The immaculate misconception

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AngryAtheist8 said:
Because it means that escaping sin is all but impossible, and if you’re attempting to get free of sin you’re setting yourself up to fail.
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Actually it does not mean that at all.The grace provided by God is sufficient to overcome any and all sin, provided the sinner is willing to overcome it. More often than not the sinner prefers the pleasure of the sin while disregarding the promised consequences.
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
I was referring to the old Victorianeque standards that dominated in the West until the Sexual Revolution. This ideal still holds a lot of sway in America, which is why there was such an uproar over Janet Jackson flashing a breast during the Superbowl a few years ago, but no similar uproar over the increasingly graphic depictions of violence on TV and in movies.
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Your examples continue to miss the mark. How does a particular culture, that isn’t in line with Catholic moral teaching, an an example of the incorrectness of Church teaching?
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
The traditional attitude of the Catholic Church (and devout Catholics for that matter) argues against your interpretation.

The Church has usually argued against any depiction, promotion, or even discussion of sex, nudity, and sexuality **in the public sphere. ** Treating the whole subject as something that needs to be hidden, not openly discussed, and certainly not celebrated.
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Yeah, funny how people generally don’t advertise their sex lives. We also don’t encourage people to publish their household monthly budgets in the newspapers. Do you have an issue with that as well?

Does that mean we find managing and budgeting the family money as a sinful, harmful thing that needs to be hidden away?

No, it means that we think it is a private matter and none of your business.

BTW- It is not my interpretation. It is the accepted teaching of the Catholic Church.

Now you are correct, not all Catholics have a great understanding of the Church’s position. Some don’t talk about it, some avoid it, some think it is dirty. All of those attitudes indicate a lack of understanding and usually a misinterpretation of the Church’s teachings. That is a fault with the education of Catholics not a fault with the Church’s position itself.
 
davidv said:
Actually it does not mean that at all.The grace provided by God is sufficient to overcome any and all sin, provided the sinner is willing to overcome it. More often than not the sinner prefers the pleasure of the sin while disregarding the promised consequences.
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I know that is what the Church teaches, but that is not logically consistent.

If we are Fallen/Sinful people living in a Fallen/Sinful world, and surrounded by temptation, with giving in all too ease, which people generally do (as the Church teaches) then it doesn’t make sense that sin would be anything but virtually impossible to avoid (after all, sin also lives inside us).
 
davidv said:
Your examples continue to miss the mark. How does a particular culture, that isn’t in line with Catholic moral teaching, an an example of the incorrectness of Church teaching?
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Don’t be self-centered.
I wasn’t talking specifically about the Catholic Church or even Catholic culture.
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
I know that is what the Church teaches, but that is not logically consistent.
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So you claim. Please demonstrate.
If we are Fallen/Sinful people living in a Fallen/Sinful world, and surrounded by temptation, with giving in all too ease, which people generally do (as the Church teaches) then it doesn’t make sense that sin would be anything but virtually impossible to avoid (after all, sin also lives inside us).
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Again so you claim. The numerous Saints who have conquered sin are testimony against your claim.
 
StarFireKK said:
Yeah, funny how people generally don’t advertise their sex lives. We also don’t encourage people to publish their household monthly budgets in the newspapers. Do you have an issue with that as well?

Does that mean we find managing and budgeting the family money as a sinful, harmful thing that needs to be hidden away?

No, it means that we think it is a private matter and none of your business.

BTW- It is not my interpretation. It is the accepted teaching of the Catholic Church.

Now you are correct, not all Catholics have a great understanding of the Church’s position. Some don’t talk about it, some avoid it, some think it is dirty. All of those attitudes indicate a lack of understanding and usually a misinterpretation of the Church’s teachings. That is a fault with the education of Catholics not a fault with the Church’s position itself.
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To a certain extent its not that important what the real position of the Catholic Church is with regard to sex, because the Church has never really understand the basic truth that PR matters.

Even if we accept that the Church has always promoted sex (of a very very narrowly defined kind), by treating sex as something to hidden, something that can’t be openly discussed, and something that polite people pretend doesn’t exist, the Catholic Church has created the impression that it considers sex shameful. Even some Catholics believe this, which has created difficulties for the devout.
 
davidv said:
So you claim. Please demonstrate.

Again so you claim. The numerous Saints who have conquered sin are testimony against your claim.
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And how do we know about the saints?
Do their stories of sin-conquering come from a reliable unbiased source?:rolleyes:
 
davidv said:
Are you projecting?

Then your comments are off topic as the OP was a particular objection to Catholic moral teaching regarding sexuality.
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I think Spock would agree that it was related to his OP.
 
davidv said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
And how do we know about the saints?

Well documented history

Quote:
Do their stories of sin-conquering come from a reliable unbiased source?

Yes
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No David, these stories come from the Catholic Church, which is anything but unbiased when it comes to its own history. Moreover, if the recent abuse scandal proves anything, it proves that the Church is certainly capable of lying (by ommission and otherwise) to protect and promote its own reputation.
 
davidv said:
No you didn’t. Your presented an illogical appeal to emotion and submitted a red herring.
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How is mentioning that the Church is very biased and has shown itself capable of lying an appeal to emotion?

That seems very on topic when it comes to the Church’s reliability concerning its claims.
 
We are all one body. Something affecting one does affect us all. Not heading the laws of the Father, given to us by the Son, affects the world. Also, anything affecting one’s eternal soul, is most harmful.
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
Since you’re a Catholic I will assume that was not meant as a compliment, but I take it as one anyway.
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Of course it was a compliment! The Protestants of my youth liked their propriety, indeed, they even liked their impropriety to be decorous, or as you put it, Ole Skool. They said Catholic propriety was shocking, indeed, genital. I found that sentiment appealing somehow, it was amusing in the way that a man reading Playboy while wearing a cardigan sweater and smoking a pipe is amusing.

It’s a pity its passing away among the Protestants themselves. However, I am gratified to see the spirit living on in your posts!

When atheists gather in conclave, do they now by any chance serve coffee and doughnuts?.
 
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