THE EUCHARIST - How can anyone claim to “believe” in Jesus, if they deny what He taught and will not follow what He said?

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THE EUCHARIST - How can anyone claim to “believe” in Jesus, if they deny what He taught and will not follow what He said? How can anyone claim to “believe” in Jesus, if they deny the most basic Christian truths? How can anyone claim to “believe” in Jesus, if they reject and abandon early Christian History and early Christian Traditions?
**What is the “official” non-Catholic (Protestant) Christian position on the Eucharist? **

THE EUCHARIST, “The Real Presence”. Also here

**John 6:51-56 **
51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world."
52 The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?”
53 Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
54 Whoever eats 19 my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

**1 Corinthians 11:23-29 **
2311 For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread,
24 and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, “This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”
25 In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.
27Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. 12
28 A person should examine himself, 13 and so eat the bread and drink the cup.
29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment 14 on himself.

**Matthew 26:26- 28 **
26 14 15 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, “Take and eat; this is my body.”
27 Then he took a cup, gave thanks, 16 and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you,
28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.
 
**Mark 14:22, 24 **
22 7 While they were eating, he took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, and said, “Take it; this is my body.”
23 Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, and they all drank from it.
24 He said to them, "This is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed 8 for many.
**Luke 24:30-31 **
30 And it happened that, while he was with them at table, he took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them.
31 With that their eyes were opened and they recognized him, but he vanished from their sight.
32 Then they said to each other, “Were not our hearts burning (within us) while he spoke to us on the way and opened the scriptures to us?”
33 So they set out at once and returned to Jerusalem where they found gathered together the eleven and those with them
34 who were saying, “The Lord has truly been raised and has appeared to Simon!”
35 Then the two recounted what had taken place on the way and how he was made known to them in the breaking of the bread.

**1 Corinthians 10:16. **
16 The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?

**Ephesians 4:3-6 **
3 striving to preserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace:
4 2 one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

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The Didache (60 A.D.)****

“The Lord’s Teaching Through the Twelve Apostles to the Nations.”
Chapter 9. The Thanksgiving (Eucharist)

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***The Real Presence ***

Ignatius of Antioch
“… I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ,… ”
(*Letter to the Romans *7:3 A.D. 110]).

Justin Martyr
“We call this food Eucharist, and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true…. For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus” (*First Apology *66 A.D. 151]).

Irenaeus
“If the Lord were from other than the Father, how could he rightly take bread, which is of the same creation as our own, and confess it to be his body and affirm that the mixture in the cup is his blood?” (*Against Heresies *4:33–32 A.D. 189]).
“He has declared the cup, a part of creation, to be his own blood…he has established as his own body, from which he gives increase unto our bodies. …the Word of God and becomes the Eucharist, the body of Christ, and from these the substance of our flesh is increased and supported, how can they say that the flesh is not capable of receiving the gift of God, which is eternal life—flesh which is nourished by the body and blood of the Lord, and is in fact a member of him?” (ibid., 5:2).

Clement of Alexandria
“’Eat my flesh,’ [Jesus] says, ‘and drink my blood.’ The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients, he delivers over his flesh and pours out his blood, and nothing is lacking for the growth of his children” (*The Instructor of Children *1:6:43:3 [A.D. 191]).

Tertullian
“[T]here is not a soul that can at all procure salvation, except it believe whilst it is in the flesh, so true is it that the flesh is the very condition on which salvation hinges. And since the soul is, in consequence of its salvation, chosen to the service of God, it is the flesh which actually renders it capable of such service. The flesh, indeed, is washed [in baptism], in order that the soul may be cleansed . . . the flesh is shadowed with the imposition of hands [in confirmation], that the soul also may be illuminated by the Spirit; the flesh feeds [in the Eucharist] on the body and blood of Christ, that the soul likewise may be filled with God” (*The Resurrection of the Dead *8 A.D. 210]).

Hippolytus
“‘And she [Wisdom] has furnished her table’ [Prov. 9:2] . . . refers to his [Christ’s] honored and undefiled body and blood, which day by day are administered and offered sacrificially at the spiritual divine table, as a memorial of that first and ever-memorable table of the spiritual divine supper *” (Fragment from *Commentary on Proverbs *A.D. 217]).

More here*
 
Jimmy_B said:
THE EUCHARIST - How can anyone claim to “believe” in Jesus, if they deny what He taught and will not follow what He said? How can anyone claim to “believe” in Jesus, if they deny the most basic Christian truths? How can anyone claim to “believe” in Jesus, if they reject and abandon early Christian History and early Christian Traditions?
**What is the “official” non-Catholic (Protestant) Christian position on the Eucharist? **

THE EUCHARIST, “The Real Presence”. Also here

John 6:51-56
51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world."
52 The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?”
53 Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
54 Whoever eats 19 my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

1 Corinthians 11:23-29
2311 For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread,
24 and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, “This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”
25 In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.
27Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. 12
28 A person should examine himself, 13 and so eat the bread and drink the cup.
29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment 14 on himself.

Matthew 26:26- 28
26 14 15 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, “Take and eat; this is my body.”
27 Then he took a cup, gave thanks, 16 and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you,
28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.
Click to expand...
Why do you keep asking questions and then in a condescending manner, give a fully detailed answer?? Aren’t you getting tired of insulting those who may not agree with you?
 
***The Real Presence ***

Origen
“… in full view, there is the true food, the flesh of the Word of God, as he himself says: ‘My flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink’ [John 6:55]” (*Homilies on Numbers *7:2 A.D. 248]).

Cyprian of Carthage
“He [Paul] threatens, moreover, the stubborn and forward, and denounces them, saying, ‘Whosoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily, is guilty of the body and blood of the Lord’ [1 Cor. 11:27]. All these warnings being scorned and contemned—[lapsed Christians will often take Communion] before their sin is expiated, before confession has been made of their crime, before their conscience has been purged by sacrifice and by the hand of the priest, before the offense of an angry and threatening Lord has been appeased, [and so] violence is done to his body and blood; and they sin now against their Lord more with their hand and mouth than when they denied their Lord” (*The Lapsed *15–16 A.D. 251]).

Council of Nicaea I
“… the Eucharist to the presbyters *, whereas neither canon nor custom permits that they who have no right to offer [the Eucharistic sacrifice] should give the Body of Christ to them that do offer [it]” (Canon 18 A.D. 325]).

Aphraahat the Persian Sage
“After having spoken thus [at the Last Supper], the Lord rose up from the place where he had made the Passover and had given his body as food and his blood as drink……and before he was crucified he gave his blood as drink” (Treatises 12:6 A.D. 340]).

Cyril of Jerusalem
“The bread and the wine of the Eucharist before the holy invocation of the adorable Trinity were simple bread and wine, but the invocation having been made, the bread becomes the body of Christ and the wine the blood of Christ” (*Catechetical Lectures *19:7 A.D. 350]).

“Do not, therefore, regard the bread and wine as simply that; for they are, according to the Master’s declaration, the body and blood of Christ. Even though the senses suggest to you the other, let faith make you firm. Do not judge in this matter by taste, but be fully assured by the faith, not doubting that you have been deemed worthy of the body and blood of Christ. . . . [Since you are] fully convinced that the apparent bread is not bread, even though it is sensible to the taste, but the body of Christ, and that the apparent wine is not wine, even though the taste would have it so, . . . partake of that bread as something spiritual, and put a cheerful face on your soul” (ibid., 22:6, 9).

Ambrose of Milan
“Perhaps you may be saying, ‘I see something else; how can you assure me that I am receiving the body of Christ?’ It but remains for us to prove it. And how many are the examples we might use! . . . Christ is in that sacrament, because it is the body of Christ” (*The Mysteries *9:50, 58 A.D. 390]).

More here*
 
***The Real Presence ***

Theodore of Mopsuestia
“When [Christ] gave the bread he did not say, ‘This is the symbol of my body,’ but, ‘This is my body.’ In the same way, when he gave the cup of his blood he did not say, ‘This is the symbol of my blood,’ but, ‘This is my blood’; for he wanted us to look upon the [Eucharistic elements] after their reception of grace and the coming of the Holy Spirit not according to their nature, but receive them as they are, the body and blood of our Lord. We ought . . . not regard [the elements] merely as bread and cup, but as the body and blood of the Lord, into which they were transformed by the descent of the Holy Spirit” (*Catechetical Homilies *5:1 A.D. 405]).

Augustine
“Christ was carried in his own hands when, referring to his own body, he said, ‘This is my body’ [Matt. 26:26]. For he carried that body in his hands” (*Explanations of the Psalms *33:1:10 A.D. 405]).

" . . . That bread which you see on the altar, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the body of Christ. That chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the blood of Christ" (*Sermons *227 A.D. 411]).

Council of Ephesus
“… and so go on to the mystical thanksgivings, and are sanctified, having received his holy flesh and the precious blood of Christ the Savior of us all. And not as common flesh do we receive it; God forbid: nor as of a man sanctified and associated with the Word according to the unity of worth, or as having a divine indwelling, but as truly the life-giving and very flesh of the Word himself. For he is the life according to his nature as God, and when he became united to his flesh, he made it also to be life-giving” (Session 1, *Letter of Cyril to Nestorius *[A.D. 431]).

More here

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CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH –“Eucharist” - 611; 790; 1088; 1323; 1329; 1335-1340; 1373-1377; 1382; 1390-1394; 1406; 1413; 1416; 1846; 2120.
 
SIA said:
Why do you keep asking questions and then in a condescending manner, give a fully detailed answer?? Aren’t you getting tired of insulting those who may not agree with you?
Click to expand...
I am providing a detailed “Catholic” response and would like to see the “detailed” Protestant response.

Your comment here is not a response.

Thank You
 
Jimmy_B said:
I am providing a detailed “Catholic” response and would like to see the “detailed” Protestant response.

Your comment here is not a response.

Thank You
Click to expand...
not according to you but it is the truth.
 
SIA said:
not according to you but it is the truth.
Click to expand...
Hello SIA,

Yes, the order of the Mass, the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, the Bible verses and other quotes that I provided and linked here, are all true, do you have any evidence to the contrary?

Thank you for your post, God bless you. 🙂
 
I am Catholic but I can give the protestant response,

Jesus didnt leave a Church, I am my own infallible authority and I Decide what scripture means and what is believed andI can read the Bible and thats all I need…so I make my own rules and own church.
 
David_Vestal said:
I am Catholic but I can give the protestant response,

Jesus didnt leave a Church, I am my own infallible authority and I Decide what scripture means and what is believed andI can read the Bible and thats all I need…so I make my own rules and own church.
Click to expand...
I find that offensive beyond belief.

I’ll work on a detailed response though. Challenge accepted. 👍
 
Jimmy_B said:
THE EUCHARIST - How can anyone claim to “believe” in Jesus, if they deny what He taught and will not follow what He said? How can anyone claim to “believe” in Jesus, if they deny the most basic Christian truths? How can anyone claim to “believe” in Jesus, if they reject and abandon early Christian History and early Christian Traditions?
**What is the “official” non-Catholic (Protestant) Christian position on the Eucharist? **

THE EUCHARIST, “The Real Presence”. Also here

John 6:51-56
51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world."
52 The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?”
53 Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
54 Whoever eats 19 my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

1 Corinthians 11:23-29
2311 For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread,
24 and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, “This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”
25 In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.
27Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. 12
28 A person should examine himself, 13 and so eat the bread and drink the cup.
29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment 14 on himself.

Matthew 26:26- 28
26 14 15 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, “Take and eat; this is my body.”
27 Then he took a cup, gave thanks, 16 and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you,
28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.
Click to expand...
Jesus said, “I am the true vine.” and “I am the good shepherd.” You don’t believe that Jesus is actually a vine or a shepherd? He was talking symbolically there. So how is it that when he said “I am the bread of life.” you believe that actually becomes bread?
 
Jesuspaiditall said:
Jesus said, “I am the true vine.” and “I am the good shepherd.” You don’t believe that Jesus is actually a vine or a shepherd? He was talking symbolically there. So how is it that when he said “I am the bread of life.” you believe that actually becomes bread?
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Point taken. There are times when Jesus speaks metaphorically.
I’m not a chapter and verse man myself, but when Jesus spoke of being a vine, does the Gospel record that many disciples left Him and did not continue to follow Him? It does record this when He tells them that they must eat His Flesh and drink His Blood. It also records that he let them leave.

Peace
James
 
Jimmy_B said:
THE EUCHARIST - How can anyone claim to “believe” in Jesus, if they deny what He taught and will not follow what He said? How can anyone claim to “believe” in Jesus, if they deny the most basic Christian truths? How can anyone claim to “believe” in Jesus, if they reject and abandon early Christian History and early Christian Traditions?
**What is the “official” non-Catholic (Protestant) Christian position on the Eucharist? **
Click to expand...
Hi Jimmy. How are you?

From the CAF link you posted:
The doctrine of the Real Presence asserts that in the Holy Eucharist, Jesus is literally and wholly present—body and blood, soul and divinity—under the appearances of bread and wine.
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From the Apology of the Augsburg Confession:
we believe, that in the Lord’s Supper the body and blood of Christ are truly and substantially present, and are truly tendered, with those things which are seen, bread and wine, to those who receive the Sacrament.
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Virtually interchangeable. I think we agree (again)!

Jon
 
myredeemerlives said:
I find that offensive beyond belief.
Click to expand...
It appears that you also find the Eucharist offensive beyond belief. And the rest of the Sacraments, the Communion of Saints, Apostolic succession, the veneration of Mary, the unity of Christ’s church…

Do not look to the writings of Luther to have your back, he also believed in these. What has happened to Christianity since even Luther? For many, it has become an LCD (lowest common denominator) faith. Dumbed down to only that which can be mis-read by each reader.

Heaven weeps.
 
David_Vestal said:
I am Catholic but I can give the protestant response,

Jesus didnt leave a Church, I am my own infallible authority and I Decide what scripture means and what is believed andI can read the Bible and thats all I need…so I make my own rules and own church.
Click to expand...
The only possible modification here is: “my church is the hidden remnant of the true church”. The spirit of antichrist has inspired many to claim this. And, they believe it.
 
You are amazing once again Jimmy B. 🙂

Our Lord Jesus truly present in the Eucharist thanks you.
May God reward you for your diligence in proclaiming the truth and defense of what Christ taught. :blessyou:
 
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