The end of Protestantism

[HomeInNE]

New on this topic and didn’t have time to read all 11 pages. But I’ll offer my 2 pennies as a self-identified Protestant considering conversion to the Catholic church.

I’ve known strongly faithful people in all of the 3 (basic) Christian faiths, as well as people who don’t identify in particular with any denomination or church home. Our society (at least, in America) evolves ever more to focus on the individual - so it’s probably a question of how the different churches are suited to fit individualistic needs. Some would argue Catholicism can’t - there are too many “rules” and certainly too many that restrict personal practices that have become commonplace in our society. Speaking as an individual, I say Protestantism can’t. Unless there’s a denomination I’ve never heard of, there’s little opportunity for fulfillment for people who want to worship more frequently than once per week, or receive communion (regardless of your belief in what it actually IS) more than once or twice a month. That never used to bother me, in fact, I never considered it. But now, understanding how important faith is in life, how much I need it to sustain me and be a whole person, that model of faith and worship doesn’t work for me anymore. (Trouble is, I still take issue with some of the Catholic church’s main positions and teachings, and I need to figure out how to reconcile my desire for more frequent worship and to receive the Eucharist with that.)

Honestly? I’m not sure if, with the course our society is on, any one faith would ultimately survive. People want to worship as they like, as often or as little as they like, without feeling like the way they choose to live their life is considered wrong in their faith. Maybe there will be a shift in something there. But we’re so self-focused and so into gratification in many forms, it could well be the end of any structured faith.

 

[PRmerger]

**No problem.

BTW, by “my crew” I mean the NCR regulars.**

Ah. My apologies!

It’s nice to be recognized as part of the crew, though.

 

[PRmerger]

People want to worship as they like, as often or as little as they like, without feeling like the way they choose to live their life is considered wrong in their faith. Maybe there will be a shift in something there. But we’re so self-focused and so into gratification in many forms, it could well be the end of any structured faith.

Egg-zactly.

It’s a tragedy of the greatest degree for folks to church shop. They find a church that suits their own theology.

Don’t you think, rather, that the paradigm should be: find the Church which Christ established, and then conform your theology to Christ’s?

 

[LutheranScholar]

To get back on topic properly, I don’t think Protestantism is ever going to end. It’s tenets are basic, it encourages a one on one relationship with the Lord and let’s face it: it’s missionaries have led millions out of the primal darkness of paganism into the Light of Christ. It’s not a hobbling step- child, no matter what anybody thinks, but it’s a family of churches that has a vibrant and vital life of its own.

 

[ptisme]

To get back on topic properly, I don’t think Protestantism is ever going to end. It’s tenets are basic, it encourages a one on one relationship with the Lord and let’s face it: it’s missionaries have led millions out of the primal darkness of paganism into the Light of Christ. It’s not a hobbling step- child, no matter what anybody thinks, but it’s a family of churches that has a vibrant and vital life of its own.

I agree. And hopefully one day will be standing next to each other laughing about our follies here on earth

 

[steve_b]

You are right when you say Martin Luther was excommunicated from the Catholic Church and in his case, it became permanent.

It needs to be said that was his choice.
S:

He was excommunicated simply because he spoke truth to power.

He was excommunicated because he taught error and wouldn’t change
S:

Jesus was also excluded from the fellowship of the temple for the very same reasons as Martin Luther.

Nope!
S:

They both were fed up with the corruption of the religious establishment of their day.

Actually because of Luthers errors and his disinterest to recant, the Church got fed up with him
S:

Both men attracted the common man, rather than the religious elites, and both men taught that God was a God of love and not someone who was waiting in the wings to damn people.

Actually Jesus taught more about hell than any other person in scripture.

So while God is love, God is also just. Anyone leaving out the justice of God, is not worshipping the God that is, but a God of their own making.
S:

Martin Luther did not repent because he was standing up to the corruption of the Church!!

He was standing up to corruption?

Given his error and his rebellion, that sparked a rebellion on steroids that has only gotten rediculous as time goes on, I can’t even begin to quantify that degree of corruption.
S:

Martin Luther so loved the Catholic Church that he wanted the power brokers of the time to teach correct Catholic teaching, doctrine and tradition. Not the selling of indulgences, giving a certain amount of money so you can buy your way into heaven, God being a wrathful God, etc.

Let’s test that out

Agreed, some were selling indulgences. Was that abuse caught and ended? Yes
Luther was given his list of errors. Did he respond to them? No Did he recant? No

Tell me again how much Luther loved the Church?
S:

Lutherans don’t believe in Sola Scriptura alone.

does that mean Lutherans believe in sola scriptura, just not sola scriptura alone?
S:

We believe in Church tradition (both of the Catholic and Lutheran traditions) the witness, writings and the example of the saints and the example and holiness of the Mother of God. Who, incidentally, is our Mother too!! It is an interesting thing to note, that Martin Luther always taught, professed and confessed that Mary was immaculately conceived, was a virgin her whole life and was the Mother of God and consequently, our mother too!!

okay, that shows me Luther was a pick and choose believer
S:

As far as Christs sacrifice on the cross is concerned, I believe that is a done deal. The seal of forgiveness has been placed on anyone willing to believe in the life, death, resurrection and the ascention Christ.

Does that mean you believe in OSAS?
S:

If you see this post, Steve B, let me know what your thoughts are on this!!

Those answers are just me thinking outloud.
S:

Thank you again for your (name removed by moderator)ut, Steve B!! I like discussing Christ and his Church!!!

Take care all and God Bless!!!

You’re welcome,

Thanks and Blessings to you in return

 

[LutheranScholar]

I agree. And hopefully one day will be standing next to each other laughing about our follies here on earth

Amen and amen.

 

[Peter_J]

I don’t think Protestantism is ever going to end.

Funny I would say that about Catholicism.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Funny I would say that about Catholicism.

And I would say that about Christianity

 

[LutheranScholar]

Funny I would say that about Catholicism.

Ah, perspective… an interesting thing, non? Yet the vista is still just as beautiful, no matter where on Mount Zion we stand.

 

[Peter_J]

And I would say that about Christianity

No one like a copycat.

 

[LutheranScholar]

And I would say that about Christianity

With our propensity for multiplication, that, sir, is certainly a given.

 

[PRmerger]

With our propensity for multiplication, that, sir, is certainly a given.

I don’t find this “multiplication” to be something that prompts this type of response:

Rather, it is a great sadness to Christ to think that His gospel has been so vitiated that any person can simply look for a pastor who preaches what he wants to hear, and consider himself to be a receiver of the kergyma.

No, this multiplication is an obscenity.

Did you know that there is a denomination which rejects the Pauline epistles?

Yep. That’s part of this rotten fruit of the “right” to multiply. They reserve for themselves the right to determine what belongs in the Bible and what doesn’t.

And did you know that there is a denomination which views steps to altars as an abomination?

Yep. You read that right.

And that’s because they have reserved the right for themselves to read some passage of Scripture, apart from the lens of the Faith which gave them this Scripture (that is, the Catholic Faith), and come up with this very peculiar idea.

 

[Peter_J]

With our propensity for multiplication, that, sir, is certainly a given.

I think the Roman emperors found that as well.

Oddly enough, though, my first thought upon seeing your post was the multiplication of Protestant denominations.

Does that make me a Catholic?

 

[LutheranScholar]

I don’t find this “multiplication” to be something that prompts this type of response:

Rather, it is a great sadness to Christ to think that His gospel has been so vitiated that any person can simply look for a pastor who preaches what he wants to hear, and consider himself to be a receiver of the kergyma.

No, this multiplication is an obscenity.

Did you know that there is a denomination which rejects the Pauline epistles?

Yep. That’s part of this rotten fruit of the “right” to multiply. They reserve for themselves the right to determine what belongs in the Bible and what doesn’t.

And did you know that there is a denomination which views steps to altars as an abomination?

Yep. You read that right.

And that’s because they have reserved the right for themselves to read some passage of Scripture, apart from the lens of the Faith which gave them this Scripture (that is, the Catholic Faith), and come up with this very peculiar idea.

And yet the Gospel of Christ is still declared worldwide… the* true Gospel. There will always be fringe groups and heterodoxies out there ( generally in the vast minority), but folks will still be getting baptized in the Trinitarian formula, they will still have the Scriptures put into their hands and they will still learn God’s Truth. What a few people here and there choose to do is up to them. God knows their hearts and it’s up to Him to judge them. Of course the Early Christian Church produced the Bible, but what you know now as the Roman Catholic Church didn’t actually get finalized *until after Trent. One could, of course argue that therefore, the Protestant denominations are even older than the Catholic Church. It’s a great joy to Christ and the angels and saints rejoice in Heaven to see souls brought to Him, no matter the denominational label of the people doing the bringing. amazingdiscoveries.org/AD-reformation-timeline-on-the-council-of-trent-vaticanI-II

 

[LutheranScholar]

I think the Roman emperors found that as well.

Oddly enough, though, my first thought upon seeing your post was the multiplication of Protestant denominations.

Does that make me a Catholic?

With all of our Christian mission societies spreading the Gospel throughout the world, Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox alike, how can any but rejoice at the attention and spread the Christian churches and the Gospel is enjoying now?

 

[MaryT777]

I don’t find this “multiplication” to be something that prompts this type of response:

Rather, it is a great sadness to Christ to think that His gospel has been so vitiated that any person can simply look for a pastor who preaches what he wants to hear, and consider himself to be a receiver of the kergyma.

No, this multiplication is an obscenity.

Did you know that there is a denomination which rejects the Pauline epistles?

Yep. That’s part of this rotten fruit of the “right” to multiply. They reserve for themselves the right to determine what belongs in the Bible and what doesn’t.

And did you know that there is a denomination which views steps to altars as an abomination?

Yep. You read that right.

And that’s because they have reserved the right for themselves to read some passage of Scripture, apart from the lens of the Faith which gave them this Scripture (that is, the Catholic Faith), and come up with this very peculiar idea.

:sad_yes: Not only that Martin Luther would roll over in his grave if he saw the state of the Lutheran Church today divided among itself. He who would allow not one iota of disagreement with him. One of the founding fathers of division causing multiplication.

Mary.

 

[PRmerger]

:sad_yes: Not only that Martin Luther would roll over in his grave if he saw the state of the Lutheran Church today divided among itself. He who would allow not one iota of disagreement with him. One of the founding fathers of division causing multiplication.

Mary.

I think you are absolutely right, Mary.

What say you, Lutheran Friends here on the CAFs?

Do you agree that Martin Luther would not have permitted folks to disagree with his interpretation of the Scriptures?

 

[PRmerger]

With all of our Christian mission societies spreading the Gospel throughout the world, Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox alike, how can any but rejoice at the attention and spread the Christian churches and the Gospel is enjoying now?

It depends on which “gospel” you mean, LS.

If you mean the one that says that divorce and re-marriage is adultery, then yes.

If you mean the one that says that stairs to altars is an abomination, then no.

If you mean the one that says that Jesus is present, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Eucharist, then yes.

If you mean the one that says that God commands us to eat grass, then no.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

If you mean the one that says that says Jesus gave us 7 sacraments, then yes.

If you mean the one that says that God hates homosexuals, then no.

 

[steido01]

I think you are absolutely right, Mary.

What say you, Lutheran Friends here on the CAFs?

Do you agree that Martin Luther would not have permitted folks to disagree with his interpretation of the Scriptures?

Ol’ Marty’s personal interpretation of anything really wouldn’t have a say, then or today. Like all who consider the Augsburg Confession to be the right reflection of Scripture and tradition, he’d be beholden to the Confessions, which do have a say. He’d lament those “Lutheran” churches that do not adhere to Lutheran doctrine, and he might be perturbed by a few modern practices which are adiaphora anyway, but he’d applaud those Evangelical Catholic churches who remained steadfast in their confession.

What would really upset him is how secularized Christians have allowed their civil governments to become. He might also be surprised at what today’s Church in Rome teaches; he might be a bit like Benedict - a Catholic who thinks a rather Lutheran.

While the first paragraph is based on Lutheran understanding of authority, the second paragraph is based solely on my personal opinion. These are all hypothetical, mind you.