The Eucharist - Consubstantiation? Symbolic? I don't think so

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Rightlydivide said:
Now to answer your question. We believe that the Lords supper is symbolic. We believe the act of what it represents is important. We share a meal at my church, which is what we believe the Bible is showing. Your starting presuppositions are radically different.
I do not believe that we should destroy Bibles because they can be used to share the gospel of Jesus Christ. If I take the remainder of my loaf of bread, and go to Quick Trip to find teenagers walking out; I do not think my load of bread is going to pack that much of a punch in winning them to Christ.
Now to answer the question, if someone threw a Bible away in front of me. I would assume it was an act of hostility, perhaps they knew I was a Christian. I would ask them what about Christianity upset them. I would not confront them or angryily grab the Bible out of the trash. I would rather try to save a soul than a Bible.
Does that answer your question?
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You are correct; you did answer it. I missed this in the flurryof posts overnight and apologize to you.

One followup–why would you presume it was an act of hostility to throw a Bible in the trash if you take a purely utilitarian view of the Bible?

If I threw a cup of juice away in front of you, would you presume I had hostile intentions or that I had no use for the cup any longer?
 
Teflon93 said:
You are correct; you did answer it. I missed this in the flurryof posts overnight and apologize to you.

One followup–why would you presume it was an act of hostility to throw a Bible in the trash if you take a purely utilitarian view of the Bible?

If I threw a cup of juice away in front of you, would you presume I had hostile intentions or that I had no use for the cup any longer?
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In witnessing to people, I am used to outright hostility about the gospel.
But for the sake of argument, if a group had a purely utilitarian view of the Bible, I would ask them why they could not use that Bible and give it to people to read it. If they thought that was a bad idea, I would think they were wasteful.
I have talked with Fred Phelps and Shirly Roper for 20 minutes, fringe groups do not get me too worked up.
 
I’m sorry; I formulated my followup unclearly.

When you said that you wouldn’t like to see a Bible thrown in the trash because it could be used to spread the Gospel, I shorthanded that as “the utilitarian view.”

I am unclear as to why given that view you would assume someone throwing a Bible in the trash to be hostile.

After all, if someone tossed something useful in the trash in front of me, I’d think they were perhaps wasteful, but not hostile.

Why would you assume this to be a hostile act?
 
Teflon93 said:
I’m sorry; I formulated my followup unclearly.

When you said that you wouldn’t like to see a Bible thrown in the trash because it could be used to spread the Gospel, I shorthanded that as “the utilitarian view.”

I am unclear as to why given that view you would assume someone throwing a Bible in the trash to be hostile.

After all, if someone tossed something useful in the trash in front of me, I’d think they were perhaps wasteful, but not hostile.

Why would you assume this to be a hostile act?
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Because I have never heard or seen a Christian throw a Bible in a trash can. Granted I have not been a Christian my whole life but I am fairly familiar with all the different groups.
I watched a rally in college where they ripped a Bible up and people urinated on it. It was hostile.
If that is an unreasonable view, I am sure others on here will let me know.
 
Rightlydivide said:
Because I have never heard or seen a Christian throw a Bible in a trash can. Granted I have not been a Christian my whole life but I am fairly familiar with all the different groups.
I watched a rally in college where they ripped a Bible up and people urinated on it. It was hostile.
If that is an unreasonable view, I am sure others on here will let me know.
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I think you’re quite correct, but why wouldn’t a Christian throw a Bible in the trash can?
 
Teflon93 said:
I think you’re quite correct, but why wouldn’t a Christian throw a Bible in the trash can?
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Because it can be given to someone to share the gospel.
And can be read and reread.
It can be donated to a library.
It can even be sold on ebay.
 
I don’t believe a Christian would throw a Bible into the trash. That is sacred scripture. The Word of God.
 
Rightlydivide said:
Because it can be given to someone to share the gospel.
And can be read and reread.
It can be donated to a library.
It can even be sold on ebay.
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That doesn’t speak to hostility on the part of someone throwing it away, however.
 
mojob said:
I don’t believe a Christian would throw a Bible into the trash. That is sacred scripture. The Word of God.
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Right on. 👍

The Bible is more than a book, just as the American flag is more than a piece of cloth.

It symbolizes and evokes the most important fact of our existence: that we are creations of the Creator, and that He loves us and would have us love Him.

I have never thrown away a Bible in my life. I’ve always given unused Bibles to charity. I still have several which I have not been able to bring myself to part with, although our family Bible is the one I use.

When someone in a religious service repeats Christ’s commandments at the Last Supper and speaks those words— “This is my body”; “This is my blood”—it’s no longer mere bread, even in the hands of someone lacking valid orders. In the latter case, it certainly is not the Eucharist, the greatest of all God’s gifts for it is God Himself; but it is symbolic of it.

Tossing it in the trash like yesterday’s leftovers is freighted with the same symbolism that tossing a Bible in the trash would have. Or like tossing an American flag in the trash to use a secular example.

To use another example, if I picked up a glass and said, “This is Jesus” and smashed that glass in front of you, the Christian would almost surely take offense, although they know that the glass is not in fact Jesus. The symbol and the action is sufficient.

Thus, RightlyDivide, this Catholic certainly takes offense at those Protestants who mimic the Last Supper (mimicking the Mass by extension), claim that the bread is the body and the wine/juice the blood of Christ, then cast them aside as though casting him aside.

I don’t expect you to agree, but by relating it to things you do revere—the Bible, the flag—I hope that you can see our perspective although you do not believe in the Eucharist.
 
Of course I see your perspective. I do not agree with your perspective Teflon.
I think you do not see OUR perspective. But I could be wrong. Regardless, you have explained your view. I have explained mine.
 
If you read scripture, how can you not believe that the Eucharist is truly the Body & Blood of Christ? Yes said those very words on Holy Thursday at the Last Supper. We have been reenacting that meal for 2000 years.
 
mojob said:
If you read scripture, how can you not believe that the Eucharist is truly the Body & Blood of Christ? Yes said those very words on Holy Thursday at the Last Supper. We have been reenacting that meal for 2000 years.
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Is re-enact the word you wanted to use?

Edit: And if you press the Edit button on your post (within 15 minutes of posting it), you can make the changes necessary.

I call it the “Notworthy Rule”.
 
Rightlydivide said:
Of course I see your perspective. I do not agree with your perspective Teflon.
I think you do not see OUR perspective. But I could be wrong. Regardless, you have explained your view. I have explained mine.
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I am a convert to Catholicism (Tiber Swim Team Member) who spent extensive time in various Protestant communities—raised Episcopalian, married by a Presbyterian, went through Methodist equivalent to RCIA, spent several years attending Pentecostal Church of God community, even spent a year or so at Rick Warren’s Saddleback Church.

I think I understand the Protestant perspective on this pretty well.

We would disagree on the source of that perspective in all likelihood.
 
mojob said:
If you read scripture, how can you not believe that the Eucharist is truly the Body & Blood of Christ? Yes said those very words on Holy Thursday at the Last Supper. We have been reenacting that meal for 2000 years.
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likewise
 
Teflon93 said:
I am a convert to Catholicism (Tiber Swim Team Member) who spent extensive time in various Protestant communities—raised Episcopalian, married by a Presbyterian, went through Methodist equivalent to RCIA, spent several years attending Pentecostal Church of God community, even spent a year or so at Rick Warren’s Saddleback Church.

I think I understand the Protestant perspective on this pretty well.

We would disagree on the source of that perspective in all likelihood.
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Very good.
 
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