Again, I am approaching it as Paul did. I go from the premise of where you were apart from faith, and where you now are. In Ephesians, Paul addresses his audience (who are believers) in the same way. That wasn’t meant to be an insult. That is our doctrine of justification. Also, none of what I said has anything to do with Perseverance of the Saints.
I don’t think this is a very accurate representation of Total Depravity, or at least, not it’s relationship to salvation. Anyway, the difference between this doctrine and what was handed down to us from the Apostles is that mankind was created with the ability and desire to seek God, and that the Fall did not remove this condition. The difference is that we are unable to connect with Him without grace.
This statement is a drastic departure from what we received from the Apostles, who taught that people will be judged according to their deeds, righteous or unrighteous.
Yes, a concept taken out of the context in which it was written. All of the TULIP, along with most of Calvanistic thought is cobbled together from various scriptures removed from their context.
Most, if not all, Calvanists think that Catholics believe they can work their way to heaven. They confuse the concept of “merit” with the idea that we, of ourselves, can earn grace.
Good day
Here is a pretty good article on the subject I posted above…
Actually, it is quite accurate, and even the article posted by Jimmy Akin who frequently misrepresents Calvinism, cited it as such and says this is a Catholic belief.
No it isn’t. Our acts don’t please God. They believed Isaiah, and again, according to Paul, our acts do not justify. It is by faith that we are justified. Our acts are only pleasing when we receive God’s grace through faith in Christ. Remember, this conversation is about the doctrine of justification, not sanctification.
No, it is quite in context given where it was quoted from, unless you believe that Paul used it incorrectly.
Then Catholicism, as the Reformers asserted, has departed from the apostolic faith. Grace in the context of justification is described as a gift, which by definition is something that is not earned.
I was hoping you might be willing to communicate some definitions for us, because I’m not seeing how this…
Is a response to this…
Because it sure looks like you just responded to a claim of confusing the concept of merit with earning grace by accusing Catholicism of earning grace.
What I meant is that, Total Depravity seems to leave mankind without any ability or desire to seek after God. While we will all agree that man cannot do anything to save himself, and can only respond to God’s grace, there is a major difference in our concepts of human nature. The Apostles taught that the basic “good” in which God created man is wounded by original sin but not destroyed. This is why human beings still seek after God. His grace draws every human being to Himself. Not all respond to that grace sufficiently to find salvation.
Well, I will agree to disagree with you. The Apostles did not separate justification from sanctification. This concept did not emerge until the two were separated by the Reformers. It is a novel theology.
According to Paul “works of the law” don’t justify. We can’t earn grace. But I am sure you are fully aware of many other passages where Paul does say our works justify.
No, I was referring to the context of the One Faith from which the New Testament was written. It was written by, for, and about Catholics, and is best understood in the context of the Catholic faith.
How is that?
Or maybe you just misread what I wrote?
I am interested in hearing this also. I suspect that Calvanists are actually closer to the Catholic concept than most realize.
I did earlier. You must not be reading. Which definition would you like since you seem to be confused?
True this. Consider the following questions: