The Expectation of the Messiah

[YKohen]

The Ark is hidden somewhere and when the Temple will get rebuilt we will have the Ark back also. Maybe it’s better that the Ark will be lost until the Messiah comes. I believe they took it out back in the day in order to safe it.

True. There are differences of opinion on it.

G-d willing, we will find out the real answer soon!

 

[YKohen]

i think From what I’ve read the Jews expect the Messiah to be a political and military leader who will free the Jews and inaugurate sovereignty over the rest of the nations. It just seems to me even if the Messiah does conqueror by political and military might won’t the Jews stuff it up once again as they did many times over by their “turning away from God”?

G-d said we won’t. I trust Him.

 

[KathleenGee]

I read that some day the Ark will be found.

Others say it is now fulfilled with Jesus Christ’s presence among us in the tabernacle, always with the lit sanctuary.

I personally believe it will be found.

Judaism and authentic Christianity are two lamps to the world. I believe they will merge into the New Jerusalem.

But my pastor told us one time, ‘oh my…when they start rebuilding the Temple…’ That is all he said.

Will then the temple be built approximate to the mosque there in Jerusalem? That will cause hell to break out throughout the world…WWIV…the last war…armageddon. There is talk of antichrist assuming throne…Rome? Jerusalem?

Rather far out…and very unsettling for me.

Three times there was attempts to rebuild the Temple. Then Justin the Apostate, Roman emperor who was baptized Christian, then rejected the faith, had his subjects attempt to rebuild the temple to prove Christianity wrong. So many things happened, it had to stop.
He was unable to do anything in rebuilding the temple.

 

[joe370]

YKohen;10381994]True: Jaconia and his seed were out.

Jesus wasn’t of the Davidic line. According to your belief

, his father wasn’t a descendant of David, and of course, the line never goes through the mother (or adoption, which never had any status in Jewish lineage).
New Testament claims that Jesus is the SON OF DAVID, the son of Abraham…

Genesis 3:15 says: “the seed of the woman” not “the seed of man.” Like you said: The seed, all through history, is always traced through the male line, with one exception to the rule, as per scripture. This is the only place in the word of God where a person is called the “seed of the woman."

“And I shall place enmity between you (satan) and between the woman, and between your seed and between her seed. He will crush your head, and you will bite his heel.”

Jesus the Christ certainly qualified as the “seed of the woman.” Where did the seed come from? It did not come from a man of the Davidic line?

The Messiah will not descend from either Zedikiah or Jeconiah? OK. Could you please provide a name(s) in scripture from which the family tree(s) that you mentioned, (going back to King David) could come?

 

[YKohen]

New Testament claims that Jesus is the SON OF DAVID, the son of Abraham…

New Testament says he was the son of G-d, which would naturally rule out being the son of any man. You want to have it both ways.

Genesis 3:15 says: “the seed of the woman” not “the seed of man.” Like you said: The seed, all through history, is always traced through the male line, with one exception to the rule, as per scripture. This is the only place in the word of God where a person is called the “seed of the woman."

“And I shall place enmity between you (satan) and between the woman, and between your seed and between her seed. He will crush your head, and you will bite his heel.”

Jesus the Christ certainly qualified as the “seed of the woman.” Where did the seed come from? It did not come from a man of the Davidic line?

1. Seed was always traced throught the male line, and there were never any exceptions.
2. What does Genesis, which is talking about Eve, have to do with Mary?
3. Take a look at the verse WITH the verse before:
4. And the L-rd G-d said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, cursed be you more than all the cattle and more than all the beasts of the field; you shall walk on your belly, and you shall eat dust all the days of your life.
5. And I shall place hatred between you and between the woman, and between your offspring and between her offspring. He will crush your head, and you will bite his heel."
   The original Hebrew word is זַרְעֲךָ, which can mean either “your seed” or “your offspring”.

The snake enticed the woman (Eve).G-d is simply telling the snake that because of what he did to entice her, her offspring and his offspring will hate each other.

I think you’re reading something into the text that isn’t there. G-d is speaking with a woman about her offspring. What other terminology would He use?

The Messiah will not descend from either Zedikiah or Jeconiah? OK. Could you please provide a name(s) in scripture from which the family tree(s) that you mentioned, (going back to King David) could come?

Again, see my previous post. Just because specific names aren’t mentioned doesn’t mean that they didn’t exist. Again, Jews today can trace their lineage back to King David- and they did throughout history.

 

[joe370]

Kohen;10386635]New Testament says he was the son of G-d, which would naturally rule out being the son of any man. You want to have it both ways.

OK.

1. Seed was always traced throught the male line, and there were never any exceptions.

Agreed.

1. What does Genesis, which is talking about Eve, have to do with Mary?

“And I shall place enmity between you** (satan) **and between the woman, and between your (satan) seed and between her seed. He will crush your head, and you will bite his heel.”

So Eve’s seed, (or offspring) in your opinion, will crush the head of satan?

 

[joe370]

YKohen

Again, see my previous post. Just because specific names aren’t mentioned doesn’t mean that they didn’t exist. Again, Jews today can trace their lineage back to King David- and they did throughout history.

So there is no way for you to provide a name in the scriptures (in light of Jeremiah 22) from which the family tree(s) that you mentioned, (going back to King David) could descend?

Is it an oral tradition that certain Jews today can trace their lineage all the back to King David?

O land, land, land,
hear the word of the Lord!
This is what the Lord says:
“Record this man as if childless,
a man who will not prosper in his lifetime,
for none of his offspring will prosper,
none will sit on the throne of David
or rule anymore in Judah.”

There are Jews today can trace their lineage back to King David through someone other than Jehoiachin? If that is the case, and it is legitimate, then what was the point of God saying:
…none of his offspring will prosper,
none will sit on the throne of David
or rule anymore in Judah.

 

[YKohen]

So Eve’s seed, (or offspring) in your opinion, will crush the head of satan?

The children of Eve, i.e. mankind, will hate snakes and kill them when they find them.

There is no mention of Satan.

It’s the simple meaning of the verse.

 

[joe370]

The children of Eve, i.e. mankind, will hate snakes and kill them when they find them.

There is no mention of Satan.

It’s the simple meaning of the verse.

You believe God is talking about mere snakes, regarding Adam and Eve’s temptation. I never heard that one before. OK.

 

[YKohen]

So there is no way for you to provide a name in the scriptures (in light of Jeremiah 22) from which the family tree(s) that you mentioned, (going back to King David) could descend?

Is it an oral tradition that certain Jews today can trace their lineage all the back to King David?

There are no names given explicitly in the Torah, but that doesn’t mean that Solomon, with 700 wives, had only one child.

The oral tradition is that certain, and as I pointed out, this existed throughout history- and was recorded in a number of books.

The oral tradition, from father to son, is also how I know that I am a direct descendant of Aaron.

 

[YKohen]

You believe God is talking about mere snakes, regarding Adam and Eve’s temptation. I never heard that one before. OK.

That verse is talking about snakes. Again, it’s the plain understanding of the verse- without having to go into all kinds of acrobatics.

 

[joe370]

That verse is talking about snakes. Again, it’s the plain understanding of the verse- without having to go into all kinds of acrobatics.

How can a snake talk?

Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

 

[YKohen]

…none of his offspring will prosper, none will sit on the throne of David or rule anymore in Judah.

Again, that is ONLY talking about Coniah, as you can see from the previous verse.

 

[YKohen]

How can a snake talk?

How could Bilaam’s donkey talk (Numbers 22:28)?

I have a meeting now. Have a great day.

 

[joe370]

Again, that is ONLY talking about Coniah, as you can see from the previous verse.

OK. I am absolutely sure there are Jews today that can trace their lineage all the way back to King David through someone other than Jehoiachin aka Coniah? With that said, if the future Messiah/King descending from another line other than Coniah, would in fact be a legitimate descendent to sit on the Throne of David, then what was the whole point…the relevance of God saying the following? I am trying to understand things from your perspective!

Why will he and his children be hurled out,
cast into a land they do not know?
29 O land, land, land,
hear the word of the Lord!
30 This is what the Lord says:
“Record this man as if childless,
a man who will not prosper in his lifetime,
for **none of his offspring will prosper,
none will sit on the throne of David
** or rule anymore in Judah.”

 

[joe370]

How could Bilaam’s donkey talk (Numbers 22:28)?

I have a meeting now. Have a great day.

Good point, and of course anything is possible with God. However, I just can’t see a mere reptile being the downfall of the entire human race. That’s just me though…

You have a great day too brother!

 

[MartinJordan]

Good point, and of course anything is possible with God. However, I just can’t see a mere reptile being the downfall of the entire human race. That’s just me though…

The donkey speaking was a miracle. The serpent speaking was not a miracle or was it?

Just asking.

MJ

 

[504Katrin]

OK. I am absolutely sure there are Jews today that can trace their lineage all the way back to King David through someone other than Jehoiachin aka Coniah? With that said, if the future Messiah/King descending from another line other than Coniah, would in fact be a legitimate descendent to sit on the Throne of David, then what was the whole point…the relevance of God saying the following? I am trying to understand things from your perspective!

Why will he and his children be hurled out,
cast into a land they do not know?
29 O land, land, land,
hear the word of the Lord!
30 This is what the Lord says:
“Record this man as if childless,
a man who will not prosper in his lifetime,
for **none of his offspring will prosper,
none will sit on the throne of David
** or rule anymore in Judah.”

What’s your point, Joe?!

This passage above comes from Jeremiah I suppose. And it’s true. This is where exile started out, and noone will rule anymore in Judah until the Messiah comes. Which isn’t a problem as the land never really was a kingdom of kings but a kingdom of Priests and Prophets. So it’s all good.

 

[Augustine3]

The children of Eve, i.e. mankind, will hate snakes and kill them when they find them.

There is no mention of Satan.

It’s the simple meaning of the verse.

If the lineage is always traced through men, shouldn’t the declaration be made through Adam’s seed rather than Eve’s?

 

[patrick457]

From what I’ve read the Jews expect the Messiah to be a political and military leader who will free the Jews and inaugurate sovereignty over the rest of the nations. It just seems to me even if the Messiah does conqueror by political and military might won’t the Jews stuff it up once again as they did many times over by their “turning away from God”?

Please excuse me if I sound harsh…

I’m not sure if you’re talking about contemporary Jews or Second Temple period Jews, but I should just point out that there was no single, monolithic ‘messianic expectation’ per se during the time of Jesus - contrary to what popular culture implies.