P
Partinobodycula
Guest
ChainBreaker, I’m curious as to why you would suddenly abandon our discussion. Especially after I conceded that you may have found a legitimate argument as to why God and the Unmoved/Mover must be one and the same. The whole point of this thread is to find just such an argument, so it seems a bit odd that you would disengage right at the point when it appears that you may have found it.
I can think of any number of reasons why you may have done so, and it’s certainly your right to disengage. But I’m simply curious as to why.
Perhaps it would help if I expounded upon my concerns with your argument. This is the argument to which I’m referring:
The second way to interpret this argument is that God created both the beginning and the end at the same time. Along with every point in-between. Creation doesn’t simply entail creating matter with an end purpose, but also entails the creation of the ending itself. It’s only from our human perspective that the beginning precedes the ending. But to God, creation actually entailed the creation of them both. Therefore the act of creating matter, and the act of setting matter in motion, are one and the same, because the second act is included within the first.
I’m not sure which of these two arguments you intended to put forward, or perhaps something else entirely, but it would be nice to know.
I can think of any number of reasons why you may have done so, and it’s certainly your right to disengage. But I’m simply curious as to why.
Perhaps it would help if I expounded upon my concerns with your argument. This is the argument to which I’m referring:
There appear to be two distinct ways in which to interpret this argument. The first is to argue that God created matter, and that matter is imbued at its creation with an end purpose as part of its nature. Therefore matter, must from its inception be in motion toward that end purpose. The end doesn’t actually exist at the point of creation, but it is none-the-less ingrained within the matter itself. God created matter with a purpose, and so it must of necessity be in motion toward that purpose. God didn’t create matter and then set it in motion. He created matter with motion as a necessary part of its existence.
The second way to interpret this argument is that God created both the beginning and the end at the same time. Along with every point in-between. Creation doesn’t simply entail creating matter with an end purpose, but also entails the creation of the ending itself. It’s only from our human perspective that the beginning precedes the ending. But to God, creation actually entailed the creation of them both. Therefore the act of creating matter, and the act of setting matter in motion, are one and the same, because the second act is included within the first.
I’m not sure which of these two arguments you intended to put forward, or perhaps something else entirely, but it would be nice to know.
Humans are more like God than any purely material thing. God’s love is universal, and the universal is consisted of the particular (you and me) And because God creates our souls individually, St. Thomas is consistent with the truth that God loves us individually. You must be humble, if I don’t understand or have a good background in metaphysics I will expect to make a lot of mistakes. And personally I still have much to learn. I admire you for your efforts and you make some good points. And I apologize for others if they in some way seem uncharitable. We are human and imperfect, but we are trying.
