The "Gay Gene": Does it Matter?

[pathia]

I don’t know if anybody has posted that there is a Catholic Apostolate that helps people born with the tendency. It is called COURAGE and can be found easily by googling
"Courage - The Apostolate

Courage self-admittedly offers nothing for me, however it is useful for others.

 

[steve_n_theresa]

If he loves me why would he forbid me from marrying who I love? That is cruelty not love. Any number of other churches would marry me, even the most conservative states in the US would marry me, even those with the biblical definition of marriage in their constitution. Only the catholic church says no.

We are supposed to love God above every thing and everyone.

The point is if you love God, why would you choose anything of this world over God, except by a weakness for those things or persons.
We can’t judge God by human standards, (besides the point we can’t judge God.)
We are the only creature that we know of who willingly rise above the drive of our animal within. We can train animals to be our friends but if they are placed back in the wild they revert back to their animal natures.

Again we are supposed to love God, even if there is a gene that drives us in a direction that could cause us harm.

If there is a gene, why would God allow it?

I don’t know.

I do know that I didn’t always love what my parents did to me. Nor did I always understand it. It took being a parent for me to understand that many times the reasons they did things were beyond my childish understanding. It was never driven home so profoundly when my son began to spout the same things I had spouted as a rebellious child/teen. And I smiled as I said to him “Wait till you are parent…” And when he became a parent and was trying to discipline his sons , I said “Remember when I said …” .

There are things which we will not know until we are in Heaven.

You are an heir to Heaven. The mere fact you were created is living proof.

Perhaps it takes us behaving as heirs of God’s Heaven while on Earth, reaching for our birthright, as the adult children of God. Perhaps behaving in purity, in a godly manner, Loving God First, is what it takes to garner understandings of 'why" we have tendencies , crosses.

If all of us were made identical, how could we know the value of our individuality, except by our individual differences???

Theresa

 

[drpmjhess]

Courage self-admittedly offers nothing for me, however it is useful for others.

I have friends in a group called “Dignity”; they have found that helpful.

 

[Joe_5859]

I have friends in a group called “Dignity”; they have found that helpful.

Except for the fact that they openly oppose Church teaching on sexual morality.

 

[drpmjhess]

Except for the fact that they openly oppose Church teaching on sexual morality.

Perhaps. I’ve never attended a meeting (not being homosexual) so I don’t know what they discuss. But they find the group supportive in the homophobic cultures in which they live.

 

[East_and_West]

Perhaps. I’ve never attended a meeting (not being homosexual) so I don’t know what they discuss. But they find the group supportive in the homophobic cultures in which they live.

Google their website. They most certainly oppose the Catholic position on homosexuality.

 

[drpmjhess]

Google their website. They most certainly oppose the Catholic position on homosexuality.

Will do. I’ll also ask my friends next Sunday what the meetings are like.

 

[drpmjhess]

The way I see it, it really doesn’t matter. At most, the existence of a “gay gene” might reduce an individual’s culpability for sinful behavior, but it wouldn’t make it right. It is the same for those with SSA (regardless of whether or not it is genetic). They have a great cross to bear. But, that doesn’t make it impossible. With God, all things are possible.

Joe, I don’t know what geneticists are saying about this now, but theologically it makes little sense to say that God would create someone with a predisposition toward homosexuality, and then condemn acting on that predisposition. I don’t see how God can be involved.

 

[Joe_Williams]

I have read the responses and see that we are all indeed in agreement. The truth of the matter is that all men were born with concupiscence (tendency toward sin). It is in our nature after original sin came into existence. However, God has made it quite clear: we are to come to him and he will comfort us and give us the graces necessary to overcome it. Those who openly choose to engage in sin are committing mortal sin. It is a choice. Genetic predisposition is simply an excuse for the behavior. Besides, after all my years in scientific research (physics and nuclear medicine), I have come across NO hard facts or research that prove the existence of such a gene. It is a choice. It is a cross to bear for some. It is then absolutely necessary to place these difficulties at the foot of the cross and let God handle them. He is better suited anyway. Keep the faith. Thanks for allowing me to respond.
Take care,
Joe

 

[drpmjhess]

I have come across NO hard facts or research that prove the existence of such a gene. It is a choice. It is a cross to bear for some. It is then absolutely necessary to place these difficulties at the foot of the cross and let God handle them. He is better suited anyway. Keep the faith. Thanks for allowing me to respond.Take care,Joe

Well, I wouldn’t say it’s a choice, even if there is no evidence for genetic involvement. My orientation was certainly not an adolescent choice for me, and my gay friends affirm that this was their experience as well.

 

[Joe_Williams]

Well, I wouldn’t say it’s a choice, even if there is no evidence for genetic involvement. My orientation was certainly not an adolescent choice for me, and my gay friends affirm that this was their experience as well.

Thank you for the response. Genetic predisposition is a farce. However, it is well documented that certain individuals are drawn to the same-sex. The triggers of this thought pattern are still being researched and a formal understanding is far off. The engagement, however, of the individual in the homosexual act is a choice. When one is psychologically mature enough to know about his or her sexual orientation, he or she is also mature enough to realize that it is a sin against nature regardless of what one feels. Like I said before, it is a cross for some to bear. It may indeed be a heavy cross but the solution to your salvation is not giving in to the temptation and then justifying it. It is in realizing that you have been given a cross to bear and that Jesus is best suited to help you bear it. My heart and prayers go with you my friend. It is a tough road to traverse. Keep the faith.
Joe

 

[drpmjhess]

It is in realizing that you have been given a cross to bear and that Jesus is best suited to help you bear it. My heart and prayers go with you my friend. It is a tough road to traverse. Keep the faith.Joe

My question is with using the term “given” regarding this “cross.” God doesn’t “give” crosses in the sense of conferring sexual orientations, or choosing some children to have muscular dystrophy and others not to. Bad things happen, genetically or by accident. If God knowingly conferred a homosexual orientation upon some innocent baby and then declared that the baby could never in its life know loving intimacy because of that orientation, that would be a vicious divine act. God doesn’t act that way.

 

[Joe_Williams]

I believe that you may be quite mistaken about “crosses” or suffering. Fr. Paul O’Sullivan published a small pamphlet on suffering. In it he explains quite beautifully that:
“suffering is not simply an evil, for no one suffered more than the Son of God Himself, more than his Blessed Mother or more than the Saints. Every suffering comes from God. Nothing happens to us without his wish or permission. Not even a hair falls from our heads without his consent.”
So how then, you ask, can God allow such things to be put on men (or children)?
“Simply because He is asking us to take a little share in His Passion. What appears to come by chance or from someone else always comes from God because God allows it.”
Please remember my friend that the homosexual tendency is not the sin. It is the cross or the suffering so to speak. Fr. Paul also says:
“If we accept the sufferings He sends us and offer them in union with His sufferings, we receive the greatest rewards. Five minutes’ suffering borne for the love of Jesus, (that is, refraining from your tendencies) is of greater value to us than years and years of pleasure and joy.”
You must also remember that whatever God allows us to suffer, He also gives us the strength to bear it. I am not pretending to know the mind of God, but I do know what His Church and His scriptures tell us. We are to accept our cross, and rely on His mercy, grace, and love to help us bear it. I can’t say why a child may be given a disease or that you were given a specific suffering, but I do know that it is commonplace in our world and our Lord addressed that issue on earth. Remember the story of the blind man in the temple? Jesus was asked if it was the man’s sin or the sin of his parents that made him blind. Jesus said neither and that this man was made blind from birth so that the glory of God would be shown for all to see. It is no different today. We are just blinded by the media hype and too many pseudo-religious philosophers. Please don’t be angry at the idea that you were given a particular cross to bear. Simply accept it as your part in Jesus’ suffering and offer it back to Him. I am sure that you will find comfort in Him. I hope this clarifies my position. Thank you again for your response.
Joe

 

[whatevergirl]

Yes, it’s not illegal in this state to do so, so I have no complaint. I’ve also talked to the ACLU, they won’t take the case because there’s no case to make. It’s legal here, period.

I can make a fuss, but there’s no legal action that I can take place because it is ‘at will’. Unless I was fired on the basis of disability/race/ethnicity/sex. There is nothing against firing someone for being non-straight in most states. They are perfectly able to do so.

You can’t fire someone based on sexual orientation, or identity. Truthfully, I think you have a case. I just wrapped up an online workplace harassment course today at work–and some of these very instances came up. Not your identical situation–but you have a case, I think.

 

[Parysa]

Now to answer your question of what I mean by intimate in a relationship? To me, it means having someone special that you live with to share your most intimate secrets, your everyday joys and aggravations, pains, etc. It means having someone to care for you when you are sick, everything that your relationship with your husband entails. To compare such a thing as the kiss you might share with your girlfriend in a greeting only…well, I think you know that is NOT what I meant.

I have had that in a non-physical relationship outside of marriage. My best friend and I were roommates once and shared everything, very similarly to how my husband and I shared things after I got married. The difference was that my relationship with my friend was not based on a sexual love for her, it was based on a sisterly love.

If he loves me why would he forbid me from marrying who I love? That is cruelty not love. Any number of other churches would marry me, even the most conservative states in the US would marry me, even those with the biblical definition of marriage in their constitution. Only the catholic church says no.

Is it the Catholic Church itself or is it your specific parish or diocese? Have you tried climbing the chain of command to get your records changed?

MdntDrmr;3262165:

blessedtoo;3262123:

back up the claim that homosexuals, as a group, are “beat, hurt, curse and killed” for being homosexual.

Actaully those are probaly about the only two you can mention and sheprard was killed in a drug deal gone bad.

Actually, I’ve had a lot of gay friends. I made the mistake of getting drunk in high school and kissing another girl on a dare and then was accused of being gay by everyone in my school. The only people who would be friends with me after that were the gay kids, and they were the only ones who believed me that I’m straight! So, I’ve seen the way gays are treated. I was cursed and mocked and ridiculed. I was threatened. I had a friend come in and apply for a job at the restaurant where I worked who didn’t get the job b/c of her orientation. I’ve seen my friends beaten up. I’ve never seen anyone killed b/c of it, but gays are definitely persecuted.

no gene, no topic.

Do you have nothing more to contribute?

Yes, it’s not illegal in this state to do so, so I have no complaint. I’ve also talked to the ACLU, they won’t take the case because there’s no case to make. It’s legal here, period.
I can make a fuss, but there’s no legal action that I can take place because it is ‘at will’. Unless I was fired on the basis of disability/race/ethnicity/sex. There is nothing against firing someone for being non-straight in most states. They are perfectly able to do so.

But you were fired on the basis of gender, weren’t you? It doesn’t sound like they fired you b/c of orientation b/c it doesn’t sound like you’re homosexual and, even if you were, that doesn’t show up on a background check, to my knowledge. Of course, if they don’t tell you why they’re firing you, I don’t know that you could do anything about it.
You’re in my prayers. Don’t give up hope yet. Maybe there is something that can be done. Have you tried bringing your medical records in to show that you are physically and legally female and that it wasn’t a choice but a birth defect?

 

[drpmjhess]

sion. Not even a hair falls from our heads without his consent." So how then, you ask, can God allow such things to be put on men (or children)? “Simply because He is asking us to take a little share in His Passion. What appears to come by chance or from someone else always comes from God because God allows it.”

That’s a pretty sadistic theology. I could never call a God “Father” who acted so little like the fathers for which we analogously name God. We’re not talking “a little share in his passion” when we’re speaking of children too young to understand who are given brief lives filled with horrible suffering. It’s deterministic and unworthy of the divine name. I could never worship a God like that.

Rather, God endued the world with freedom, knowing that with freedom comes suffering. God does not will the birth and suffering of a baby with an excruciating and incurable disease. God wills an evolving universe in which diseases and disabilties happen, but that are not willed on particular individuals.

 

[Joe_Williams]

That’s a pretty sadistic theology. I could never call a God “Father” who acted so little like the fathers for which we analogously name God. We’re not talking “a little share in his passion” when we’re speaking of children too young to understand who are given brief lives filled with horrible suffering. It’s deterministic and unworthy of the divine name. I could never worship a God like that.

Rather, God endued the world with freedom, knowing that with freedom comes suffering. God does not will the birth and suffering of a baby with an excruciating and incurable disease. God wills an evolving universe in which diseases and disabilties happen, but that are not willed on particular individuals.

You are forgetting the story of the blind man in the temple. He was made blind from birth so that the glory of God would be seen by all. That pretty much says that God willed that particular person to be blind. Read about Job. He suffered greatly at the hand of Satan because God allowed it to prove that Job would not curse Him. It is fact that EVERYTHING comes from God or is allowed to happen by Him. Be careful not to judge God’s actions by the ways of men. God didn’t just flip the switch and let things run themselves. We are not God nor do we have the capacity to think as He does. Thus, the mystery in His existence. Be careful, my friend. Everything that happens to men happens because God wills it or allows it. Regardless of how you judge the theology, it is a true fact. His scriptures tell us to accept it and offer it back to Him. Why should we presume that we know better? Are we not now thinking as His fallen angel once thought? Modernists believe that God has no capacity to allow bad things to happen; that these bad things happen by chance. My friend, there is no chance in the universe. I have been a physicist for quite a long time and have never seen an instance of “chance.” God creates all things, orders all things, and wills all things. I will be prudent in keeping with my faith. Suffering is reality in life. Accept it without question and ask God for help. Use Jesus’ example: Sweating blood in the garden, Jesus asked that if it were possible that His heavenly Father take this cup from him, please do so, but that his will be done. Jesus was crucified. The Father’s will was done… Thanks be to God.

 

[buffalo]

Epigenetics my friends, epigenetics.

 

[Joe_Williams]

Epigenetics cannot come close to explaining “the gay gene.” Epigenetics is a term used by molecular biologists and psychologists to explain unexplained mutations to cells during development. Like I said earlier, there is no scientific evidence to show that a person’s homosexual tendencies are caused by a genetic mutation. No matter what the argument, it falls short of the truth. We aren’t condemning the fact that someone is attracted to the same sex. Even the Church does not condemn these people. The commission of the homosexual acts is the sin. And the commission of that sin is a choice. There is no justification for the commission of sin, for if there was truly a legitimate reason to transgress Divine Law, there would be no sin which is simply not the case. Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut. Keep the faith. Pray hard.
Joe

 

[buffalo]

Epigenetics cannot come close to explaining “the gay gene.” Epigenetics is a term used by molecular biologists and psychologists to explain unexplained mutations to cells during development. Like I said earlier, there is no scientific evidence to show that a person’s homosexual tendencies are caused by a genetic mutation. No matter what the argument, it falls short of the truth. We aren’t condemning the fact that someone is attracted to the same sex. Even the Church does not condemn these people. The commission of the homosexual acts is the sin. And the commission of that sin is a choice. There is no justification for the commission of sin, for if there was truly a legitimate reason to transgress Divine Law, there would be no sin which is simply not the case. Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut. Keep the faith. Pray hard.
Joe

No - there is evidence that environment and lifestyle can be passed on. The idea is the DNA is the hardware, epigenetics is the sofware. Lifestyle and environement can cause the software to give wrong instructions to the DNA.

The bottom line is that we ourselves may be utlimately responsible for this condition rather than the argument that has been fashionable lately - “God made me this way”.