The future of Eastern Catholicism in the US?

[Kielbasi]

The largest number of Greek Catholics in America came across the Atlantic to work in mining and manufacturing in the rust belt.

Even before so many of those facilities closed, the offspring of the original immigrants intermarried with Latin Rite Catholics and many of these 2nd and subsequent generations took up careers in other fields, often times taking them far away from the original Eastern Catholic communities in the South, West, and elsewhere.

Eastern Rite Catholics are a pretty small minority here in the United States.

The upward mobility, geographic mobility, as well as intermarriage and the dilution of ethnic identity are all problems that the Eastern Rite folks have to face if they are going to maintain their numbers.

How can the Eastern rite churches appeal to thoroughly westernized Americans enough to thrive, particular in an age where we just aren’t receiving many Catholic immigrants from those parts of Europe and the Middle East?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Here’s a recent thread from about a month ago discussing the same topic:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=548701

 

[ciero]

The largest number of Greek Catholics in America came across the Atlantic to work in mining and manufacturing in the rust belt.

Even before so many of those facilities closed, the offspring of the original immigrants intermarried with Latin Rite Catholics and many of these 2nd and subsequent generations took up careers in other fields, often times taking them far away from the original Eastern Catholic communities in the South, West, and elsewhere.

Eastern Rite Catholics are a pretty small minority here in the United States.

The upward mobility, geographic mobility, as well as intermarriage and the dilution of ethnic identity are all problems that the Eastern Rite folks have to face if they are going to maintain their numbers.

How can the Eastern rite churches appeal to thoroughly westernized Americans enough to thrive, particular in an age where we just aren’t receiving many Catholic immigrants from those parts of Europe and the Middle East?

As so many of our bishops have stated over the years…the vocation of the Eastern Churches is to disappear…I guess we are doing a good job.

 

[smad0142]

Need to evangelize. Plain and simple. Stop treating the Church like an ethnic club, and more like God-instituted path to salvation that it is.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Need to evangelize. Plain and simple. Stop treating the Church like an ethnic club, and more like God-instituted path to salvation that it is.

The problem is a paradox. Do you “un-ethnicize” a parish at the risk of alienating the current parishioners and hoping more parishioners come in the future? Or do you hope for people of different ethnicity to first come into the parish and wait for a critical mass wherein the non-ethnic members outnumber the ethnic members therefore shedding the ethnicity of the parish becomes a necessity?

 

[Vico]

Pope Bennedict XVI, Oct 2010, regarding the CCEO (at the 20th anniversary of the Eastern Canon Law):

As has been many times repeated, the full union of the Eastern Catholic Churches with the Church of Rome that is already realized must not lead to a diminution of the consciousness of the unique authenticity and originality of those Churches. For this reason it is the task of all the Eastern Catholic Churches to conserve the common disciplinary patrimony and nourish their own traditions, which is a treasure for the whole Church.

zenit.org/article-30600?l=english

Also:

catholicnewsagency.com/ne…in-traditions/

 

[smad0142]

The paradox is the killer Constantine.

And do you think that the ethnic roots and the spiritual patrimony are the same?

 

[Hesychios]

… do you think that the ethnic roots and the spiritual patrimony are the same?

I don’t.

 

[Vico]

Since people have smaller families now, there are likely to be less total eastern Catholics than before. Also since the eastern Catholic Churches make up only about 1.5% of the total Catholics it is only likely to have an eastern Catholic parish per 67 Latin Catholic parishes. Then divide that up by US statistics:

Chaldean 25.8%
Byzantine 17.3%
Syro-Malabar 15.5%
Maronite 13.6%
Ukrainian 11.1%
Armenian 6.6%
Melkite 4.9%
Syrian 2.5%
Syro-Malankara 1.8%
Romanian 1.1%

 

[dvdjs]

As so many of our bishops have stated over the years…the vocation of the Eastern Churches is to disappear…

Really? How many is “so” many?

 

[ConstantineTG]

The paradox is the killer Constantine.

And do you think that the ethnic roots and the spiritual patrimony are the same?

I agree with Hesychios, its not. But I think most people don’t see the difference. While the ethnicity gives the character of the spirituality, its not the totality of the faith. I for example enjoy sharing in the culture of the Ukrainians. But at some point, it starts to overwhelm me that I feel I don’t belong because I’m an odd man out because of my ethnicity.

Curious today I drove by one of the other parishes in our Eparchy, not the one I go to, and I saw a huge sign that says, “ALL PEOPLE WELCOME”. Vancouver is one of the most culturally diverse metropolitan areas in North America. Many churches here, especially the Protestants, depend on having an open door to all ethnicities to build up their congregation. I will speak to their priest and ask him what his goals are with the sign. Maybe I can help him get things moving. Maybe this is a good sign, both literally and figuratively.

 

[Little_Boy_Lost]

As dumb as it is, I cherished the little metal blue, red and white signs the Episcopal Church has posted by their parishes that tell you which way the parish is located from a main route and that N ] parish is an episcopal parish and they welcome you.

If I had the money, I would have a sign or two like that made up for my parish. Maybe if one of the jurisdictions did it, the others would follow suit. It would also be sort of a cool thing to spot a uniform set of signs that tell you where a Ruthenian Catholic or Melkite Catholic Church are.

 

[smad0142]

I love the idea of a big sign saying ALL PEOPLE WELCOME. But then what protocol, if any, is put in place to let these people know the prereqs for reception of the Eucharist in the Catholic Church? And how is it done so as not to be offensive?

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

I love the idea of a big sign saying ALL PEOPLE WELCOME. But then what protocol, if any, is put in place to let these people know the prereqs for reception of the Eucharist in the Catholic Church? And how is it done so as not to be offensive?

A priest that I know at a Ruthenian parish in Detroit, MI, used to come out of the sanctuary immediately before Communion and make an announcement that Communion was only meant for Catholics in good standing. I believe everyone else was invited up to receive a blessing. I wish I could remember how he worded the announcement because it was very well done and unoffensive.

 

[Seamus_L]

There is this perception among a sizeable number of people in North America, that the Eastern Rite churches are ETHNIC, but I don’t believe that that is necessarily a bad thing. If you really think about it, if serious efforts were ever made to de-ethnicise Eastern Churches, you’d lose alot more parishoners than you could hope to bring in.But because a church is very ethnic, there is no reason to assume it is unwelcoming toward visitors. Converts on Eastern forums often complain about feeling unwelcome in certain ethnic parishes, particularly when they are of a different nationality then that of the cradle parishoners. Personally I’m a little suspicious of such claims for the reason that I’ve looked through anniversary books, bulletins, etc from Greek Orthodox Churches (they seem to get some of the worst accusations of being an exclusive ethnic club) and have seen more than a few Irish, Italian, Polish, German, etc surnames. And you know if the Greek women are marrying non-Greeks, the men are doing it too. In fact I believe a Greek Orthodox acquaintence told me that despite the heavy Greek flavor of his parish, only about 80 pct of the parishoners are Greek. That leads me to believe that quite often those who feel unwelcome feel that way because of unrealistic expectations.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Dear Seamus,

:clapping:

Alex

 

[ConstantineTG]

There is this perception among a sizeable number of people in North America, that the Eastern Rite churches are ETHNIC, but I don’t believe that that is necessarily a bad thing. If you really think about it, if serious efforts were ever made to de-ethnicise Eastern Churches, you’d lose alot more parishoners than you could hope to bring in.But because a church is very ethnic, there is no reason to assume it is unwelcoming toward visitors. Converts on Eastern forums often complain about feeling unwelcome in certain ethnic parishes, particularly when they are of a different nationality then that of the cradle parishoners. Personally I’m a little suspicious of such claims for the reason that I’ve looked through anniversary books, bulletins, etc from Greek Orthodox Churches (they seem to get some of the worst accusations of being an exclusive ethnic club) and have seen more than a few Irish, Italian, Polish, German, etc surnames. And you know if the Greek women are marrying non-Greeks, the men are doing it too. In fact I believe a Greek Orthodox acquaintence told me that despite the heavy Greek flavor of his parish, only about 80 pct of the parishoners are Greek. That leads me to believe that quite often those who feel unwelcome feel that way because of unrealistic expectations.

I disagree. Lose a lot more? Most of us hardly have any regular parishioners to begin with. Sure, we fill in the parish during Christmas and Pascha, but the parish is 3/4s empty most Sundays of the year.

The point of de-emphasizing ethnicity is to get more people into the parishes. And we want to do that not because we “foreign” parishioners want more diversity among parishioners, its just that we want more people in the parish to have a more vibrant community and at the same time ensure the survival of the Eastern Churches in North America.

 

[malphono]

There is this perception among a sizeable number of people in North America, that the Eastern Rite churches are ETHNIC, but I don’t believe that that is necessarily a bad thing. If you really think about it, if serious efforts were ever made to de-ethnicise Eastern Churches, you’d lose alot more parishoners than you could hope to bring in.But because a church is very ethnic, there is no reason to assume it is unwelcoming toward visitors. Converts on Eastern forums often complain about feeling unwelcome in certain ethnic parishes, particularly when they are of a different nationality then that of the cradle parishoners. Personally I’m a little suspicious of such claims for the reason that I’ve looked through anniversary books, bulletins, etc from Greek Orthodox Churches (they seem to get some of the worst accusations of being an exclusive ethnic club) and have seen more than a few Irish, Italian, Polish, German, etc surnames. And you know if the Greek women are marrying non-Greeks, the men are doing it too. In fact I believe a Greek Orthodox acquaintence told me that despite the heavy Greek flavor of his parish, only about 80 pct of the parishoners are Greek. That leads me to believe that quite often those who feel unwelcome feel that way because of unrealistic expectations.

Very interesting observation, and one that I actually agree with. (It was bound to happen sooner or later. )

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

While I personally have no problem with parishes that have an “ethnic flavor” (my own parish is one such), what I do have a problem with is parishes whose primary focus seems to be ethnicity. I’ve heard a number of stories of people who were born into the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church here in America, despite the fact that they were not ethnically Ukrainian. A couple of times they tried to attend Ukrainian Greek Catholic parishes when they were away from their home parishes. When they were asked what part of Ukraine their families were from, and responded that they had no Ukrainian ethnic background at all, they were asked what they were doing at the parish and given the cold shoulder. I hear tell of certain Melkite parishes here in the U.S. that have a similar problem, and I know of a Romanian Orthodox parish that also has a similar problem.

 

[malphono]

While I personally have no problem with parishes that have an “ethnic flavor” (my own parish is one such), what I do have a problem with is parishes whose primary focus seems to be ethnicity. I’ve heard a number of stories of people who were born into the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church here in America, despite the fact that they were not ethnically Ukrainian. A couple of times they tried to attend Ukrainian Greek Catholic parishes when they were away from their home parishes. When they were asked what part of Ukraine their families were from, and responded that they had no Ukrainian ethnic background at all, they were asked what they were doing at the parish and given the cold shoulder. I hear tell of certain Melkite parishes here in the U.S. that have a similar problem, and I know of a Romanian Orthodox parish that also has a similar problem.

I’ve not personally seen it quite that dramatic, but I won’t dispute that it exists. At the same time, though, I can understand the trepidation on the part of many of the parishioners: they (and/or their forbearers) worked hard and sacrificed much to have and maintain their churches, and are not thrilled at the prospect of being overrun by “outsiders” who often show-up looking for (a) a “refuge” from something (which is usually the Novus Ordo, but I digress) and/or (b) to remold the parish to their own image of what they think it should be.