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Techno2000
Guest
It is a trap,Satan will wait until you get to the end of that wide road to take your soul.
It appears that at least some people think that “hell is] a trap.”
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Tom_Baum
Guest
And than again maybe the words that Jesus said, “… and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against It”, are true and the “mission” of the Church will come to Fruition.
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Techno2000
Guest
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Yes it will come to Fruition.
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tonyrey
Guest
In that case God is unjust because we are condemned for ignorance…
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Techno2000
Guest
If much is given, much is expected… if little is given, little expected.In that case God is unjust because we are condemned for ignorance…
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tonyrey
Guest
That is true. Even ignorance is culpable when it is due to indolence or intransigence.
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Tom_Baum
Guest
Some seem to think that satan’s “power” is equal to or greater than God’s, I sure don’t.
And I do believe that the “mission” of Jesus’s Church, with Its many branches, which is, “…the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against It”, will come to Fruition.,
Could be that there is something about God that makes God not even close to being anything like the “blood-sucker” than some of us humans seem to think God to be and that some of us humans most definitely seem to be.
And I do believe that the “mission” of Jesus’s Church, with Its many branches, which is, “…the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against It”, will come to Fruition.,
Could be that there is something about God that makes God not even close to being anything like the “blood-sucker” than some of us humans seem to think God to be and that some of us humans most definitely seem to be.
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tonyrey
Guest
God’s power is far greater than Satan’s or anyone else’s but He does not impose His Will on us. That would defeat the purpose of giving us free will and behaving like an autocrat!
Divine knowledge, power, goodness, mercy and justice are all interdependent and subsumed under Love. He treats us as His children and doesn’t reject us even if we reject Him. He certainly doesn’t condemn anyone as beyond redemption. How could He when His Son died for all of us? It depends entirely on us whether we are in hell. We are not doomed unwittingly or against our will. It is a neat and tidy solution to believe everyone ultimately goes to heaven and every trace of evil disappears utterly because the scars will never be effaced:
Dostoievsky - *The Brother s Karamazov
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Moral evil is an eternal feature of reality. It may disappear but it will never be forgotten. It is so horrific there is no guarantee Satan and those who have committed or permitted atrocities will ever repent. Let us hope and pray they will:
Romans 8:38-9
Except ourselves…
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Aloysium
Guest
Which is why “. . . there is more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons . . .” (Luke 15:7)
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tonyrey
Guest
Indeed. It isn’t God who is to blame if we reject Him. We shouldn’t be afraid of our Father, Redeemer and Advocate - or even Satan and Hell - but ourselves. And if we do our best to love others not even ourselves!
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tonyrey
Guest
Correction:
That would amount to behaving like an autocrat and defeat the purpose of giving us free will!
(Otherwise it means "That would defeat the purpose of… behaving like an autocrat!
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Tom_Baum
Guest
You wrote, “because the scars will never be effaced”
How do you “know” this?
Could be that God’s “Power” is even capable of doing things that we find impossible, God even told us this thru God-Incarnate, didn’t He, when He said, “…with God ALL things are possible”?
You say that God “does not impose His Will on us” and I agree with you on this, however, that doesn’t mean that God does NOT have a way to have His Will come to Fruition without God imposing it on anyone, just means that God might be able to do something that we, at the moment, have no idea how God can do it.
I have said it before and I say it again, just because we can NOT “conceive” of how God could possibly do something that we can’t figure out, doesn’t mean that God can’t do it.
CASE IN POINT: God somehow getting someone to “change” without “forcing” that change on them.
Just my opinion, but I think that the more that anyone thinks that they have God “figured out” the less that they “know” about God.
You wrote, “Moral evil is an eternal feature of reality. It may disappear but it will never be forgotten.”
How do you know this to be a “fact”?
As far as, “Moral evil is an eternal feature of reality.”.
What do you mean by “eternal”?
As far as a, “feature of reality”, are you speaking of present day reality?
Could be that the “reality” of the “new heavens and the new earth” is “different”.
And as far as “it (moral evil) will never be forgotten”, who knows, maybe it will be.
Isn’t there something said about God concerning God not only forgiving us but forgetting our “transgressions”?
Could be that in the “new heavens and the new earth” that this “Godly attribute” of forgetting will extend to us and cover both our transgressions and all other’s transgressions.
Maybe this will be “our forgetting” rather than us forgetting our loved ones that go to a place beyond horror for ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever as some seem to think.
Us forgetting “our loved ones” does not seem very Godly to me and getting joy, even indirectly, from anyone, not just any of our known loved ones, in a place beyond horror seem quite despicable to me.
The version of Romans 8: 38-39 that I looked up was, “For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor present things, nor future things, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
This version did NOT contain the words, “Except ourselves”.
Who knows, maybe God really can convince without imposing, probably won’t be the only thing that surprises some of us about God.
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rinnie
Guest
To begin with unbelievers don’t even believe in God so they can care less. So it is hard to have a discussion with them in the first place.Sometimes we hear unbelievers say they cannot respect the idea of a God who would prepare for us a place of everlasting suffering. Such a God is petty and vindictive. How would you answer this critique of the Christian hell?
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Tom_Baum
Guest
It may be “hard to have a discussion with them in the first place” but should anyone only discuss things with those that s/he is in complete agreement with?
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tonyrey
Guest
It should be obvious that I don’t claim to know anything about what happens after death and anyone who does is being presumptuous. I agree with Ivan’s** opinion** that we shall remember what has happened in this world, particularly the suffering caused by atrocities.
He did not mean things that are nonsensical like transforming us into a different person against our will.
I mean what Jesus meant: “everlasting”. I don’t believe He would mislead us on such a vital subject.
It seems inconsistent with the words of Jesus:
“any other creature” implies we are not included in the list. Otherwise we would be incapable of going to hell and He wouldn’t have divided us into the sheep and goats.
Jesus wouldn’t have warned us about the danger of hell if everyone can be convinced.
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