn’t love the duggars and they wouldn’t be on tv.

 

[Catholic90]

Eh, well, you win a few you lose a few. I never realized this was a “win” or “lose” discussion!

I can only hope that my son will have enough sense not to bring balloons when he proposes to his future wife and I only can hope that he’ll marry someone with parents who have enough sense and trust in the way they’ve raised their children that they won’t need to be there to witness the entire proposal.

Hmmm, balloons can be FUN! Some people’s proposals are witnessed by THOUSANDS! (ever see a proposal at a ball game?) Other people propose in front of family at family dinners or holidays. I hope MY children have enough sense to do what THEY want, not what they think I want them to do!

But, hey, there are all kinds of weirdos out there, and to each his own. Calling someone a “weirdo” is not very Christ-like. Some people thought Christ was “weird”. That is not a very charitable thing to say about pro-life people who welcome every human being into their family, rather than using ABC or aborting their children, like so many choose to do today. Personally, if anyone should be called “weird”, it is those who think it is OK to kill children rather than welcome them. I’m going to bow out of this discussion now, but thank you for the opportunity to express my opinion.

 

[shannyk]

I’m not convinced that she doesn’t purposely wean early, I was just providing a counter-argument to your statement that it was a “rumor” that she weaned early. It’s a rumor I’ve heard enough to believe there is some merit to. …

So, then you are asserting that Mrs Duggar is a bold faced liar, complete with her story of nursing woe’s and triumphs. You are choosing to believe rumors on the net rather than words from the woman herself…not wise IMHO but I guess that is your prerogative. I personally don’t like to call people liars, but that’s just me.

I don’t have a problem with people thinking the Duggar’s a bit strange (they are) or not 'approving ’ of their parenting methods ( I can’t say I do either across the board), but I think it’s extremely uncharitable to persist in spreading rumors about people to get your point across. The woman said she nursed until she conceived then her milk dried up. Why would she lie about that?

 

[sanctamaria17]

Hey, I’m glad my parents raised us the way they did. Like I said, I don’t approve of it all either. I wear pants because I grew up in a cold area. I’m also an athlete. As for the kiss until marriage, that’s a definite cultural difference. I grew up with a lot of Italian, Portuguese and otherwise Latin friends and family (well, Italian for my family, the others for my friends). So I’m used to kisses on my cheek, full frontal hugs no matter the age and gender, and just a lot of physical affection. Also, because my male friends are those backgrounds, they pay for ALL their female friends, regardless of whether or not they’re dating. So a kiss on the lips would be the only way I’d know I was in a romantic relationship And I’d probably only end up with two or three kids myself (but God could change that). I also love living in the city.

Not saying I approve completely of their lifestyle. But I do find it judgmental that we’re all saying, OMG it’s wrong to live like that!

Though monicatholic has a point. People at my parish were the same way about a family having their ninth, but “OMG, the DUGGARS ARE AWESOME!” It’s sad. Meanwhile, my parents, who are NOT anti-contraceptive (praying for them to come to the Church…) believe that those types of things are not their concern. As long as the kids are loved, that’s really all they care about. They have no concern for someone else’s family planning.

 

[masondoggy]

From that link:

“The longest I’ve been able to breastfeed is 9 months, and I’m thrilled about that,”

In comparison, the AAP recommends babies be breastfed until at least 12 months of age, and beyond that if the situation is comfortable for both mom and baby. Breastmilk is the BEST food for your child for the first year of his life. If you know you usually conceive at 8 weeks postpartum, and doing so causes your milk to dry up, then it’s your responsibility to your nursing infant to use some discretion when engaging in intercourse so that you can continue to give your infant what is best for his developing system. I, too, usually conceive very quickly after giving birth, and usually dry up quickly as well. Once we learned this (and it only took the first time to figure it out) we were more careful during that postpartum time and were very strict with our NFP practices. I’ve never had anyone tell me that using NFP to avoid pregnancy so that I could continue to nurse was against the Church teachings.

There is being open to life, and being blessed with many children…and then there’s going on a sex marathon to see how many kids you can squeeze into your childbearing years. The latter is in no way natural, or Godly.

So I guess a mother that weans at 5 months because she’s dying to get out of the house and work part time is an irresponsible mother too? Please?

ok, read again. it’s not the number of kids. it’s the parents’ motives, which i think are skewed, given their unnecessarilly public display of their lives.

and it’s because of that very display-- ther public display they CHOSE to exhibit-- that i’ve seen other things that further my suspicions of their motives.

I have always thought their motivation was to set an example for this anti-family world that being open to God’s will in our lives and accepting the children that He wants to give us is a GOOD thing and can bring immeasurable joy in our lives. I truly believe that the Duggars look at their tv show and public appearances as a form of evangalization and at the same time they are trying to increase awareness about the dangers of contraception.

You and I have our different ideas of what their motives are. But the truth is that NEITHER of us know for sure because we cannot read what’s in their heart. So since neither of us know I think it’s the prudent and Christian thing to do to reserve judgement and leave that up to God.

 

[slcherian]

Well I just have a few things I must say. Number one, my sister who has been married for 25 years, adopted 11 children because she could never get pregnant. She never lost a child, she just never got pregnant. Then after 25 years, God blessed her with with a baby girl named Miracle. Now, don’t tell me that God is not in control. He decides. Here she wanted a child and could not have one, yet the mothers of the children she adopted (crack babies), the children were not wanted and these mothers were having upwards of 10-14 children or more and they were all wards of the state. They were not taking responsability for not one of them. Tax payers and footing the bill and a big bill it is. Some of the children have mental issues and have to be on many drugs for them to try and function normally. Thats when I take issue with a mother having all these children and not taking care of any of them. And this is the norm. for these women who are drug abusers.

But here you have a woman who is totally unselfish in that she is going to take what God giveth and you all judge her, for not breast feeding long enough, having too many children. That is anti Christ. God said children are a gift from GOD~! And then your going to say shes having a SEX fest. Come on, anyone knows that has a large family that its hard to have time alone, never the less have time for sex because usually you are so tired. You guys crack me up. Sounds a bit like jealousy cause you know you could not handle the stress of life and you want to bash on someone who God has given the ability to handle it. I have six boys and to be honest I struggle with the thoughts of having more. Its cost a lot of money, its takes a lot of time invested and loving unconditional is just hard sometimes, but that the selfish nature. But at the same time I want more if God wants to give them to me. I will not let fear dictate to me what I do or should not do cause God said to fear not. Most people use birth control (any form) because of fear and selfishness. Would you rather them obey God or listen to you cause you think they should not be having so many children. They could be having sex once a month and God just blesses them with his GIFTS!~ You don’t know, nor is it your business. Apparently God has found them faithful with the little and is making them ruler over much. Thats his word and he is faithful to watch over his word to perform it. There is no arguing with his word. All their gifts are being well taken care of. The state is not forking out a dime to them and they are doing a Great Job of raising children the way they believe God wants them to raise them- in the fear of the Lord and yes debt free. Yes, some things are out of the norm (the courting) but good for them. God said we are to be a parculiar people, set apart for Him and that is what they are doing. I say Congratulations to them on a job well done. God says one day we will stand before him and answer for all that we do. You will not answer for the Duggars. Only God knows the intent of the heart, we cant judge lest we be judged.

God Bless all those out there who are great mothers and fathers, trusting God to provide for their families large or small. Thats right where God wants us trusting in Him to provide and that he will give us the wisdom to raise them up as God would lead us to do, not as the world tells us to do it. God Bless.

 

[angelerulastiel]

My only concern is if they have enough time for the children. I do get the impression they are trying to have as many children as possible. I feel there is a difference between being open to life and letting what may happen, happen and trying to get pregnant at every opportunity. Plus they exposed their parenting techniques to criticism when they chose to parade them in front of the world. If they can’t handle people disagreeing with what they’ve chosen, they should keep their lives private. And just a quick comment to people who say it’s none of our business how they raise their children, that’s pretty much the same argument pro-choice people make. But if you believe that what someone does with their family effects society as a whole, then it is our business when they are setting themselves up as an example of how to raise children. It that way of raising children something we want as the gold standard, especially when it comes to the way they divide chores?

 

[CountrySinger]

I don’t watch the show, so it might be very off base (one of my friends watches the show for what she calls the “weird factor”, so I hear about it).
It’s a reality show, correct? For those who don’t know, I was on the show “American Idol”, I never made it to the voting round though. Even at that point, you have no privacy. Your name is on lists online, and people did spam my myspace, facebook, showed up at work, etc. Could I complain? Big fat NO. I made the decision to pursue it. The Duggars went on TV on a show about their life, so they can’t whine when they say that they have no privacy. Their large family is WHY they have a TV show (no one would watch a show with a family of two kids, too normal). They could have said, “we want privacy, no TV show”, or “put us on a Christian channel”. My mom said, “the moment you are on TV, goodbye normal life.”. I don’t know their true intentions (no one except them and God knows it), but people talking about you is part and parcel of fame.

 

[lovemyboys]

I’m often inspired by the Duggars. They also make me glad I’m Catholic with an approved, natural way to space children.

They’re obviously good people, but I’ve looked into their beliefs (the Advanced Training Institute homeschooling system) and they can be pretty interesting. They’re not even allowed to listen to Contemporary Christian music, and the girls are not allowed to wear pants. They’ve got a list of rules that make the Catechism look liberal. If you want to buy the system, you and your husband have to write an essay about the nature of salvation (probably to keep the Catholics OUT) and you have to have a pastor recommendation. You also cannot even BUY their homeschool materials unless the mother does not work at ALL. College is not a goal for girls. You also have to tell them how much the tv is on every week, and how much time you spend on the internet. Interesting…

 

[masondoggy]

I’m often inspired by the Duggars. They also make me glad I’m Catholic with an approved, natural way to space children.

They’re obviously good people, but I’ve looked into their beliefs (the Advanced Training Institute homeschooling system) and they can be pretty interesting. They’re not even allowed to listen to Contemporary Christian music, and the girls are not allowed to wear pants. They’ve got a list of rules that make the Catechism look liberal. If you want to buy the system, you and your husband have to write an essay about the nature of salvation (probably to keep the Catholics OUT) and you have to have a pastor recommendation. You also cannot even BUY their homeschool materials unless the mother does not work at ALL. College is not a goal for girls. You also have to tell them how much the tv is on every week, and how much time you spend on the internet. Interesting…

Are these rules part of the Quiverful thing or just for the Homeschool cirriculum that they use?
I find it interesting that the girls are not encouraged to go to college when Michelle herself did…I also heard Jim Bob say before that if the girls chose to go to college, that would be fine and they would support that. Maybe it’s more that they don’t push them in that direction purposefully but it’s not forbidden, either?

I was saying on another forum ( y’know where everybody was calling the both of them irresponsible breeders because Jim Bob won’t get “snipped” after Michelle having a complicated, premature pregnancy…) that it’s unfortunate that the Quiverfull religion (or whatever it’s called) doesn’t allow NFP at least for women who have serious health reasons to avoid pregnancy.

 

[takers]

I find it interesting that the girls are not encouraged to go to college when Michelle herself did…

I don’t believe Michelle went to college. She and Jim Bob got married right out of high school (for her at least) and then went on to work at the used car lot, mini mart store, and real estate. Maybe you’re thinking of Michelle getting her real estate license?

 

[masondoggy]

I don’t believe Michelle went to college. She and Jim Bob got married right out of high school (for her at least) and then went on to work at the used car lot, mini mart store, and real estate. Maybe you’re thinking of Michelle getting her real estate license?

I thought I read that she attended college but I could be wrong. I think there is a lot of mis-information out there about them.

 

[lovemyboys]

From what I’ve read, they would not disown a girl for going to college, but the clear goal for females is to be at-home moms. I think being an at-home mom is great, but I’d also want daughters to be able to support themselves in case they were left alone. I guess with those huge families, though, a girl would never be really alone. The full-quiver people see the woman’s place as in the home, always under the protection of a male. I noticed at Josh and Anna’s wedding, they have her father on film stating that Anna was under his authority but at the wedding the “authority” was handed over to her husband, Josh. Very Old Testament… I’m not judging them; I think they might be right on some of this “woman’s place is in the home” stuff. But even as a traditional sahm, I sure am glad I went to college. I do notice that the Duggars stay pretty quiet on some of these issues, probably not wanting to offend people.

 

[lovemyboys]

I thought I read that she attended college but I could be wrong. I think there is a lot of mis-information out there about them.

I have their book, and she got married at 17 or 18 and helped Jim Bob with the car business. She has a real estate license. They got involved with the full quiver movement a few years after they were married-- she probably got the real estate license before they got involved with ATI. She seems like an intelligent lady, just extremely traditional.

 

[mamacita]

I don’t watch the show, so it might be very off base (one of my friends watches the show for what she calls the “weird factor”, so I hear about it).
It’s a reality show, correct? For those who don’t know, I was on the show “American Idol”, I never made it to the voting round though. Even at that point, you have no privacy. Your name is on lists online, and people did spam my myspace, facebook, showed up at work, etc. Could I complain? Big fat NO. I made the decision to pursue it. The Duggars went on TV on a show about their life, so they can’t whine when they say that they have no privacy. Their large family is WHY they have a TV show (no one would watch a show with a family of two kids, too normal). They could have said, “we want privacy, no TV show”, or “put us on a Christian channel”. My mom said, “the moment you are on TV, goodbye normal life.”. I don’t know their true intentions (no one except them and God knows it), but people talking about you is part and parcel of fame.

Did you ever think that they said ‘yes’ to the show to try to ‘evangelize’ thru it? To show the world that large families are not a ‘bad, evil, thing’ to have?? I see them doing the show as a way to express to the world how much joy and happiness all these children bring to their lives and to eachother… that’s just my thoughts on it tho.
I did meet them in person, they were the most well behaved kids I’ve ever met.
(Can’t recall which poster mentioned this) I think if they were so deprived of their parents attention they would not be as well behaved as they are, which leads me to believe that the parents are attentive to their kids individual needs.

 

[CountrySinger]

Did you ever think that they said ‘yes’ to the show to try to ‘evangelize’ thru it? To show the world that large families are not a ‘bad, evil, thing’ to have?? I see them doing the show as a way to express to the world how much joy and happiness all these children bring to their lives and to eachother… that’s just my thoughts on it tho. I did meet them in person, they were the most well behaved kids I’ve ever met.
I think if they were so deprived of their parents attention they would not be as well behaved as they are, which leads me to believe that the parents are attentive to their kids individual needs.

They could have good intentions, but we can never be sure. But it is a possibility that they could only have good intentions. The point of my post was that when you let people into your life on TV, you have to expect people will talk good and bad about you. And not everyone will have the same opinion. I’m neutral on them, while my pro-choice friends think they are weird.

That’s cool you met them, I’m glad that they are nice.

 

[lovemyboys]

Masondoggy, I only know that those specific rules are part of the ATI homeschooling curriculum (and family life curriculum). ATI also has all day seminars for moms and dads-- it’s not just a curriculum for the kids. It’s like a whole way of life. A LOT of full quiver people belong to it, but I’m sure that not all of them belong… Some “full quiver” people are Catholic, and they would not be allowed into ATI.

 

[mamacita]

I have their book, and she got married at 17 or 18 and helped Jim Bob with the car business. She has a real estate license. They got involved with the full quiver movement a few years after they were married-- she probably got the real estate license before they got involved with ATI. She seems like an intelligent lady, just extremely traditional.

I’m not saying that you are saying this, but I don’t see much wrong w/ that. Then again, maybe I’m strange. Maybe if more of the World was extremely traditional we’d be a much happier place? Just a thought.
I have some Catholic friends who refuse to listen to Christian music (only music that comes from their Mass), only wear long skirts (no pants for the girls) etc. They attend the Latin Mass and they are in their 20’s. Funny thing is neither of them was raised this way which I find interesting. They just picked up on the more traditional way of life in the past 3 years and they haven’t been happier (she wasn’t raised Catholic and he reverted). I look at them and think DH and I should take a few pointers, lol.

 

[lovemyboys]

I’m not saying that you are saying this, but I don’t see much wrong w/ that. Then again, maybe I’m strange. Maybe if more of the World was extremely traditional we’d be a much happier place? Just a thought.
I have some Catholic friends who refuse to listen to Christian music (only music that comes from their Mass), only wear long skirts (no pants for the girls) etc. They attend the Latin Mass and they are in their 20’s. Funny thing is neither of them was raised this way which I find interesting. They just picked up on the more traditional way of life in the past 3 years and they haven’t been happier (she wasn’t raised Catholic and he reverted). I look at them and think DH and I should take a few pointers, lol.

Oh, no, I’m traditional too. There’s definitely something about Michelle that I aspire to be like. Sometimes, you can even find me on the “Ladies Against Feminism” website. I guess that’s why I’m so interested in the Duggars. I was raised in the feminist culture of the 80s, though, so I’m always having an identity crisis. LOL

 

[lada]

Oh, no, I’m traditional too. There’s definitely something about Michelle that I aspire to be like. Sometimes, you can even find me on the “Ladies Against Feminism” website. I guess that’s why I’m so interested in the Duggars. I was raised in the feminist culture of the 80s, though, so I’m always having an identity crisis. LOL

I’m in a traditional role as well, and I don’t see myself going back to work any time soon. However, I did go to college and I’m very glad that I did because should I need to work, I can, and I can make enough money to support my family doing so.

A college education is not something that you get just so you can get a job. There is much more to it than that. I think that depriving our daughters of that education because we are assuming that they will grow up to be wives and mothers is insulting. My education is valuable to me now, and I’m “just” a sahm.

Any time the traditional/feminist discussion comes up, I always think that what the original suffragists fought for was equality. If a woman desires to stay at home, she should have that right, and if she wants to work, she should be able to do that as well. She shouldn’t be told by a man what she can or can’t do.

There’s nothing wrong with a woman assuming a traditional role. There is something very wrong with a woman being forced into such a role by her father or husband.