Very well, let’s use this definition. I merely wanted to make the definition as broad as possible. Are you comfortable with the “trivializing” of murder? During the nazi era, there were several laws legitimizing the treatment of Jews. As such the treatment of the Jews in the camps, their extermination was a legitim affair, since the laws said so. Also, you will have to drop your calling abortion murder, since it is legally permitted. I wonder if you are willing to do that. Seems that you guys would like to have your cake and eat it, too.
I’m not quite sure what you mean by the “trivializing” of murder. Will you please clarify that for me? Thanks. I haven’t thought about the treatment of the Jews in the camps (and of course, many who were tortured and killed weren’t Jewish but Christian or whomever the Nazi’s had decided provided some sort of threat and therefore should be annihilated) but as for abortion, I agree that it is not murder. Yet I am avidly pro-life. I don’t use the word “murder” when I discuss abortion. If I ever have, it was a mistake on my part. I use the words “kill” or “slaughter” mostly. Not murder - although I may have when I first started debating the topic of abortion.
Ah, so you did not like these particular words? Shall we say: “they ignore SOME of the teachings of the Vatican”? And, yes, I am glad they do. Despite lots of good teachings of catholicism (which just happen to be universal ideas) there are many teachings which I find abysmally misguided, and disastruously wrong. And I am glad that there are Catholics who disagree with those. It shows that the iron hand of orthodoxy is losing its grip. And that is not disrespect for the “church” itself, it is “disrespect” toward those members of the church who hold those “ultra-orthodox” views. If that is also against the forum rules, then I am sure the mods will take appropriate action.
Yes, let us please say “they ignore SOME of the teachings of the Vatican.” Thank you. I don’t believe anything you’ve written here violates any forum rules. It was just that phrase.
But I wonder if the presence of Cafeteria Catholics is a new phenomenon. The presence of so many groups which have splintered off from the Catholic Church shows that many people have not been happy with Church teaching and have left the Church to start their own churches - many of which have been extremely successful, at least in terms of attracting new members, in being around for quite a long time, and in the good work they do in helping those less fortunate and in bringing Christianity to many who have not been exposed to it in the past. I’m a bit confused by Cafeteria Catholics (although I believe I used to be one myself) because they certainly don’t need to be members of the Catholic Church - so why not leave? What is holding them there? I guess that’s a subject for another thread but I do wonder.
Using logic and reason. I used the scientific method: “applied those principles, and they turned out to be working just well”. (By their works you shall know them - which is the scientific method in a nutshell).
My training is in science and I’ve never heard scientific method being described as you have described it. I like it. I’ll have to think about it a bit more.
What I’m thinking of right now is that maybe some people have found that hatred, rape, murder turn out to be working just well. Maybe that’s why some ethnic supremacist groups have become so popular.
I’m sure that my next question has already been answered but would you please answer again (if you want): Do you think there is something (a “collective unconscious” as Jung would say, or a set of Universal Laws, or just *something *)that tends to lead people to choose what is good, kind, charitable, loving one’s neighbors, loving one’s enemies? Could it be simply that those who act in a “good” way contribute significantly more to the gene pool than those who act in a “bad” way?
My opinion (which is subject to change) is that there *is *something that draws many to acts of kindness, to being “good” and that whatever it is, it is not God (or perhaps it is as everything comes from Him; maybe I should say it is not *obviously *God, at least to some people). I like Jung’s concept although I have misgivings about it. I can’t seem to find or define what this “something” is. I haven’t read a lot of the bible but I don’t remember ever disagreeing with Jesus’ words, especially His two Great Commandments. Maybe that’s because of the way I was raised (both of my parents considered themselves to be practicing Catholics) but I don’t think so because, to be honest, my parents “talked the talk” but rarely “walked the walk.” I attended a parochial school and my only memories of it are negative and painful.
So why do I know that being kind to others is good, the correct way to be?
