The Eucharist in Lutheran and other protestant religions?

[steve-b]

steve-b:

This is why valid ordination is required. No valid holy orders, then no valid ordinations, and no valid Eucharist

That identifies all of Protestantism regardless of stripe.

That is the Catholic view.

It’s the view from the only Church Our Lord established.

 

[JonNC]

JonNC:

steve-b:

This is why valid ordination is required. No valid holy orders, then no valid ordinations, and no valid Eucharist

That identifies all of Protestantism regardless of stripe.

That is the Catholic view.

It’s the view from the only Church Our Lord established.

That’s indeed the Catholic view.

 

[AugustTherese]

And there’s the difference. Lutherans don’t talk about substances and accidents. Why? Because Christ didn’t talk about it that way

So, it’s permissible to talk about Trinitarian elements and concepts, something that Christ did not “talk about it that way”, but when it comes to Eucharistic elements and concepts, then all of the sudden it’s impermissible?

 

[JonNC]

So, it’s permissible to talk about Trinitarian elements and concepts, something that Christ did not “talk about it that way”, but when it comes to Eucharistic elements and concepts, then all of the sudden it’s impermissible?

Well, since I didn’t say that, you’ll have to ask someone who does.
Go ahead and read the rest of that post.

 

[De_Maria]

De_Maria:

After the consecration, He was holding His Body and Blood, in the Holy Eucharist.

Yes… so, at that moment the bread is the body.

This is not ordinary bread. It is the Bread of God:

John 6:33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

JonNC:

steve-b:

This is why valid ordination is required. No valid holy orders, then no valid ordinations, and no valid Eucharist

That identifies all of Protestantism regardless of stripe.

That is the Catholic view.

It’s the view from the only Church Our Lord established.

That’s indeed the Catholic view.

For those reading this thread, when John Henry Newman was still an Anglican Protestant, he was doing some soul searching of his own. As you know, he made the following quote famous.

"To be deep in history is to cease being a Protestant"

That quote is HUGE.

And he became Catholic after that. Because he knew, applying the same measure, he couldn’t be Eastern Orthodox either. To be deep in history is to be Catholic.

 

[JonNC]

After the consecration, He was holding His Body and Blood, in the Holy Eucharist.

Yes… so, at that moment the bread is the body.

This is not ordinary bread. It is the Bread of God:

John 6:33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

Amen…::.:

 

[JonNC]

And he became Catholic after that. Because he knew, applying the same measure, he couldn’t be Eastern Orthodox either. To be deep in history is to be Catholic.

As you know, we differ on that point. One need not be in communion with the Pope to be truly Catholic

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

And he became Catholic after that. Because he knew, applying the same measure, he couldn’t be Eastern Orthodox either. To be deep in history is to be Catholic.

As you know, we differ on that point. One need not be in communion with the Pope to be truly Catholic

The Church whose name you’re trying to usurp, has the say in who is Catholic. You’re not Catholic. You can argue all you want. Bottomline, the one you have to convince is NOT me, it’s Jesus, and good luck with that given He hates division from His Church. You know the scriptures. I’ve given them a ton of times.

 

[JonNC]

The Church whose name you’re trying to usurp, has the say in who is Catholic. You’re not Catholic. You can argue all you want. Bottomline, the one you have to convince is NOT me, it’s Jesus, and good luck with that given He hates division from His Church. You know the scriptures. I’ve given them a ton of times.

Yes He does hate division in the Church.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

The Church whose name you’re trying to usurp, has the say in who is Catholic. You’re not Catholic. You can argue all you want. Bottomline, the one you have to convince is NOT me, it’s Jesus, and good luck with that given He hates division from His Church. You know the scriptures. I’ve given them a ton of times.

Yes He does hate division in the Church.

You are in division from His Church. I’ve given references tons of times

 

[JonNC]

You are in division from His Church. I’ve given references tons of times

References from the “Roman” Catholic point of view, Steve.
I am, indeed, the division inHis Church. So are you.
The divisions are mutual. The sin is mutual. If either side believes their side is innocent, they’re deceiving themselves and actually making the division worse.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

You are in division from His Church. I’ve given references tons of times

References from the “Roman” Catholic point of view, Steve.
I am, indeed, the division inHis Church. So are you.

Not me.

JonNC:

The divisions are mutual. The sin is mutual. If either side believes their side is innocent, they’re deceiving themselves and actually making the division worse.

Newman didn’t buy your argument. http://www.newmanreader.org/works/development/introduction.html

 

[De_Maria]

steve-b:

And he became Catholic after that. Because he knew, applying the same measure, he couldn’t be Eastern Orthodox either. To be deep in history is to be Catholic.

As you know, we differ on that point. One need not be in communion with the Pope to be truly Catholic

Then why does Scripture say:

Ephesians 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

One faith If one version of Christianity can believe a certain doctrine, such as, who is head of the Church. And another version believe that they submit to another earthly head, how is that one faith?

If one version admits all forms of contraception and permits even homosexuals to receive blessing at their weddings. But another doesn’t. How is that one Church?

 

[exnihilo]

What Lutherans believe concerning the Eucharist is something that you need to ask a particular Lutheran. Lutherans follow Sola Scriptura and believe in private interpretation of Scripture. Therefore, they generally follow their own opinions.

I don’t completely disagree but that is a little unfair. Lutherans do have doctrinal statements. The fact that individual Lutherans don’t know or assent to them is no different than the great ignorance among Catholic laity. And that ignorance and lack of assent doesn’t mean the Catholic Church has no particular teaching on the subject.

I say I don’t completely disagree because I agree Sola Scriptura, in practice, allows the individual to form his own doctrine. But more importantly there is no recognition of an authoritative church to which one submits even when he disagrees.

 

[JonNC]

Not me.

Oh, yes. You, too…

 

[AugustTherese]

One need not be in communion with the Pope to be truly Catholic

If you want to be in full communion with the Catholic Church, one absolutely needs to be in communion with the Pope. Not to get too far off topic, but where does your seeming antipathy for the Pope stem from?

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

Not me.

Oh, yes. You, too…

Nope!

Newman gave a real good explanation… don’t ya think? Oh yeah. You didn’t open the link. Oh well, others reading this thread can open it if they choose.

 

[De_Maria]

I say I don’t completely disagree because I agree Sola Scriptura, in practice, allows the individual to form his own doctrine. But more importantly there is no recognition of an authoritative church to which one submits even when he disagrees.

Bingo! And I’ve spoken to many Lutherans through the years and this is what they have told me, as well.

 

[JonNC]

If you want to be in full communion with the Catholic Church, one absolutely needs to be in communion with the Pope. Not to get too far off topic, but where does your seeming antipathy for the Pope stem from?

What makes you think I hold antipathy towards the pope? I consider Pope JPII to be among the greatest Christians of my lifetime, and I love Benedict. I just don’t believe universal jurisdiction is scriptural or in keeping with the Tradition of the earlyChurch