The grass has not been greener

[CountrySinger]

*Thanks chev…that would be a good thing to do…BUT…as I think through prior chats with her on all of this last year, and prior…she has a problem with the Church, in general. I think that is part and parcel of why she doesn’t explore the annulment process. She voted for Obama, sees nothing wrong with a Catholic being pro choice…see what I’m saying? I really don’t feel like teaching someone the ABC’s of the faith, when they should know better–she knows. She does. She chooses her own path, though…the popular cultural path. But, I do see where she is regretting some of her choices…maybe that’s part of learning.

Jesus taught His followers how joyous God is when that one lost sheep returns, than the 99 that remained in the fold. I believe this could be her ‘‘returning sheep’’ moment…but she has to want to believe, too. Popular culture has led the world astray. She buys into it all too much…the fake happiness, the artificial soap opera type ‘‘love.’’

When we have attended mass together since my coming to FL, she has made negative comments about the Church, priests, etc…how the scandals damaged her faith. I have little patience/tolerance for people who walk completely away from the Catholic faith, because of the wrongdoings of a few priests. I am outraged also, but I wouldn’t leave the faith. So, it’s things like this…where everytime, we make progress…we go back three steps. Thankfully, God’s grace keeps me coming back for more…maybe I’m a glutton for punishment. So, does that make more sense? It’s not like this one thing she doesn’t believe, I think she has problems with the faith, in general…and thinks annulments ‘are a joke,’ as she has put it in the past. But, then, she’ll change her mind, and say she has thought about it.

I think she knows Truth. It’s easy to know it, hard to live it. I think we all can attest to that, so it helps me not lose my patience with her when she cracks on the Church. *

Your sister sounds a lot like me before I came back to the Church.
I sure tested my mom’s and my best friend’s patience at times.
I used for volunteer for every pro-choice organization and worked for Planned Parenthood, and thought that women need to take control, or else we would all be doomed to be barefoot and pregnant. I thought that in order to show love, you would have to have sex (and right away, or else you’d lose the guy). And having male attention was my religion. If I went to a bar, and didn’t bring a guy home, I failed. Birth control pills and Plan B were the best things ever. Sex was good, and babies were evil. They trapped you, and you had to have your freedom.
Now fast-forward to now. To change, I had to lose a lot. After I changed my ways, most of my friends left. I was now the buzzkill. I couldn’t go out until 3 am if I had 7 am Mass. The only person left was my best friend. I had to start over. I’m too scarred to most Catholics, but too religious for most people.
To summarize, it can seem like it is too many to lose to change. It almost like you have to “take back” what you used to believe, which is embarassing. That is what kept me from doing it for so long. At this pro-life event I went to, I saw some people that a couple years before (when I was the Planned Parenthood side). I know my mom’s best friend said something like “and here’s a former Planned Parenthood employee, who has seen the light”. Awkward to say the least.
To end this enormous post, there is hope. I always said, if I can come back, anyone can come back. I think my mom picked up tips from St. Monica in Heaven.

 

[Ralph4454]

Hail Mary,
full of grace,
the Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

 

[SMHW]

Hi Whatevergirl.

I really have no idea if your sister and her ex can get together again. I’ve known (not closely) of several couples who have divorced and then ended up back together again. (Not all of them actually bothered to re-marry.)

What I do think --and I will pray for this-- is that the two of them can truly forgive each other. (I know you said your sister asked for forgiveness and her ex gave it.) I also think that it might be best if they move forward slowly toward whatever end may come. It seems like they need to get to know and appreciate each other for who they are now rather than for who they are when they married. I can’t remember for sure but I think these two have children together? If so, they have a fairly permanent bond so who knows where the relationship might someday go.

If I were you I’d encourage your sister to avoid having a relationship with ANY man, including her ex for the next two years at least. And I’d encourage her to get right with the Church. If she’s willing to do those things then maybe it would be OK to encourage her to try to get together with the ex.

 

[whatevergirl]

*CS and SMHW…Thank you for your comments. SMHW, yes, maybe I shouldn’t have made the suggestion. I was just talking to a friend back in PA on the phone, and she said that until your sister figures out why she left her husband, she won’t be able to begin a new chapter of her life. Lots of truth there, and I explained to her (she is Baptist) that the annulment process does just that, provides a healing process. She was quite intrigued by the whole thing, and said it was never explained that way to her…that she knew it to be a ‘‘Catholic divorce.’’ Nope, it’s not a Catholic ‘‘version’’ of divorce.

Anywho…still no sign of my sister…I wrote her that I hope I didn’t offend her, (after the first email I mentioned) and still nothing. I can’t control it beyond this…I truly feel that if she asks for my advice and why God isn’t ‘‘answering her prayers for a new man,’’ then she has to be willing to accept that my advice isn’t going to be secular. I really believe that until she reconciles her marriage one way or the other…she won’t move forward with ‘‘another’’ man.

I can’t thank you enough for your (name removed by moderator)ut and prayers … :grouphug:

Okay…suppose she responds…’‘My marriage is over, stop telling me to seek the annulment process.’’ Then what?

 

[whatevergirl]

Ok, she replied (I should learn to grow in patience)…she said she could never be offended by me, she knows I have her back. She has thought about her ‘‘ex,’’ and said he is very happy now with a new woman…she is beautiful, much younger, and she feels he is happy. This woman has a 12 yr old. That she doesn’t want to disrupt that. She said she fell out of love a long time ago, long before the papers were signed for the divorce, and that she feels her ex is better off without her in his life, now. She is starting to believe that she isn’t meant for anyone anymore, maybe God wants her to remain single. (the truth is, she could remain single without gaining a declaration of nullity) But, I wonder why, if her ex has completely moved on with his life too…why she won’t explore the annulment process. Oh well, I just wanted to update you all. Thanks for listening, and advising.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

I would just tell her that if he is in love with someone else, that going through with the process would be a lovely way to show him she was sorry and make it up to him and set him free to marry in the church someday. (You don’t have to tell her that it would be a great way also for her to achieve healing and self-discovery.)

 

[whatevergirl]

I would just tell her that if he is in love with someone else, that going through with the process would be a lovely way to show him she was sorry and make it up to him and set him free to marry in the church someday. (You don’t have to tell her that it would be a great way also for her to achieve healing and self-discovery.)

*Liberano, you always know the right thing to say…at the right time, I might add. lol Thank you…I am going to say just this, since she seems to have an open ear right now. *

 

[yellowdaisy]

I jsut read this whole thread and I wanted you to know that I’m thinking of you and your sister tonight Whatevergirl! Please keep us updated about her situation. I’m praying she finds peace and reconcilliation within the church!

 

[whatevergirl]

*thank you yellowdaisy.

I just hope she asks God what His will is…when she does THAT, I have a feeling things might change in her favor. *

 

[kage_ar]

My grandparents divorced each other - twice, and married each other THREE times!

 

[whatevergirl]

My grandparents divorced each other - twice, and married each other THREE times!

* Stop it…really??? There’s hope!

I think she feels that her ex has ‘‘his life together’’ now and she doesn’t want to disrupt it…and if she does disrupt it and it ends** again**…he might never forgive her. This is what is going on in her head.*

 

[kage_ar]

* Stop it…really??? There’s hope!

I think she feels that her ex has ‘‘his life together’’ now and she doesn’t want to disrupt it…and if she does disrupt it and it ends** again***…he might never forgive her. This is what is going on in her head.

Most women overthink everything.

 

[shannyk]

Most women overthink everything.

Truer words were never spoken.:yup:

Prayers for your sister WG. Sounds like she is kinda suffering internally…thinks her DH is better off without her…lashing out at the Church (often a sign of deep insecurities e.g. God couldn’t love ME). She’s afraid…afraid of not being loved or being able to love. Aren’t we all?

 

[leonie]

There’s lots of stories of reconciliation in* Amazing Grace for Married Couples* by Jeff Cavins. It even has a story about a couple who divorced, married others, then came to a realization of the permanence of marriage. So they divorced their 2nd couples and remarried.

 

[whatevergirl]

*shanny! You could very well have hit the nail on the head! I wonder if that is the issue with her all along…a feeling of not being worthy, unlovable…thank you for the insight!

leonie…my sister loves to read…maybe I’ll mention this book to her, or get it for her. Thanks for the suggestion!

I appreciate the prayers and insights everyone, you have been most helpful.*

 

[whatevergirl]

*I can’t help but wonder, let me know if you think this could be a possibility also…that my sister resented my dad for not putting my mother in a hospital. (she has said as much) My mom was ill, off and on, when I was little, my sister was always left tending to the housework, me, etc…she felt marriage would help her ‘‘escape,’’ as my dad who was very strict (and maybe selfish at the time? I hate to think that about my dad) wouldn’t permit my sister to go to college. (my sister thinks to ‘‘use’’ her to take care of our mom) That said, she married shortly out of high school, and my dad then hired a nanny to take care of me. I wonder if there is a subtle link between that…and my BIL having two heart attacks, and she left him a few years after that, stating to me that she didn’t want to ‘‘end up like daddy.’’ For the longest time, she had deep seated resentment towards him, which she says now, she has healed from.

I have the opposite viewpoint of my sister regarding my dad. Granted, I was much younger, and not given the responsibilities my sister was handed, but, I look back and see a true love between my mom and dad…and my dad meant his vows…’‘through sickness and in health,’’ and he stood by my mom, through times when she wouldn’t get out of bed for weeks! So…he is a good role model to me about marriage. To my sister, (well, for many years anyways) she thought he should have left our mother, and moved on. I think she would have had a different opinion, had she not been the one saddled with all the burdens. Not exactly fair what he did either, to a child. She was only 13 when I was born, and she said, she had little social life because he was working, and she had to hold down the fort, so to speak. Kinda sad.

Yesterday, she commented in an email that the only thing he (he ex) did ‘‘wrong,’’ was get sick, and sort of give up on life. He didn’t deserve what she did, she said.

I think it’s an interesting parallel, anyways. *

 

[kage_ar]

Also remember, many smart people say that we form our image of God from our relationship with our earthly father.

 

[whatevergirl]

Also remember, many smart people say that we form our image of God from our relationship with our earthly father.

Which is equally as odd, because my dad was a devout Catholic…always attended mass, and I learned to pray with him …my mom prayed the Rosary daily…My sister was never able to just be a kid, she said. I think that is part and parcel for wanting to relive her lost youth now…which as we know, we can never get back.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

They say your first divorce is really from a parent. I bet your sister was “divorcing your mother”.

Something to think about… she married someone who fell into a pattern like she grew up with and she rejected it.

 

[dixieagle]

A priest I knew said he had done many “remarriage” ceremonies.

The fact she never went seeking an annulment maybe was because deep down she felt it was valid. And in such a case, the marriage will prove its validity by enduring even this “freakout” of hers.

It’s between her and her husband. Only they know whether they want to spend the rest of their lives together. In her case, she will have much to make up to him for her actions and to reinstill trust. (See a post I have above about trusting in marriage again.)

If there is any glimmer of anything, I’d suggest they go to Retrouvaille.

It’s not impossible. But it requires a genuine change of heart and a realization of what is really important in life. Maybe she is finally ready to be open to that.

The final decision is really his. She may realize the grass is greener. Only he can say whethere it’s too late. Pray for both of them to discern God’s will.

I think this is excellent insight and advice. It sounds as if she has real regrets, and has taken the first step in apologizing to her husband. Certainly reconciliation is possible, unless he has been hurt so much he doesn’t want to take that chance again.

I’m guessing he has not entered into a second, civil marriage?

Her situation is likely not all that unusual, though I think that often, when people finally realize what they had, and threw away, they are too embarrassed and prideful to try to make amends.

I had a friend, who has since moved away, who was married quite young (20) to a man who is one of the most respected people in this community. She felt she had missed out on part of her youth and tried to recapture it in her late forties and early fifties. She was frustrated that he didn’t share in her enthusiasm for parties, dancing, etc., and actually said to me “it’s hard being married to perfection.” I thought, “Plenty of people might like to try!” She divorced him, and chased after a recently widowed former classmate, and ultimately married him. Women beat a path to the door of her first husband, who is now remarried to a very successful woman who values him (none of them is Catholic, btw, so, at least in their eyes, this was all OK).

I think many people go through mid-life frustrations like this, once the bloom is off the rose, so to speak. It can take years to realize that what you have - or had - is actually pretty darn good. I give your sister credit for realizing this, and I will pray that a reconciliation is possible.