The end of Protestantism

[smead2942]

Why was my thread moved to the “Non-Catholic Religions” board? I posted it in Apologetics because I was interested in hearing what fellow CATHOLICS had to say.

Dear Lord, this has gone so far off-topic. I’m sorry for ever making it.

 

[JustaServant]

Well Smead, you started a thread with a rather inflammatory statement and never returned to it.
Also, why SHOULDN’T Protestants chime in? It’s their wing of Christ’s Church you are talking about.
Anyway, waaaaaaaaaay back on page six I posted this:

That’s kind of a generalized question that is much harder to answer than to ask. Where in particular do you see it dying? In the US or Europe? If so, what are the circumstances? Many factors, such as economics, prosperity (or lack thereof), wars, population drops all figure in such a question.
In the prosperous, materialistic, wealth-driven US, mega-churches are big. But when circumstances change, they can disappear like the morning dew when the sun comes up.

You have addressed none of the questions I posed.

 

[spedteacherita]

Who am I to try to understand the infinite wisdom of God with my small mind and start naming things that is a mystery. It has been a mystery for 2000 years, why try to change it now? This constant need to explain everything in every detail is what gets the Western Churches all tied up in these endless theories and legalistic viewpoints and doctrines. There is not purgatory as far as I am concerned, and what if anything happens, is a mystery to me.

Agreed! Take God at His Word and don’t try to explain it. It’s far bigger than any of us can imagine and we’re going to be ever so surprised when we get there and see what He really meant!

 

[spedteacherita]

Indeed, He did.

But no one has the absolute assurance that upon his death he is destined for heaven.

This is how Catholics profess we are saved:

Here’s how Catholics believe we are saved:

By believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)

By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)

By baptism (Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)

By eating his flesh and drinking his blood (Jn 6)

By the work of the Spirit (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)

By declaring with our mouths (Lk 12:8; Rom 10:9)

By coming to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)

By works (Rom 2:6-7; James 2:24)

By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)

By his blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)

By his righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)

By keeping the commandments (Matt 19:17)

By our words (Matt 12:37)

By feeding the hungry and clothing the naked (Matt: 25:42)

YES!! And I believe most Protestants,too. At least those who I hang around with…so God plants a seed of Faith within us at baptism, conversion, whenever and the Spirit feeds that seed and we, through our Baptism and Holy Communion (sorry, brain spasm - forgot the word for them) feeds us and we share the fruits of the Spirit with the world.

I’m very clumsy sometimes at trying to put it in words but as Czar said at one point - our minds are so small in comparison to who He really is.

 

[spedteacherita]

Why was my thread moved to the “Non-Catholic Religions” board? I posted it in Apologetics because I was interested in hearing what fellow CATHOLICS had to say.

Dear Lord, this has gone so far off-topic. I’m sorry for ever making it.

I was just thinking that a few minutes ago. We’ll have to start another thread when this one gets full although I’m surprised it’s still going on with all the back and forth. I do have to say, once again I am learning a lot from both sides of the fence…so there is good to the debating.

 

[Memaw]

Think of purgatory as a rather painful (but perversely joyful) peeling away of the scabs that lie on our body, in order to reveal the pure, new, clean skin beneath.

It does remove our sinfulness, or concupiscence, our attachment to sin.

And please note: this is all done by Christ, through Christ, in Christ.

Christ has EVERYTHING to do with this process.

It removes our attachment for sin but not Mortal sins if we’re not repent of them. God Bless, Memaw

 

[PRmerger]

It removes our attachment for sin but not Mortal sins if we’re not repent of them. God Bless, Memaw

Right. Death with mortal sin = hell.

 

[PRmerger]

I’m very clumsy sometimes at trying to put it in words but as Czar said at one point - our minds are so small in comparison to who He really is.

Indeed.

But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to apprehend the Truth.

Remember, we are called to love God with our entire MIND, as well as our hearts and souls.

And St. Peter compels us to ALWAYS give the reason (apologia) for the hope that is within us, with gentleness and reverence. That = apologetics.

 

[PRmerger]

Why was my thread moved to the “Non-Catholic Religions” board? I posted it in Apologetics because I was interested in hearing what fellow CATHOLICS had to say.

Dear Lord, this has gone so far off-topic. I’m sorry for ever making it.

No thread ever remains on topic in the purist sense.

Most questions are answered within the first 1-2 pages, probably within the first 1-2 responses, actually.

The point of a forum is to take a topic and run with it. To dialogue. To try to present a more real and accurate model of reality.

If you didn’t want a discussion, you should have posted in the “Ask an Apologist” forum. Or even just went to one of those sites on the internet where you ask a question, and an “expert” answers it.

Or, you could have posted, and read the first pages, and then never returned.

 

[Peter_J]

Don’t put this on me. I’m just quoting from reliable sources

From my experience I would have to say that Protestants don’t have any trouble finding, and asking about, those kinds of reliable sources (just like we Catholics don’t have trouble finding e.g. “Dr. Martin Luther would have it so” … or if that isn’t a good example I suspect someone or other will supply their favorite). Whose side are you on here?

 

[Peter_J]

Why was my thread moved to the “Non-Catholic Religions” board? I posted it in Apologetics because I was interested in hearing what fellow CATHOLICS had to say.

Dear Lord, this has gone so far off-topic. I’m sorry for ever making it.

I wasn’t even aware that you started it on the A forum … Or if I was I’ve since forgotten. But I confess I am curious what sort of “The end of Protestantism” thread you envisioned?

 

[spedteacherita]

Indeed.

But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to apprehend the Truth.

Remember, we are called to love God with our entire MIND, as well as our hearts and souls.

And St. Peter compels us to ALWAYS give the reason (apologia) for the hope that is within us, with gentleness and reverence. That = apologetics.

I’m working on it!! lol
Thanks, you’re helping whether we agree or not and I appreciate it!

God bless!

Rita

 

[PRmerger]

I’m working on it!! lol
Thanks, you’re helping whether we agree or not and I appreciate it!

God bless!

Rita

 

[smead2942]

I wasn’t even aware that you started it on the A forum … Or if I was I’ve since forgotten. But I confess I am curious what sort of “The end of Protestantism” thread you envisioned?

As I said, I was hoping to hear CATHOLIC responses about the end of Protestantism. My thoughts were that due to growing indifference and nondenominationalism, Protestantism will die. Perhaps not in my lifetime, but in the next few hundred years-- no different than any other heresy the Church has dealt with.

I was not asking Protestants if they think their religion will die. Obviously, they’d say no-- a useless dead end. :banghead:

I don’t want to appear snide, but if I were to ask about the end of Arianism, or Gnosticism, would it be moved to the “Non-Catholic Religions” board as well? …

 

[smead2942]

Well Smead, you started a thread with a rather inflammatory statement and never returned to it.
Also, why SHOULDN’T Protestants chime in? It’s their wing of Christ’s Church you are talking about.
Anyway, waaaaaaaaaay back on page six I posted this:

You have addressed none of the questions I posed.

1. I gave my opinion about the end of Protestantism.
2. I did return to the thread, but couldn’t keep track because everything moved so quickly. It’s hard to keep up with 32 pages.
3. Why shouldn’t Protestants chime in? Because that’s not who I was asking. I posted it in Apologetics because I wanted a variety of Catholic opinions regarding when and how the Protestant heresy will end. Had I wanted a debate, I would’ve posted it here to begin with. Intentional or not, it looks like I have one now. Smh
4. Protestantism is not a wing of Christ’s Church.

 

[Jon_S_1]

1. I gave my opinion about the end of Protestantism.
2. I did return to the thread, but couldn’t keep track because everything moved so quickly. It’s hard to keep up with 32 pages.
3. Why shouldn’t Protestants chime in? Because that’s not who I was asking. I posted it in Apologetics because I wanted a variety of Catholic opinions regarding when and how the Protestant heresy will end. Had I wanted a debate, I would’ve posted it here to begin with. Intentional or not, it looks like I have one now. Smh
4. Protestantism is not a wing of Christ’s Church.

I suggest you just unsubscribe to the thread. This is the nature of the Internet and the forums. The rest of us are having a good time and learning.

 

[dronald]

I don’t want to appear snide, but if I were to ask about the end of Arianism, or Gnosticism, would it be moved to the “Non-Catholic Religions” board as well? …

Gnosticism perhaps, because there still are Gnostics. Maybe not Arianism because no Arians exist to chime in. Although if you said “Jehovah Witnesses” which have some similar views to Arians, then yeah; it would come here.

I believe there’s also rules set in place that prevent people from making a topic poster specific. You could technically say, “Catholic responses only please” in your title, but that can’t prevent someone else from coming in and calling someone out on their malarky.

 

[PRmerger]

“Catholic responses only please” in your title, but that can’t prevent someone else from coming in and calling someone out on their malarky.

Egg-zactly.

 

[ptisme]

The last Protestant assembly i attended met at a college sports arena. Live band, hand clapping, big crowd, mostly young, all upbeat. Heart rendering testimonials. The ushers were doing head counts. Then the predictable happened, They were called (?) to build a church. Never mind there was already a number of churches in the community. That is when i bailed out because i knew what was going to happen next. That is with old timers like me with a few bucks in the bank would end up paying the freight and doing the work. (How much skill or money do college students have?) Went to the Catholic Newman Center down the street. Back with the Catholics ever since.

I hope since you’ve come back “with the Catholics” you studied the theology on the why’s and what’s of the Catholic faith…

 

[steido01]

I see nothing wrong with Trents words here…other than you erroneously reading into the text.

Perhaps I am. I hope I am. Would you kindly show where I’m misunderstanding the text? It seems rather straightforward.

All it says is that presumption of salvation as seen by so many OSAS and faith alone types is wrong. It’s error, it’s pride, and it presumes on Gods mercy.

Responding to the doctrine of the ‘perseverance of the saints’ - a distinctly Calvinist error that has never been taught in Lutheranism - is one thing. And I would agree with Trent, if that were the case. (In fact, I find myself agreeing with a significant portion of Trent, since that council seemed to confuse/conflate Lutheranism with the other movements of the time. I wonder if Catholics think similar things as they read the Lutheran Confessions? Anyway…) But the text doesn’t stop with a simple condemnation of that heresy; it pulls a Galatians 5:12 and emasculates the very core of the Gospel! It says that even the sincerely repentant regenerate cannot be certain that he’s done enough to merit God’s forgiveness. What kind of terrible god offers no substantive assurance?

They go on to say the correct approach is to be assured of Gods mercy, remain in him and do not presume that which you do not know until death.

We commend heathen and heretics to God’s Mercy… and that’s all that Trent is willing to offer the pious believer? I’m not sure that’s assurance at all. But there is good news! God has given assurance to the believer. Scripture and the fathers are clear:

To him all the prophets give testimony, that by his name all receive remission of sins, who believe in him. Acts 10:43

Be it known therefore to you, men, brethren, that through him forgiveness of sins is preached to you: and from all the things, from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. In him every one that believeth, is justified. Acts 13:38-39

Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned according to grace, but according to debt. But to him that worketh not, yet believeth in him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reputed to justice, according to the purpose of the grace of God. Romans 4:4-5

For not through the law was the promise to Abraham, or to his seed, that he should be heir of the world; but through the justice of faith. For if they who are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, the promise is made of no effect. For the law worketh wrath. For where there is no law, neither is there transgression. Therefore is it of faith, that according to grace the promise might be firm to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, Romans 4:13-16

But before the faith came, we were kept under the law shut up, unto that faith which was to be revealed. Wherefore the law was our pedagogue in Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after the faith is come, we are no longer under a pedagogue. For you are all the children of God by faith, in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized in Christ, have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek: there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you be Christ’ s, then are you the seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise. Galatians 3:23-29

But now without the law the justice of God is made manifest, being witnessed by the law and the prophets. Even the justice of God, by faith of Jesus Christ, unto all and upon all them that believe in him: for there is no distinction: For all have sinned, and do need the glory of God. Being justified freely by his grace, through the redemption, that is in Christ Jesus, Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins,

Through the forbearance of God, for the shewing of his justice in this time; that he himself may be just, and the justifier of him, who is of the faith of Jesus Christ. Where is then thy boasting? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we account a man to be justified by faith, without the works of the law. Romans 3:21-28

For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting. For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him. He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the judgment: because the light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the light: for their works were evil. For every one that doth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, that his works may not be reproved. St. John 3:16-20