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LutheranScholar
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That’s true, too. Jeez, try listening to Redskins fans go on a tear about the Cowboys… thank God I’m a Saints fan…
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Memaw
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Everything depends on who you ask. God Bless, Memaw
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steido01
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Even here, we should be careful to note that nowhere in our Confessions – no where – do Lutheran stipulate how many books should be in a printed bible or ought to be considered authoritative canon. In fact, Martin Luther’s bible had 74 books – one more than the Roman Catholic bible codified after his death at Trent. He, like the Orthodox, thought the short Prayer of Manasseh was worth having around.
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steido01
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And here I thought you showed such tremendous promise.
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LutheranScholar
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I happen to like the New Orleans Saints ( not as fanatically as I used to, mind you). My father’s people are the huge Redskins fans. I’ve relatives who like the Tennessee Titans, too. When I bother to watch football at all, I’ll try to see who’s playing the NO Saints.
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ptisme
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Guys there’s two things we don’t talk about here: Politics and football… keep it safely at religion
PS, I do believe God is a Green Bay Packers fan
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LutheranScholar
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Information noted and filed.Guys there’s two things we don’t talk about here: Politics and football… keep it safely at religion
PS, I do believe God is a Green Bay Packers fan
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PRmerger
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Guys there’s two things we don’t talk about here: Politics and football… keep it safely at religion
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LutheranScholar
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You’re absolutely right. Luther didn’t even dispense with the Apocrypha… that came later. He just put them between the Old and New Testaments, I believe.
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benjohnson
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If our elders were selling indulgences, buying and selling bishoprics, and electing non-clergy to the highest office, I’d hope they would repent.
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rfournier103
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After watching Super Bowls XLII and XLVI, I am CONVINCED that God is a New York Giants fan. Look up David Tyree and Mario Manningham on YouTube if you doubt me.PS, I do believe God is a Green Bay Packers fan
Although, Super Bowls XXXVI, XXXVIII, and XLIX could make the case that the Almighty has a soft spot for the Patriots as well.
Moving along…
Aside from one vocal and lonely Evangelical Protestant here on this thread; I see numerous Lutherans and not too many others. Where are the Baptists? Where are the Presbyterians? Where are the Methodists? They are free to join Catholic Answers (unlike DOZENS of Protestant sites that deny membership to Catholics). I am saddened that they aren’t involved in this discussion.
I have great respect for the Lutherans that come here in peace (and other Protestants who also come here in peace) to discuss not only our Catholic Faith, but also the larger Christian belief as well.
The thing that concerns me about Protestantism is that aside from Lutherans in general; for the most part other Protestant communities really don’t seem to have any desire for reunion or even understanding.
For example - aside from those wishing to explore Catholicism for a possible entry into the Church - the Presbyterians, Baptists, and Methodists who show up here vigorously debate for a week or three - and either get banned or just walk away. No consesus reached. No desire for understanding. And no closer to all Christians worshiping as one body.
As long as hatred for the Church burns in these communities; there will always be Protestantism.
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pablope
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Well…Luther did change the Bible, not by removing books, but by re-arranging it according to his whim, and he did this even to the NT.
But it was his views that took it to the extreme…forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=809279&page=2
The Canon and the Council
Refuting the Argument that Canon was not established until the Council of Trent
By Gary Michuta
Today, some Protestants are arguing that Luther did not subtract books from the Canon of Scripture, because the canon was not officially adopted until the Council of Trent which began in 1545. Since the canon was not formally recognized prior to Luther’s rejection of the Deuterocanonicals, it is not correct to say that he subtracted books from the Bible.
This type of argument is quickly beginning to become a favorite among our separated brethren. They want to divert attention away from how these books were accepted within Christianity and focus instead on technical language in regards to their definition by the Church.
The fact of the matter is that even if something like the definition given at Trent had happened before Luther’s day, Luther would have rejected it as being in error, and Protestants wouldn’t have abandoned Luther because of his position any more than they abandoned Luther when he brushed aside other councils. In other words, this argument really isn’t about the legitimacy of the Protestant position, but rather it is a form of propaganda to make it look like the Church is dishonest.
In 1519, Johann Eck debated Luther and pointed out to him that the Church had already confirmed that the Deuterocanon was canonical Scripture and he explicitly cited Florence as a proof of this. What was Luther’s response? Was it that the Church has authoritatively defined the canon yet so everything is still up for grabs? This is what the Protestant historian H. H. Howorth says about what Luther said:
“He [Luther] says he knows that he Church had accepted this book [2 Maccabees], but the Church could not give a greater authority and strength to a book than it already possessed by its own virtue.” (Gary Michuta, Why Catholic Bibles Are Bigger, p. 251).
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dcana
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Some questions:
- What was Luther’s opinion of the Deuterocanonicals? Did he consider them Scripture or not? Did his opinion change during his lifetime? Why did he move them in his Bible?
- Obviously, at some point, Protestants ceased believing that they are the inspired Word of God. They now (and it hurts me anytime I see the term used for the Word of God, whether it’s used in places like CAF or in secular sources) call them the “Apocrypha”, no more scriptural than the Gospel of Mani, the Second Treatise of the Great Seth (thanks Wikipedia for those two), or War and Peace.
- Could someone please ‘attempt’ to give an estimation of when most Protestants ceased believing that they are the Word of God?
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aidanbradypop
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I would love to see more people differing faith traditions to come here. Maybe you should start scouting other forums.
I think it also depends on what type of Lutheran you are speaking with. ELCA and LcMC are not interested in unity with Catholicism.
Are far as Evangelicals like myself, we unity is much different to us than what the average Catholic would believe.
Try being an Arminian that joins a Calvinist board. Lol My time here is a cake walk compared to that lol
I would say that some(mostly fundamentalist) have a strong dislike for Catholicism. I do notbhate Catholicism, but simply disagree is all.
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Burdock
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Della, I did consider the catholic church, but left because of its rigid stance on artificial birth control.
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spedteacherita
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You might have meant to say LCMS here? The ELCA have been pretty active on the ecumenical scene. To add to your list, the WELS (more conservative than LCMS) would never be interested either.
Blessings, Dustin!
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aidanbradypop
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I meant LCMC(the Baptist of Lutheranism lol)
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PRmerger
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I don’t think that’s a good paradigm to follow, Burdock.
You shouldn’t leave to find a church that conforms to your views. Rather, you should find the Church that Jesus established and then conform your views to Christ’s.
For, really, if you’re in a church that conforms to every single one of your views, you’re in the church of the Almighty Self, rather than the Church of the Almighty.
It stands to reason that if there is a God, then His Ways are not going to agree with your ways in every single point.
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Burdock
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Typical answer PRemerger
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Burdock
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Typical answer PRemerger
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