The God of Islam

[Loginus]

Oh, but ST. Paul met God on the road to Damascus. He spoke to St. Paul. Now tell me, what’s better than that…hmmmm…?

Umm Paul was little more than an evangalist. He claimed to have seen god/Jesus and that made him take up his mission.
As I said though, he never met Jesus while he was alive and only quoted him twice in all his letters.

As for being buddies with the other apostles, Letter to Galatians and 2 Corinthians says different. In Galatians he is basically trying to defend himself from the church saying his teachings on Gentiles not have to be circumcised is wrong. Paul also insults the church leaders. The leaders themselves were the apostles. Paul, in an effort not to look stupid, said that his msg was from God.

His arguement is the same as Protestants, Mormans, JWs etc.
That they know the true meaning or msg and the other are wrong. I mean cmon, do you really believe the rambling hobo claiming Jesus is talking to him telling him to steal furniture?

Besides, if Paul were right, it would negate what Jesus said and did. So if you hate Jesus and what he stood for fine, just dont go around claiming you are a christian

 

[RomanCrusader]

Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, and the light. No one comes to the Father except through me”.

Moslems REJECT Jesus and therefore reject God Himself. In the place of Jesus Moslems worship a pedophilic savage named Mohammed and a giant idol called the Ka’Bah.

 

[Loginus]

Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, and the light. No one comes to the Father except through me”.

Moslems REJECT Jesus and therefore reject God Himself. In the place of Jesus Moslems worship a pedophilic savage named Mohammed and a giant idol called the Ka’Bah.

So do jews, taoist,atheists,agnostics (most of the time),buddhists, hindus…you get the picture

So you want to destroy the good majority of the world population because they dont share your views eh?

And you say you arnt being led by a man with horns and a tail? hmm interesting…lol

 

[inJESUS]

It is one thing to say Muhammad taught heresy, and another thing to accuse Muslims of worshipping Muhammad/Kaaba .

Muhammad was a heretic who nonetheless worshipped the God of Abraham, just like Arius or Basilides or any other heretic the Church had to deal with.

I do not think that this topic must be discussed any further. And if this topic is to be raised again, this is the answer that must be given and not any other uncharitable reply.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Having lived in a Muslim country (Egypt) and gone to school there – and studied Islam (required by law) while there, I have to say I have great respect for Islam.

As a Catholic, I accept the Catechism’s dictum that we respect Muslims as worshiping the God of Abraham.

As a soldier, I know that more Muslims have been killed fighting on our side than Americans in this war.

Terrorists are no more representitive of Islam than the ku Klux Klan is representative of Christianity.

 

[Angelos]

As everyone is free to praise Mohammed bin Abdullah as the destroyer of paganism and idolatry and a follower of Abraham’s monotheistic pattern, I am free to criticize him for trying to confine Abraham’s true faith to his own scripture, for trying to steal Abraham and the other religious figures from the Bible and imprisoning them in his Quran, for rewriting history in accordance with his views, for attributing false tenets to prophets, for replacing the genuine image of God and His followers with the fake ones of his personal book, for forcing idolaters to conversion, for robbing non-Muslims that do not accept his views, etc.

The God of Islam is Mohammed himself! If you believe that the God of the Quran is someone else than Mohammed, you attribute to GOD all lies, malevolence, deceit, and every negative characteristic. There’s no God in Islam, it is Mohammed talking to himself!

Peace to all

 

[vern_humphrey]

As everyone is free to praise Mohammed bin Abdullah as the destroyer of paganism and idolatry and a follower of Abraham’s monotheistic pattern, I am free to criticize him for trying to confine Abraham’s true faith to his own scripture, for trying to steal Abraham and the other religious figures from the Bible and imprisoning them in his Quran, for rewriting history in accordance with his views, for attributing false tenets to prophets, for replacing the genuine image of God and His followers with the fake ones of his personal book, for forcing idolaters to conversion, for robbing non-Muslims that do not accept his views, etc.

The God of Islam is Mohammed himself! If you believe that the God of the Quran is someone else than Mohammed, you attribute to GOD all lies, malevolence, deceit, and every negative characteristic. There’s no God in Islam, it is Mohammed talking to himself!

Peace to all

The Catholic Church disagrees with you. From the Catechism:

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

I think it comes to how one defines what the ‘God of Abraham’ is.

I am of the opinion that this ‘God of Abraham’ is a specific construct of the mind/spirit. Someone else makes up another construct while calling it the ‘God of Abraham’ does not make it so.

However, there are others who think that a heretical understanding of this construct still qualifies it to be the same construct, only perverted.

My view is that Muhammad’s heretical version of “God of Abraham” was plagiarized from the previous Abrahamic faith, and in this plagiarism that particular notion of the “God of Abraham” was merely a figment of Muhammad’s imagination - and hence does not qualify as a God. Thus, Muslims worship a figment of Muhammad’s imagination and not the “God of Abraham”. One can say Muhammad’s “God of Abraham” is no more the true “God of Abraham” than the Rastafarian Jah or the God of the Taipings or the God of the Mormons.

As stated previously, I have a problem with Christians and Jews agreeing with the notion that the Muslims also worship the “God of Abraham” since this is a heresy. If they truly believed the Muslim claim, then they should in all conscience convert to Islam since the “God of Abraham” which is their god has commanded them to do so.

 

[RomanCrusader]

Well, there is obviously a problem in our Church then.

In the Catechism it tells us that we do not know the destination of unbaptized infants, yet it says to us that the plan of salvation includes Moslems.

This is ridiculous! Of course God would allow an unbaptized baby to enter Heaven! At the same time I have a hard time believeing a grown Moslem (who is also unbaptized) can achieve salvation without Jesus.

 

[pumpqeen]

Kellie, I already told you, you can say anything you like.

You can have one thousand and one reasons why you may think a valid marriage should end in your legitimate divorce.

But to Christ Himself, there is only one allowed reason.

Fornication.

I know you cannot accept the teachings of Christ. So, its fine with me. Many people are like that. They read, but they CANNOT FOLLOW.

 

[kellie]

Kellie, I already told you, you can say anything you like.

You can have one thousand and one reasons why you may think a valid marriage should end in your legitimate divorce.

But to Christ Himself, there is only one allowed reason.

Fornication.

I know you cannot accept the teachings of Christ. So, its fine with me. Many people are like that. They read, but they CANNOT FOLLOW.

Do not ever say I cannot accept the teachings of Christ. I am a Catholic, and do try my best at all times to follow His teachings.

I am merely telling you what our faith allows. And that is annulments under certain conditions.

And I do not have a thousand and one reasons why divorce is ok.
I don’t think divorce is ok. But Catholics can divorce and remarry in the Catholic Church, SOMETIMES.

All Vatican approved.

 

[Angelos]

The Catholic Church disagrees with you. From the Catechism:

Hi friend

First I must say that I am not a member of the Catholic Church, but I have met so far numerous Catholic believers and clerics that dissent from the official teaching of Catholicism you quoted for me. Besides, I would expect the same Catholic Church to praise all the members of Hinduism and Buddhism since they too believe in the immortality of the soul.

Muslims claim to follow the path of “an” Abraham who lived in Mecca to build up the Kaaba with his son Ishmael and prophecied Mohammed’s advent! If the Catholic Church believes this Abraham to be identical with the Abraham in the Bible, She then acknowledges Mohammed’s prophetic mission and considers his religion of divine origin. If this is true - I hope not! - the Catholic Church is about to commit suicide and the Lord’s return is at hand!

Peace to you

 

[inJESUS]

guys, Muhammad was a heretic just like Basilides and Arius. Can we say both these people did not worship God of Abraham? Consider Muhammad another Arius who explained thinngs the way he wanted and attributed them to the God of Abraham. This does NOT mean that Muhammad was truthful or that his interpretation of God is correct even thou he CLAIMS to worship the God of Abraham. No Allah is NOT God because Allah contradicts God, yet the one creator muslims worship cannot be but the One God. So THEORETICALLY Allah is God but PRACTICALLY he is not.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Hi friend

First I must say that I am not a member of the Catholic Church, but I have met so far numerous Catholic believers and clerics that dissent from the official teaching of Catholicism you quoted for me.

If they do, they are in error. The Catholic Church does not establish its doctrine by majority vote. The Catechism of the Catholic Church is the Magisterium in action, and all Catholics must accept it.

Besides, I would expect the same Catholic Church to praise all the members of Hinduism and Buddhism since they too believe in the immortality of the soul.

As we do not establish doctrine by majority vote, so neither do we establish it by what someone else thinks.

Muslims claim to follow the path of “an” Abraham who lived in Mecca to build up the Kaaba with his son Ishmael and prophecied Mohammed’s advent! If the Catholic Church believes this Abraham to be identical with the Abraham in the Bible, She then acknowledges Mohammed’s prophetic mission and considers his religion of divine origin. If this is true - I hope not! - the Catholic Church is about to commit suicide and the Lord’s return is at hand!

Peace to you

You are of course wrong in your interpretation. If you want to read what the Catholic Church teaches, it is available on line at scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

I think Catechism 841 is ecumenism in extremis.

aloha.net/~mikesch/newcat.htm

 

[Angelos]

Vern wrote:

If they do, they are in error. The Catholic Church does not establish its doctrine by majority vote. The Catechism of the Catholic Church is the Magisterium in action, and all Catholics must accept it.

Angelos wrote:
But I am - luckily - still exempt from it as a Serbian Orthodox

Vern wrote:
As we do not establish doctrine by majority vote, so neither do we establish it by what someone else thinks.

Angelos wrote:
Good! Can you tell me by what you (do you represent the Catholic clergy?) establish a doctrine? Who appeared to you and commanded to consider Islam a religion of Abrahamic faith??? Gabriel? Mohammed? Abraham Himself? Jesus? Peter? Barnabas? (the Muslim writer of the fake Gospel?)

Vern wrote:
You are of course wrong in your interpretation. If you want to read what the Catholic Church teaches, it is available on line at scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Angelos wrote:
It’s good to be wrong sometimes because perfection belongs to God alone, and He gives of it to people He likes in different measures! Let me repeat myself: If the Catholic Church believes that Mohammed had Abrahamic faith, it **must ** also teach that the Quran is reliable because it’s based on Abraham’s faith in the first place. Why do we need the Bible if someone else has the same faith without the need of the Bible?

Peace to you,
Angelos

 

[Angelos]

guys, Muhammad was a heretic just like Basilides and Arius. Can we say both these people did not worship God of Abraham? Consider Muhammad another Arius who explained thinngs the way he wanted and attributed them to the God of Abraham. This does NOT mean that Muhammad was truthful or that his interpretation of God is correct even thou he CLAIMS to worship the God of Abraham. No Allah is NOT God because Allah contradicts God, yet the one creator muslims worship cannot be but the One God. So THEORETICALLY Allah is God but PRACTICALLY he is not.

Sorry inJESUS, but I cannot consider Mohammed a simple heretic like Arius and Basilides!

Those heretics did NOT claim to receive a special and final revelation from Allah in order to establish a new religion! What they did was to derive their heresies from the misinterpretation of some verses in the Bible. Still, they were Christians that did not need a new revelation or messenger to replace the Bible and save the world! For them JESUS was the Alfa and Omega!

I agree with the second part of your post though

Peace & blessings to you,
Angelos

 

[vern_humphrey]

As we do not establish doctrine by majority vote, so neither do we establish it by what someone else thinks.

Angelos wrote:
Good! Can you tell me by what you (do you represent the Catholic clergy?) establish a doctrine? Who appeared to you and commanded to consider Islam as a religion of Abrahamic faith??? Gabriel? Mohammed? Abraham Himself? Jesus? Peter? Barnabas? (the Muslim writer of the fake Gospel?)

Catholic Doctrine is established by the Magisterium – the teaching of the Catholic Bishops – is it different in your church?

I

So it is a positive virtue to teach error?

also teach that the Quran is reliable because it’s based on Abraham’s faith in the first place. Why do we need the Bible if someone else has the same faith without the need of the Bible?

Nonsense!

Read the Catechism – we respect Jews and Muslims because they seek to understand the truth, however imprefectly.

 

[Darrel]

I think Catechism 841 is ecumenism in extremis.

aloha.net/~mikesch/newcat.htm

Thats a funny link,

It says in CCC that the plan of salvation includes Muslims. I agree that it includes muslims along with atheists bank robbers and any other human being. The plan of salvation is through Christ and his Church. As far as I know the Church has never included Muhhamed on the list of valid prophets. The Church is being charitable in it’s wording towards Islam in the CCC as it should. The alternative would be to expose Islam as a false religion and Muhammed as a false prophet. This would serve nothing and inflame poor relations between Islam and Christianity in the world.

**

**624 **

“By the grace of God” Jesus tasted death “for every one”. In his plan of salvation, God ordained that his Son should not only “die for our sins” but should also “taste death”, experience the condition of death, the separation of his soul from his body, between the time he expired on the cross and the time he was raised from the dead. The state of the dead Christ is the mystery of the tomb and the descent into hell. It is the mystery of Holy Saturday, when Christ, lying in the tomb, reveals God’s great sabbath rest after the fulfillment of man’s salvation, which brings peace to the whole universe. **

-D

 

[vern_humphrey]

Sorry inJESUS, but I cannot consider Mohammed a simple heretic like Arius and Basilides!

A heretic is a Christian or former Christian who preaches error. Mohammed was never a Christian, and so cannot be a heretic.

Those heretics did NOT claim to receive a special and final revelation from Allah in order to establish a new religion! What they did was to derive their heresies from the misinterpretation of some verses in the Bible. Still, they were Christians that did not need a new revelation or messenger to replace the Bible and save the world! For them JESUS was the Alfa and Omega!

In point of fact, some heritics did claim special revelation – the Gnostics and Montanists, for example.