The E.U. Is Coming for Catholics

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Monica83 said:
The ECHR refused to take up their case
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Because it had previously said that abortion was a matter for the several States who had signed the Convention.

The ECHR is nothing to do with the EU, by the way.
 
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In the brave new world of a politics where nothing is true and anything is possible, what else would one expect.
 
Kaninchen said:
That they have been part of creating.
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For the early members yes, though in acceding to that process, their sovereignty must yield to Europe as a whole. The later joiners had no part in those laws, but accepted them in joining.

The only point I’m making is that the individual countries in Europe do indeed surrender aspects of their sovereignty. The will of the people of a given nation is no longer supreme (for so long as they remain in the EU). I’m not saying that’s a bad thing - but it is a thing.
 
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Rau said:
The will of the people of a given nation is no longer supreme (for so long as they remain in the EU). I’m not saying that’s a bad thing - but it is a thing.
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We all enter a world which we didn’t create when we’re born and surrender aspects of our sovereignty to it, it goes with interaction with the world around us.

Meanwhile, the moment a country signs a trade deal, it’ll have surrender aspects of its sovereignty, the moment it signs a mutual defence agreement, it’ll have surrendered aspects of its sovereignty.

Rather nebulous stuff, in reality.
 
Monica83 said:
Your European Convention does not recognize conscientious rights of the worker in the workplace. See above article from BBC on Swedish nurses being denied jobs as midwives because they refused to perform abortions. The ECHR refused to take up their case. It seems the ECHR is as good as useless. This would never stand in the U.S. no matter the State.
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The decision by the ECHR is disappointing to a liberal like me. I expect there may have been cases where you might find a decision of the Supreme Court disappointing.
 
Kaninchen said:
The ECHR is nothing to do with the EU, by the way
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Except that acceding to the ECHR is a requirement for joining the EU. As you know, the EU has its own Charter of Fundamental Rights.

This is from Article,10:
  1. Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This right includes freedom to change religion or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or in private, to manifest religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance
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mercyalways said:
On Oct 25 the EU passed a resolution stating “The right to freedom of speech is not absolute,” in regards to religious freedom, and threatening further censorship
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Sure the EU is out for Poland and Hungary. We saw how quickly we lost our right to freedom to assemble in our churches.
 
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Should I assume that all the anti-EU stuff I see on here is just more American right-wing politics and has nothing to do with Catholicism? I always understood that the European project was to a large extent rooted in the Catholic culture of Europe (Robert Schuman is, I understand, under consideration for possible future canonisation). It’s also interesting that none of the anti-EU people on CAF actually seem to be from Europe; they all seem to be Americans.
 
EmilyAlexandra said:
It’s also interesting that none of the anti-EU people on CAF actually seem to be from Europe; they all seem to be Americans.
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The American context is not entirely to do with the knee-jerk destructiveness of ‘American Conservatives’ - a lot of Americans are of Polish descent for example and the Polish Government’s attempts at eradicating abortion are bound to find strong support in the ultra-conservative world of CAF.

As to Orban, he may lead a tiny country but the long-term construction of a ‘Trumpian-Catholic-Nationalist’ monopoly of power would, inevitably, bring admiration and vocal support against the secular democratic EU.
 
People here will have to get very cross elsewhere then!

Traditionally, it’s ended with Poland’s neighbours abolishing the independence of Poland.

After the last few months, the aims and wiles of Orban and his monopolisation of power might seem rather attractive. Nobody ‘steals’ elections from Orban, they’re not going to be allowed to stand (the latest trick of proclaiming that there can only be one opposition group, no matter that the parties of which it is going to be made up might totally disagree with one another, seems fun).
 
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I expect the current owners can’t wait until they get their daily dose of thread, after thread, after thread of ‘Breitbart/Lifesitenews/Newsmax/etc’ headlines and, of course, Tucker Carlson’s preoccupations.

I’ll almost miss it, not that I read the contents, everybody who posts them is on ‘ignore’! 🙃
 
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I’m nearly at 10,000 posts in total (since 2006) so it’s a kind of sentimental ambition that keeps me here - it’s not as if, there’s a lot for me to discover about Christianity and Christians, after 25 years or so, I’ve kind of got the picture.
 
Well, sure, if people think that the 50 states of the United States individually have more sovereignty than the member states of the EU, then yes, that is a massive misunderstanding. I mean, do such people realise that EU states have the power to enter into treaties with other sovereign states, join international organisations, exchange ambassadors and high commissioners with other sovereign states, maintain their own armed forces, and wage war independently of the EU and its member states?
Kaninchen said:
a lot of Americans are of Polish descent for example and the Polish Government’s attempts at eradicating abortion are bound to find strong support in the ultra-conservative world of CAF.
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But the EU has no power to abridge the freedom of its member states to make their own laws regarding abortion. The EU includes countries which have some of the most liberal abortion laws in the world as well as some of the most conservative abortion laws in the world. Ireland was a member of the EEC when the Eighth Amendment was enacted in 1983 and it was a member of the EU when the Eighth Amendment was repealed in 2018. These were decisions made by the Irish people; the EU had no involvement in the process.
Kaninchen said:
As to Orban, he may lead a tiny country but the long-term construction of a ‘Trumpian-Catholic-Nationalist’ monopoly of power would, inevitably, bring admiration and vocal support against the secular democratic EU.
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They do realise, I assume, that Viktor Orbán is a Calvinist? His policies really have about as much to do with Christianity as Trump’s do, which is to say, not a lot.
 
EmilyAlexandra said:
But the EU has no power to abridge the freedom of its member states to make their own laws regarding abortion.
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That’s not how they read the situation - we live in the era where nothing is true and everything is possible.
EmilyAlexandra said:
His policies really have about as much to do with Christianity as Trump’s do, which is to say, not a lot.
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None of that matters, he’s part of the macho parthenon, one of the men of steel, standing up against the marauding hordes of liberal, Marxist, Jihadis determined to destroy the potential right of real Americans to carry Uzis at all times.
 
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Kaninchen said:
Meanwhile, the moment a country signs a trade deal, it’ll have surrender aspects of its sovereignty, the moment it signs a mutual defence agreement, it’ll have surrendered aspects of its sovereignty.

Rather nebulous stuff, in reality.
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To a degree that’s true. But relatively modest compared to the impact of the EU on member nations.
 
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