The future of Child Birth

[Pup7]

They did a study that I can’t find where a foreign-language song was played to a child in uetero. Nothing they’d come across on a daily basis. When they were 3, 6, and 12 they were given 5 songs to listen to. Something like 80% said that the song they listened to in utero (and hadn’t since besides the testing) was their favorite.

Not to hijack but I know what I’m looking for this weekend. That is absolutely fascinating.

Back to the thread.

 

[edwest211]

Transhumanism is a poorly understood concept. None of this is on the horizon. However, unscrupulous individuals with the money and access to properly equipped research facilities will attempt it. Many unborn babies will die in the process. But treating man as a machine will result in disaster based on a number of scenarios that I’ve seen. Some men want to control other men. That’s been true throughout history. Other men have performed experiments on uninformed or partially informed individuals. In the past, war criminals have gone free due to their “intelligence value.” It won’t matter who gets killed when man decides there is no judgment. Some will believe that the benefits they may achieve will never be taken from them or used for bad ends. That is false.

Anything that can/could/might be done will be done. Selective breeding will become law for the peasants. Those outside of certain jurisdictions will have contraception and abortion forced on them, like China.

 

[QContinuum]

Looks like another come-uppance is sadly on the horizon.

I hope you’re right, Pup. For the sake of humanity.

I initially dismissed ectogenesis when I first read about it three or four years ago, as far too biochemically complex to be feasible. Now, with the advances in quatum computing, artificial intelligence, and genetics, I’m less sanguine.

Don’t think it’ll happen in 20 years. But 50?

I wouldn’t bet against it.

 

[QContinuum]

So could we do this with a dog or a cat or a sheep? Probably. But humans are different.

Yeah, I know. I never said the product would be fundamentally sane.

Now, a race of genetically enhanced, sociopathic individuals? That, I could see.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Xanthippe_Voorhees:

So could we do this with a dog or a cat or a sheep? Probably. But humans are different.

Yeah, I know. I never said the product would be fundamentally sane.

Now, a race of genetically enhanced, sociopathic individuals? That, I could see.

There’s more to mental illness and brain development than just sociopathy. Likely, at best, even if they had bodies that supported life, it’d be like a major case of FAS and RAD on steroids plus a whole host of other issues including likely blindness and deafness.

Have you studied child development (post-womb or out of it) at all? Do you understand the complex systems that must be perfect even in traditional childbirth? Not enough of one hormone or too much of another and life ceases to exist. Science knows about Thalidomide and what it does but understanding the full pathology of what it does to children in utero is not easily understood. Same with Zika. Why something that causes a minor cold in adults causes such catastrophic consequences in babies is not fully understood. We can say X,Y and Z are interrupted, but we still can’t say why some children are crippled and others are fine.

 

[Pup7]

Pup7:

Looks like another come-uppance is sadly on the horizon.

I hope you’re right, Pup. For the sake of humanity.

I initially dismissed ectogenesis when I first read about it three or four years ago, as far too biochemically complex to be feasible. Now, with the advances in quatum computing, artificial intelligence, and genetics, I’m less sanguine.

Don’t think it’ll happen in 20 years. But 50?

I wouldn’t bet against it.

I don’t dismiss they’ll do it. I just forsee another Dolly the sheep, where it doesn’t go as they think and the concept will just slowly dissipate into the great ether, like cloning did.

 

[QContinuum]

Have you studied child development (post-womb or out of it) at all? Do you understand the complex systems that must be perfect even in traditional childbirth? Not enough of one hormone or too much of another and life ceases to exist.

Yes. One upon a lifetime, I fancied being a P.A. or possibly M.D. (Before I went the engineering route.) I learned quite a lot from those classes.

That training is why I initially dismissed ectogenesis as flatly impossible. Like you, I based that assumption on the incredibly delicate hormonal and biochemical relationship between mother and baby.

Now, however, my current field has exposed me to the next generation of computing and networking. And I’m trying to tell you (warn?), that medicine and computer science are quickly approaching the ability to be able to calculate and replicate, through ever more powerful simulations, the complexity of the uterine environment.

Quantum computing will crack that proverbial nut. Then, engineers will use that data to build a mechanical, artificial model. It won’t be perfect, and there will be a lot of experimentation. But that won’t stop them, only spur them on to improve it in version 2.0, 2.1, and so forth.

 

[feed_me]

Simple labor will be like in and out burger, go in have baby, come back out and go to work.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Xanthippe_Voorhees:

Have you studied child development (post-womb or out of it) at all? Do you understand the complex systems that must be perfect even in traditional childbirth? Not enough of one hormone or too much of another and life ceases to exist.

Yes. One upon a lifetime, I fancied being a P.A. or possibly M.D. (Before I went the engineering route.) I learned quite a lot from those classes.

That training is why I initially dismissed ectogenesis as flatly impossible. Like you, I based that assumption on the incredibly delicate hormonal and biochemical relationship between mother and baby.

Now, however, my current field has exposed me to the next generation of computing and networking. And I’m trying to tell you (warn?), that medicine and computer science are quickly approaching the ability to be able to calculate and replicate, through ever more powerful simulations, the complexity of the uterine environment.

Quatum computing will crack that proverbial nut. Then, engineers will use that data to build a mechanical, artificial model. It won’t be perfect, and there will be a lot of experimentation. But that won’t stop them, only spur them on to improve it in version 2.0, 2.1, and so forth.

But they can’t even get a formula (child or adult) to accurately mimic breastmilk/oral nutrition. Similar, yes, but not the same and not as good.

The uterine environment is much more than just the sum of chemicals. For instance, what about the “stuff” that the placenta puts back into the mother’s body? Where does it go? How does the machine comprehend the cravings coming from the placenta and how do you send those things, in safe doses, back to the child? The placenta is not a one-way organ, and it’s an organ of it’s own right.

Science is not near that point. Computer AI "thinking’ may be advanced, but it’s still all programming.

 

[feed_me]

You dont need too, technology is getting to a point that you can use human cells to grow whatever you want and tech can take over and monitor it, the womb will still work like it should just the computer will be able to analize exerything accordiny and adjust. Think the matrix

 

[QContinuum]

I don’t dismiss they’ll do it. I just forsee another Dolly the sheep, where it doesn’t go as they think and the concept will just slowly dissipate into the great ether, like cloning did.

Cloning didn’t dissipate though. Right now, you can pay a lot of money and have your favorite dog cloned. My co-worker has talked about doing it for his husky.

Other applications for cloning are being developed.

Loading…

www.news-medical.net

 

[Pup7]

Noted. I actually have no issue with it being used for organ transplantation as that is pretty much the only viable solution to an ongoing problem, and was among the first things talked about when it was being developed.

I still say it’s a Dolly problem. This isn’t genetic cloning and transplanting into a uterus. This is artificially growing a person outside a very finely tuned environment that we, in reality, don’t even fully understand.

I don’t see this succeeding or going mainstream.

 

[QContinuum]

The uterine environment is much more than just the sum of chemicals

Yes, but the communication is still chemical in nature. The many variables you mention are exactly what quantum computing will enable scientists to decipher. Just as the Human Genome required the processing power only modern computing could produce, so exogenesis will be accomplished at the intersection of advancing technologies in genetics, cloning, and computer science.

 

[Pup7]

Yes, but the communication is still chemical in nature

That’s the kick.

We don’t know that.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

You dont need too, technology is getting to a point that you can use human cells to grow whatever you want and tech can take over and monitor it, the womb will still work like it should just the computer will be able to analize exerything accordiny and adjust. Think the matrix

but again, the placenta is a 2 way communication device between the mother and child down to the cellular level. Blood analysis can find cells from every child who was conceved and had a placenta. We don’t understand the function and dysfunction of the placenta fully. 8% of mothers have gestational diabetes which is a dysfunction of the placenta. You’re not just growing tissues and you’re not just “feeding” and sustaining life. You’re also dealing with an organ that we know frighteningly little about. Come to mention it, we know disgustingly little about the uterus and it’s dysfunctions, too.

 

[QContinuum]

I still say it’s a Dolly problem. This isn’t genetic cloning and transplanting into a uterus. This is artificially growing a person outside a very finely tuned environment that we, in reality, don’t even fully understand.

I don’t see this succeeding or going mainstream.

Not saying it’s a good thing. I abhor the thought of the consequences down the road. I do see it happening in 50 years though.

 

[QContinuum]

The operative word here for the geeks is: yet.

 

[Pup7]

The operative word here for the geeks is: yet.

Oh I totally agree.

 

[QContinuum]

We don’t understand the function and dysfunction of the placenta fully.

I think what feed is saying is scientists might not have to fully understand it, in order to replicate it. Cloning comes into this, as does 3-D printing technology.

Copy & paste.

 

[Pup7]

People are already “genetically engineered”.

Look at “My Sister’s Keeper”. That’s not science fiction; that happens.