The Hitler question

[SILVERNAME]

It would be impossible to write a book of this sort without addressing the three subjects that inevitably come up when atheists are contending with Christians. Just as atheists anticipate the need to answer for Stalin and Mao, Christians are expected to answer for the Inquisition and the Crusades. And both sides recognize the need to deal with the Hitler question. Like Einstein, the Führer made enough ambiguous statements to leave the matter up for discussion; unlike Einstein, no one is eager to claim Hitler and his National Socialists as members of their intellectual camp. The Unholy Trinity have no choice but to concern themselves with the matter, of course, and they do so largely in the manner that one has come to expect from them. Harris wastes eight pages attempting to tar the Catholic church and Pope Pius XII with guilt by insufficient opposition, then on the basis of no evidence whatsoever, declares that Auschwitz was a logical and inevitable consequence of the Christian faith. Hitchens also complains about the Catholic church and relates a few irrelevant anecdotes about Italian Fascists and Irish Blue Shirts, but then shows genuine insight when he notes that the Hitler regime shows us “with terrible clarity what can happen when men usurp the role of gods.”

wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=60019

 

[mschrank]

Who cares… some whack jobs will always write something. That’s why I don’t apologize for the inquisition.

 

[SILVERNAME]

eh??

 

[john1863]

eh??

Agreed.

My problem with the whole Hitler thing, beyond the man’s obvious evil, is that he is used all too often in comparison to modern leaders and events. He has become the default definition of evil for almost any situation.

Those who use him in that way, have little understanding of exactly how despicable the man was.

John

 

[ribozyme]

Agreed.

My problem with the whole Hitler thing, beyond the man’s obvious evil, is that he is used all too often in comparison to modern leaders and events. He has become the default definition of evil for almost any situation.

Those who use him in that way, have little understanding of exactly how despicable the man was.

John

Godwin’s law! Godwin’s law! Godwin’s law!

 

[Hastrman]

Godwin’s law! Godwin’s law! Godwin’s law!

Also, wasn’t the first thing dangerously close to Milton Himmelfarb’s definition of Argumentum ad Hitlerum?

 

[john1863]

Godwin’s law

Indeed.

John

 

[mschrank]

The point is, people might have thought twice before coming up with garbage if there was some kind of deterrent to heretical nonsense.

Like a hot poker.

 

[Shraleina]

The point is, people might have thought twice before coming up with garbage if there was some kind of deterrent to heretical nonsense.

Like a hot poker.

That was tried. It was called the tortures and massacres not only of the inquisition but of thousands of pogroms used to keep people in line - not to mention the massacres of the various natives peoples around the world. Perhaps we should look at another way of dealing with people, huh?

 

[Hastrman]

That was tried. It was called the tortures and massacres not only of the inquisition but of thousands of pogroms used to keep people in line - not to mention the massacres of the various natives peoples around the world. Perhaps we should look at another way of dealing with people, huh?

I guarantee you don’t know anything about either of the two legitimate Inquisitions, you generalize about them from the (semi-illegal) Spanish one.

Similarly, other than Portugal and Belgium, no Catholic nation has ever “massacred” native peoples–or did you ever notice what race most Mexicans are? Not Spanish, hint.

What you are doing is repeating La Leyenda Negra–and making yourself look like an illiterate bigot.

Did you perhaps know that the current Pope was Grand Inquisitor? What is now the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was until recently the Roman Inquisition. No repudiation occured; they just changed the name.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

Hitler had his contemporary in Josef Stalin.

 

[crowonsnow]

This is not an attempt to tar anyone or any group.

My take on the Christian/Hitler/atheist point has always been to recognize that Germany and Italy and Russia were all Christian nations before becoming the Stalinist/Fascist/Nazi nightmares that they became. In Germany, the Nazis were Catholics and Lutherans. In Italy they were Catholic. In Russia they were Eastern Rite Catholic.

So my response to anyone taking a Hitler/Atheist swing has been to counter that Hitlerism/Fascism and Stalinism all grew out of Christianity. If conversion to and the practice of the Christian religions cannot prevent the rise of Fascism and Hitlerism and Stalinism, what possible good is it?

 

[johnstown_johnn]

Stalin was NOT a Christian nor was Karl Marx and Lenin. These were evil men that never knew Christ.

 

[Hastrman]

Stalin was NOT a Christian nor was Karl Marx and Lenin. These were evil men that never knew Christ.

Um…most Orthodox seminarians might be considered to know Christ, at least to talk to, right?

Stalin (Ioseb Besarionis Dze Jughashvili) was one, Georgian Orthodox.

As for Marx, no, he was a self-hating (no, really self-hating) Jewish atheist, and Lenin (Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov ) was I believe Lutheran, background-wise. Trotsky (Lev Davidovich Bronstein) was also an atheist of Jewish descent (as were many if not most Trotskyites–neo-cons are so frequently Jewish because they began as Trotskyite Communists).

You’re judged by what you are when you do your important work, not by what you were when you were a child. Otherwise Darwin was an Anglican and Salman Rushdie is a Muslim.

 

[jj2011]

And both sides recognize the need to deal with the Hitler question. Like Einstein, the Führer made enough ambiguous statements to leave the matter up for discussion; unlike Einstein, no one is eager to claim Hitler and his National Socialists as members of their intellectual camp. The Unholy Trinity have no choice but to concern themselves with the matter, of course, and they do so largely in the manner that one has come to expect from them. Harris wastes eight pages attempting to tar the Catholic church and Pope Pius XII with guilt by insufficient opposition, then on the basis of no evidence whatsoever, declares that Auschwitz was a logical and inevitable consequence of the Christian faith.

Hitler, although raised Catholic, was profoundly anti-Catholic and considered Christianity to be of Jewish origin; in fact, consistent neo-Nazis to this day consider Christianity a sort of “Judaism for Gentiles.” Nazism is of occult, anti-Christian origin, and the Nazi party was, before Hitler took over, the political arm of the occult Thule society.

 

[Hastrman]

Hitler, although raised Catholic, was profoundly anti-Catholic and considered Christianity to be of Jewish origin; in fact, consistent neo-Nazis to this day consider Christianity a sort of “Judaism for Gentiles.” Nazism is of occult, anti-Christian origin, and the Nazi party was, before Hitler took over, the political arm of the occult Thule society.

Actually, the Nazis would be right about Christianity being Judaism for gentiles. And all mankind other than Marcionist Supercessionists considers Christianity to be “of Jewish origin.”

As for the Thule society…

 

[johnstown_johnn]

Um…most Orthodox seminarians might be considered to know Christ, at least to talk to, right?

Stalin (Ioseb Besarionis Dze Jughashvili) was one, Georgian Orthodox.

As for Marx, no, he was a self-hating (no, really self-hating) Jewish atheist, and Lenin (Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov ) was I believe Lutheran, background-wise. Trotsky (Lev Davidovich Bronstein) was also an atheist of Jewish descent (as were many if not most Trotskyites–neo-cons are so frequently Jewish because they began as Trotskyite Communists).

You’re judged by what you are when you do your important work, not by what you were when you were a child. Otherwise Darwin was an Anglican and Salman Rushdie is a Muslim.

So then Lenin and Stalin were "Christians?"

 

[Hastrman]

So then Lenin and Stalin were "Christians?"

When they were kids, yeah. Stalin up till he was an adult.

But then they became atheists.

All I was saying. Baptism ain’t magic, to keep you from apostasy.

They did, in fact, know Christ. And rejected him. Stalin certainly, Lenin probably, just for the sake of power. Trotsky I think was sincere in his belief in Communism and therefore atheism.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

When they were kids, yeah. Stalin up till he was an adult.

**"…religion is the opiate of the people…" ----Lenin **

But then they became atheists.

They were atheists long befgore adulthood.

All I was saying. Baptism ain’t magic, to keep you from apostasy.

They did, in fact, know Christ. And rejected him. Stalin certainly, Lenin probably, just for the sake of power. Trotsky I think was sincere in his belief in Communism and therefore atheism.

**Did Stalin ever proclaim Christ? Did Lenin? **

 

[DawnInTexas]

Hitler may have been raised a Catholic…
But then turned his back on Christ’s Church. He practiced Madame HP Blavatsky’s Theosophy.

Just for “fun,” search for these 3 words:

Hitler Sanger Theosophy

Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood also practiced Theosophy. Read any of the results that come back. <-By doing this, you will find what’s behind PP today (and the blood sacrifice of the innocents).

“The American Baby Code” is just one part of it all.

Sad thing is, none of these college kids use their computer to read up on these things, before they head to PP for birth control. They save a couple of bucks. At such a cost! They go into the Abortion Clinic for birth control—and are being set up to fail! After all, that’s where the big bucks are-the abortion!

Consumer Reports tested condoms, and PP’s rated dead last.
When PP puts a young woman on birth control pills, they only prescribe the lowest dosage. -Never upping or changing because of body weight, physiology, etc. like a doctor would. (Granted, as a practicing Catholic, we do not believe in Artificial Birth Control!)

But why do they do this? Because they are an Abortion Clinic!!!

Like lambs to the slaughter, they keep coming. How very sad and misled they are, caught up in this web of lies. Abortion hurts women. 1 heart stopped, 1 wounded.

Abortion is the reason breast cancer cases have skyrocketed. Now, not all breast cancer cases are due to abortion, nor every woman who has it has had an abortion. It has been found, if a woman has an abortion, especially if it is her 1st pregnancy-that her chances for breast cancer are magnified 800%. <-This is why the explosion of cases.

Margaret Sanger’s holocaust, since it was legalized in our Country with Roe -vs- Wade in 1973? The number killed is 50,000,000+. That’s over fifty million.

It is estimated that Hitler’s Holocaust killed 11 million. 6 million Jews, and 5 million Catholics & others.

Theosophy. Woe!

+Peace Be With You.
-Dawn