The Early Christians were Sola Scriptura

[PRmerger]

The HOLY SPIRIT, that’s how.

Think about this, Dokimas. The HOLY SPIRIT gave us the Bible–correct. But did the Holy Spirit appear as, say, a burning bush and after the bush was consumed leave a leather-bound bible?

Did the HS send a dove with a King James bible tied up in a pretty ribbon carried in its beak?

Or did the HS speak through a council of Catholic bishops?

You haven’t taken your “The HOLY SPIRIT, that’s how” and actually thought about this. Your mind ends right there. :sad_yes:

The CC or the church Jesus founded is NOT the Holy Spirit thus not infallible.

So where’s the error in the CC’s discernment? Do you believe that Revelation ought not be included? Or maybe Malachi? Or do you think the Gospel of Thomas was incorrectly omitted?

 

[PRmerger]

1. It would be good if you gave the reference for us to check them out.

LOL!!

Stating that you need a* reference* makes the point nicely.

You need something OUTSIDE of Scripture (that is, a* reference*; an INFALLIBLE reference at that!) to tell you what’s inspired.

 

[PRmerger]

Was Mary born with a sin nature or not?

Absolutely not.

She was immaculate.

God saved her from this sin nature.

 

[PRmerger]

Who says the TofC is inspired? It’s a brilliant tool.

No Catholic ought to claim the TofC is inspired.

But it was given to you by an infallible authority.

Unless you think they erred?

If so, where?

 

[Dokimas]

Think about this, Dokimas. The HOLY SPIRIT gave us the Bible–correct. But did the Holy Spirit appear as, say, a burning bush and after the bush was consumed leave a leather-bound bible?

Did the HS send a dove with a King James bible tied up in a pretty ribbon carried in its beak?

Or did the HS speak through a council of Catholic bishops?

You haven’t taken your “The HOLY SPIRIT, that’s how” and actually thought about this. Your mind ends right there. :sad_yes:

So where’s the error in the CC’s discernment? Do you believe that Revelation ought not be included? Or maybe Malachi? Or do you think the Gospel of Thomas was incorrectly omitted?

You are showing you don’t understand my position.

I’ve tried for months with you and you still try to get me to think my ideas are wrong by taking my ideas in an obsurd direction. I understand the use of this tactic, but every time??? As I’ve said, you are showing you don’t understand my position.

John the Baptist said he needed to decrease so Jesus could increase.

Paul said God uses people to plant seed and others to water and they are NOTHING so that God can be everything. Why do you make the CC equal with Jesus? It’s against clear teaching from J the B and Paul.

 

[Dokimas]

Absolutely not.

She was immaculate.

God saved her from this sin nature.

Then Mary did not need a Savior, she had no sin nature. Remember that’s why you want babies baptized, not because they’ve sinned but because they have a sin nature.

If God saved Mary from a sin nature, why didn’t He do it for all of us from Adam on? That way we’d all be as Mary and Jesus would not have had to died, perhaps.

 

[Dokimas]

LOL!!

Stating that you need a* reference* makes the point nicely.

You need something OUTSIDE of Scripture (that is, a* reference*; an INFALLIBLE reference at that!) to tell you what’s inspired.

This is quite a silly point. Come on. Open up and you’ll see that this is foolish. Would you rather me say, ‘the words you speak of in the Holy Writ, could you tell me how many words are before them so I can find for myself’.

Maybe I’m being unkind here. Maybe this argument of yours is the best you have. Would seem you don’t have a good argument from the Bible or you’d provide it without such a comment.

 

[guanophore]

I am quite aware of this paragraph. It does not indicate that tradition contained anything in addition to Scripture. I noted previously that he referred to the Apostles’ teaching being handed down both orally and in writing but the content of each is the same.

It is not so much that any of the content differs, as it is a matter of how we understand the content. Sacred Tradition is the lens through which we read the Scriptures, which is why we understand them differently than you do. We read them with the mind of those who composed them, with their One Faith shaping our perspective.

When you read them, you do so from within a tradition that has been separated from this perspective for 500+ years. The separation from the Sacred Tradition changes the perspective from which the Scriptures are read and understood, and the separation continues to widen daily as the principle of Sola Scriptura gives rise to as many perspectives as there are belly buttons.

 

[Dokimas]

No Catholic ought to claim the TofC is inspired.

But it was given to you by an infallible authority.

Unless you think they erred?

If so, where?

Again, IMO, this is not a good argument. If the Pope were to look on and call us all by the ‘nicks’ we have would it be a good argument for you to tell us, ‘see, the Pope speaks infallibly’?

Actually, getting to your comment about verse and chapter, sometimes they aren’t placed in the best places. However, their purposes aren’t to be infallible but for aid in study, plain and simple.

 

[Dokimas]

No Catholic ought to claim the TofC is inspired.

But it was given to you by an infallible authority.

Unless you think they erred?

If so, where?

Did you kind of contradict yourself???

At first you say no catholic should think the TofC is inspired. Then you say the infallible authority didn’t err. Isn’t infallibility due to being inspired?

 

[Cat_Herder]

I’m not sure this is accurate. Bible evidence seems to be against your understanding.

I am delighted to inform you that every Catholic doctrine is substantiated by Scripture. Case in point, the Immaculate Conception:

Genesis 3:15 (NRSV)
I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will strike your head,
and you will strike his heel.

I leave it to you to identify the Woman and her Seed, and explain why both of them are at equal enmity with the devil.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Did you kind of contradict yourself???

At first you say no catholic should think the TofC is inspired. Then you say the infallible authority didn’t err. Isn’t infallibility due to being inspired?

She wants to know how you know that the Bible consists of these particular 66 books. And not, say, including the 7 deuterocanonical books found in Catholic and Orthodox Bibles.

 

[Dokimas]

I am delighted to inform you that every Catholic doctrine is substantiated by Scripture. Case in point, the Immaculate Conception:

Genesis 3:15 (NRSV)
I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will strike your head,
and you will strike his heel.

I leave it to you to identify the Woman and her Seed, and explain why both of them are at equal enmity with the devil.

Could you highlight the words of Gen 3:15 that says Mary was immaculately conceived.

 

[guanophore]

Thanks for this very fine post, simspt. I would like to add on to one of your ideas here.

You argue that an authoritative Church is unnecessary since the Scriptures act as the judge in any case of doctrinal controversy. Your position depends on the validity of your claim relating to the clarity of the scriptures. while simulataneously keeping its commitment to the authority of Scripture?

Such a position also depends upon the ability of the Scripture to wield authority and judgment. While the CC affirms that Scripture is authoritative (because God is the Source), the CC does not attempt to inflict the Scriptures with a role or characteristics that they were never meant to contain. The activities of teaching, training in righteousness, rebuking, discerning, judgment and related tasks contained in the exercise of authority are the unique posessions of persons, not writings, however Holy they may be.

The exercise of authority requires that one be able to take responsibility, and accept the consequences of one’s decisions. Scripture, though profitable in these tasks, does not have the characteristics necessary exercise authority.

When the Reformers attempted to force the Holy Scriptures into a role they were never meant to take, the end result was that they made themselves the ultimate authorities. They did this with all sincerity, believing that it was the HS, guiding them through the scriptures that was at work. However, the HS is not the author of confusion and division, which is the clear fruit of the doctrine of Sola Scriptura.

 

[Dokimas]

She wants to know how you know that the Bible consists of these particular 66 books. And not, say, including the 7 deuterocanonical books found in Catholic and Orthodox Bibles.

I’m not smart enough to figure it out. I haven’t looked into it. At this point, I don’t see a need.

 

[Cat_Herder]

I already have, but for emphasis:

I will put enmity between you and the woman

 

[Cat_Herder]

I’m not smart enough to figure it out. I haven’t looked into it. At this point, I don’t see a need.

Since you believe that the Bible is the Word of God you clearly have a need to know what the Bible is.

 

[Dokimas]

I already have, but for emphasis:

I will put enmity between you and the woman

That’s about immaculate exception??? Sorry, I don’t see it.

 

[Cat_Herder]

What does it mean to be at enmity with satan?

What must a person not have to be at enmity with satan?

 

[Dokimas]

Since you believe that the Bible is the Word of God you clearly have a need to know what the Bible is.

Fair enough. Please show me some teachings of the other seven books, not in the 66 that are important for my life.