We are talking past each other. Shall we get back to the original topic?
1)No laws of nature can produce life out of inanimate matter.
2)No laws of nature can explain where these “matter” i.e. dust, gases, energy came from. How did it come into existence?
Try not to appeal to complexity to win your case. It won’t work. Others as well as myself are interested in your answers. Not how well read you are. Go ahead and laugh at my ignorance of high chemistry, cosmology, physics. But at the end of the day, if you can’t answer the simple peasant queries i.e. me, all those knowledge, degrees are for nought.
So far:
- You: (a)chemistry (b) Abiogenesis can generate amino acids, lipid bilayers, purines and pyrimidines.
Me: But no life yet.
2)You: stellar nucleosynthesis
Me: where did the substance comes from
You:hydrogen
Me: where did hydrogen and precursor come from?
You: Multiverse
Me: Penrose say it is not even a theory, hardly science, only an idea, no support for observation. John Horgan says it is a joke.
On 1) I’d want to add something I read last night on those amino acids, purines etc allegedly produced in the prebiotic soup.
(i) Prebiotic simulation experiments are subject to investigator intervention. In some chemical syntheses, for example, it may be necessary to combine reactants in a particular order, or vary the rates of addition in order to control temperature, to adjust pH at a crucial color change, to remove products of reaction after ten minutes instead of twenty minutes, etc. Such manipulations are the hallmark of intelligent, exogenous interference and should not be employed in any prebiotic experiment. Brooks and Shaw commented "These experiments … claim abiotic synthesis for what has in fact been produced and designed by highly intelligent and very much biotic man. (J. Brooks and G. Shaw, 1973. Origin and Development of Living System.p. 212.). The studies you have quoted, do they fall into this category? Were they done in the proper early earth environment?
(ii) How do you overcome the problem of dilution and interfering cross-reaction even if such products were formed in the prebiotic soup. In the atmosphere and in the ocean, dilution processes would dominate making concentrations of essential ingredients too small for chemical evolution rates to be significant. Dilution results from the destruction of organic compounds or diminishing the important chemicals for productive interaction. Organic compounds would have been subject to thermal degradation in the ocean. Miller and Orgel have shown that chemical evolution could not occur if the ocean were warmer than about 25°C since important intermediates would be destroyed by heat. (S.L Miller and L.E. Orgel, 1974. The Origins of Life on the Earth p.127) The geology view is that the earth was too hot 3.98 billion years ago and earlier to support life. The organic compounds also would be degraded by chemical interaction with a variety of substances in the ocean or by UV in the atmosphere. Survival of proteins in the soup would have been difficult.
(iii)If there ever was a primitive soup, then we would expect to find at least somewhere on thjs planet either massive sediments containing enormous amounts of the various nitrogenous organic compounds, amino acids, purines, pyrimidines, and the like, or alternatively in much-metamorphosed sediments we should find vast amounts of nitrogenous cokes [graphite-like nitrogen containing materials]. In fact no such materials have been found anywhere on earth. (Brooks and Shaw. Origin and Development of Living System, p. 359.)
If there were no prebiotic soup, where/how did we and living organisms come from?
(iv)Brooks and Shaw state that the oldest rocks on earth are probably about 3.98 billion years old. However, the oldest age confirmed by dating techniques is 3.8 billion years for the rocks from the Isua series in Greenland.* In either case, the surprising implication is that we may almost say that life has alwaysexisted on earth. Before 3.98 billion years ago (from 4.6 to 3.98 billion years), the earth was probably too hot to support life.Then Iife appeared about 3.81billion years ago. That is, only 0.170 billion (170 million) years were available for the abiotic emergence of life. Indeed, according to Brooks and Shaw, this amount of time for abiogenic synthesis of essential precursors, let alone chemical evolution, is “very small.” (J. Brooks and G. Shaw, 1973. Origin and Development of Living System.)
The discovery of microfossils has confirmed this conclusion. Hence, you don’t have enough time for any random model to work, whether single world or many world models.
