The end of Protestantism

[aidanbradypop]

I don’t expect you to agree or even to understand, being separated from the Church. But, it is my duty to present the truth to you. I can only propose it, it is up to you to look into it, with open heart/mind, pray for God’s guidance, and then decide what to do about it.

Della I was raised Evangelical, converted to Catholicism and now back home in Evangelical Protestantism. I havr already decided with an open mind/heart and prayed for guidance from God and received such from the Holy Spirit. I thank you for taking the time to make sure I know the truth.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Well, I don’t want to get further off topic, but how do you regard Vatican I’s statements about Papal Infallibility and Universal Ordinary Jurisdiction? (You may have answered that before, but I don’t recall.)

Well I am not Catholic so I assume that is my answer.

Back to my question. How wide is the gap?

 

[Captain_America]

Do you think Protestantism will die out? I think so.

This is the original post. I agree with the OP poster. There is a lack of doctrinal distinction, and the continued throw-away of unpopular Christian ideas. Eventually they will be social clubs of like-minded demographics, doing some helpful social services in their communities, if they don’t wink out.

You’ll find more mainliners going evangelical (if they don’t just secularize); you’ll find evangelicals continuing, although there will be a tension there; some might find the Catholic Church the strongest defender of Christianity, as the secular forces keep their press.

 

[Peter_J]

I saw this yesterday but didn’t comment at the time:

Guess I am a heretic then.

That’s nothing to smile about

Sure there is. If you wish to degrade someone because they do not believe the Catholic Church to be the one true church then that is ok with me. I simply smile!

Now, having a little more free time … well, I won’t take it upon myself to sort it all out for you, but I’ve found an interesting passage from Sayings of the Desert Fathers:

It was said concerning Abba Agathon that some monks came to find him having heard tell of his great discernment. Wanting to see if he would lose his temper they said to him ‘Aren’t you that Agathon who is said to be a fornicator and a proud man?’ ‘Yes, it is very true,’ he answered. They resumed, ‘Aren’t you that Agothon who is always talking nonsense?’ 'I am." Again they said ‘Aren’t you Agothon the heretic?’ But at that he replied ‘I am not a heretic.’ So they asked him, ‘Tell us why you accepted everything we cast you, but repudiated this last insult.’ He replied ‘The first accusations I take to myself for that is good for my soul. But heresy is separation from God. Now I have no wish to be separated from God.’ At this saying they were astonished at his discernment and returned, edified.

I don’t say that I entirely agree with his logic, but it’s something to think about at least.

 

[Peter_J]

Originally Posted by Peter J View Post
Well, I don’t want to get further off topic, but how do you regard Vatican I’s statements about Papal Infallibility and Universal Ordinary Jurisdiction? (You may have answered that before, but I don’t recall.)

It tells me that you don’t agree with those doctrines, but that’s not what I’m asking. If you want me to spell it out: Do you regard those doctrine as trifling matters? (Because that’s what it sound like from your recent posts, but you haven’t said so explicitly.)

 

[aidanbradypop]

I saw this yesterday but didn’t comment at the time:

Now, having a little more free time … well, I won’t take it upon myself to sort it all out for you, but I’ve found an interesting passage from Sayings of the Desert Fathers:

I don’t say that I entirely agree with his logic, but it’s something to think about at least.

Peter,

If someone feels the need to call me a heretic then more power to them. I know I am not one and when they try to bait an argument, I simply smile and pray that God shows us both mercy.

 

[Peter_J]

Peter,

If someone feels the need to call me a heretic then more power to them. I know I am not one and when they try to bait an argument, I simply smile and pray that God shows us both mercy.

Fair enough. Again, I’m not sure get Abba Agathon’s logic.

 

[aidanbradypop]

It tells me that you don’t agree with those doctrines, but that’s not what I’m asking. If you want me to spell it out: Do you regard those doctrine as trifling matters? (Because that’s what it sound like from your recent posts, but you haven’t said so explicitly.)

Not sure I would call it trifling. I believe the Papal Office is good for the RCC. I also believe the Archbishop of Canterbury is good for Anglicanism.

 

[phil19034]

Well, it’s complicated–that’s the reality of the situation. There was fault and blame on both sides in both instances. The Church never sponsored nor taught heresy, though. Some in the Church went too far or insulted Eastern Christians–that’s what actually happened–just to keep to the truth here. The sad thing that these incidents are still used to keep people from being reconciled to the Church Christ founded.

I was heatened and glad to hear of the Ordinariate for Anglicans. I’m hoping there’ll be others for other recognizable Protestant bodies like Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, etc. I believe such ordinariates would help reunite Christians into full communion with the Church.

I see a lot of good in Protestant bodies from High Church Anglicans to Bible thumping Fundamentalists. The problem is what G. K. Chesterton cited–that each has taken a virtue and exalted it above all others, thus taking Christianity off on tangents–some of them ending in radical heresies–not all of course.

Everything good Protestants bring to the faith we Catholics benefit from–that the truth of the matter. Talking about the possible end of Protestantism isn’t/shouldn’t be triumphalism by Catholics but rather an aching in our hearts for the divisions that need not be. We want our Protestant brethren to be reunited to us so we can be one in bringing Christ and his Gospel of salvation in its fullness to the world. It has been the fallen nature of man and the work of the devil that has separated us against Christ’s prayer and desire that we all be one.

Well said!

 

[phil19034]

We wish the same as well. We pray for our Catholic brothers and sisters to join us in sharing the fullness of the Gospel!

I want to take this line here and comment. NOTE: I’m not saying that this is what you meant, but it’s an issue I have with my dad who left the Catholic Church after 60 years or not practicing it not understanding it.

Catholics do share in the fullness of the Gospel. Especially practicing Catholics. Catholics believe 100% in the Gospel and love Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. There is nothing that the Church does or believes that negates Scripture.

I just want to mention this because too many times, I feel that we Catholics are judged based on the actions of non-practicing Catholics who may or may not believe in the Gospel. Even if a person attends Mass every Sunday, doesn’t mean that they are a “practicing Catholic” or represent Church teaching.

It’s kind of akin to someone judging another solely based on the actions of their sibling. I was the oldest of 5 kids and we really all have different values in some ways. We all had the same upbringing (Cafeteria Catholicism), but we all leaned different lessons in our lives and now we all practice different religions.

I’m now an orthodox Catholic (after dwelling deep into Cafeteria Catholicism and almost to the point of denying the divinity of Christ), my two brothers are who cares Christians (one attends random protestant Churches, the other doesn’t attend anything, my one sister has been bouncing around different protestant Churches in the last 2 years (Baptist to Non-denominational, to now Reform Presbyterian), and by other sister is of the “I’m a good person” view.

Point is, you can’t judge my believes based on my siblings. Therefore, likewise, I wish Catholics were not “judged” by people based on what the Church actually teaches and not what individual dissents or non-practicing Catholics do/say.

I’m sure many protestants don’t like be judged based on what other protestant groups that do not match up with their beliefs.

Sorry for the soap box… we just need to all unite and fight the unprecedented evil that is in this world.

 

[aidanbradypop]

I want to take this line here and comment. NOTE: I’m not saying that this is what you meant, but it’s an issue I have with my dad who left the Catholic Church after 60 years or not practicing it not understanding it.

Catholics do share in the fullness of the Gospel. Especially practicing Catholics. Catholics believe 100% in the Gospel and love Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. There is nothing that the Church does or believes that negates Scripture.

I just want to mention this because too many times, I feel that we Catholics are judged based on the actions of non-practicing Catholics who may or may not believe in the Gospel. Even if a person attends Mass every Sunday, doesn’t mean that they are a “practicing Catholic” or represent Church teaching.

It’s kind of akin to someone judging another solely based on the actions of their sibling. I was the oldest of 5 kids and we really all have different values in some ways. We all had the same upbringing (Cafeteria Catholicism), but we all leaned different lessons in our lives and now we all practice different religions.

I’m now an orthodox Catholic (after dwelling deep into Cafeteria Catholicism and almost to the point of denying the divinity of Christ), my two brothers are who cares Christians (one attends random protestant Churches, the other doesn’t attend anything, my one sister has been bouncing around different protestant Churches in the last 2 years (Baptist to Non-denominational, to now Reform Presbyterian), and by other sister is of the “I’m a good person” view.

Point is, you can’t judge my believes based on my siblings. Therefore, likewise, I wish Catholics were not “judged” by people based on what the Church actually teaches and not what individual dissents or non-practicing Catholics do/say.

I’m sure many protestants don’t like be judged based on what other protestant groups that do not match up with their beliefs.

Sorry for the soap box… we just need to all unite and fight the unprecedented evil that is in this world.

Thanks for the testimony but that is not what I meant.

 

[Della]

Della I was raised Evangelical, converted to Catholicism and now back home in Evangelical Protestantism. I havr already decided with an open mind/heart and prayed for guidance from God and received such from the Holy Spirit. I thank you for taking the time to make sure I know the truth.

Ah, but you aren’t dead yet.

PeterJ, I can’t agree with Abba Agathon that to be a heretic is to have left God. That’s too far reaching and not always true. Perhaps he meant that if he had become a heretic it would amount to leaving God for him, and since he had not embraced heresy it didn’t apply to him.

There are formal heretics–those who with full knowledge of the Church and of their own free will desert her (I don’t think that you aidanbradypop, fall into that category–from what you’ve written I think you were poorly catechised). A material heretic would be what most of our separated brethren are–those who were brought up outside the Catholic faith who know only their own faith or know the Catholic faith little or have major misconceptions about it.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Ah, but you aren’t dead yet.

Very true but happy in my faith and you aren’t dead yet either. Lol

 

[Della]

Very true but happy in my faith and you aren’t dead yet either. Lol

True. I pray we die devoted to Christ and well disposed to meet Our Lord. I pray the same for all of us.

 

[aidanbradypop]

True. I pray we die devoted to Christ and well disposed to meet Our Lord. I pray the same for all of us.

 

[Memaw]

I don’t think the specific term started being used until the 1500s with Calvin and Luther, but in the broader sense of the word (protestantism with a lower case p) you’ve had gnostics, Arians, etc, for ages prior to the Reformation in Europe. There has never before been an instant in the past 2015 years where every person that called themselves Christian was also Catholic.

That may be very true but that doesn’t change the fact that Christ founded ONE Church and prayed for Unity in that One Church and promised the Holy Spirit would be with HIS Church until the end of time and His Church would not teach error. Many have broken away from the One Church and look what’s happened to them. God Bless, Memaw

 

[aidanbradypop]

That may be very true but that doesn’t change the fact that Christ founded ONE Church and prayed for Unity in that One Church and promised the Holy Spirit would be with HIS Church until the end of time and His Church would not teach error. Many have broken away from the One Church and look what’s happened to them. God Bless, Memaw

What has happened to us?

 

[Memaw]

The term schimatic in no way denigrates the Orthodox. It is merely the definition of their standing with the Church. I’m afraid definitions, such as schimatic/heretic, have taken on negative connotations, however they aren’t slurs or meant to be denigrating, they’re just statements of fact. :tiphat:

The Orthodox are the closest to Catholicism in beliefs/practice. We Catholics hold far more in common than not with them. It is mostly a matter of the authority of the papacy that stands in the way of reunion, which all Catholics must hope will one day come about.

Schismatic means they have separated themselves from the authority of the Pope.Their Sacraments are all valid. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Memaw]

What has happened to us?

I think you know. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Della]

Schismatic means they have separated themselves from the authority of the Pope.Their Sacraments are all valid. God Bless, Memaw

Ah yah, I said that.