The importance of a physical resurrection

[PRmerger]

However, as a Catholic you may not be permitted to read His Writings, for fear of being swindled by the devil, so I need to let you do your own battle for that salvationary knowledge…

I think you are under the misapprehension that Catholics are not permitted to examine other writings.

You need to be aware that Catholicism does not reject the truths of other religions, even if they are only the shadows of truth.

 

[PRmerger]

Maybe you and PRmerger should PM each other so that you can get a correct understanding and then you can enlighten me further.

Careful, Kam. It is good for you to be here and to dialogue with knowledgeable Catholics about the faith.

But comments such as the above may be construed as being a bit mocking.

That may not be permitted on the CAFs.

Remember, you are a guest in our home, and as such, need to be respectful. I think that’s what your Sacred Writings would tell you to do, yes?

 

[jochoa]

Jochoa, my good friend.

I am well aware that the NASA diagram that you provided were your own thoughts on this matter. I certainly did not see that diagram in the Catechism myself!

However, what I did ask is the fact that you have obviously assigned heaven (where Jesus currently resides) as a PHYSICAL place, where that is, is irrelevant.

Now PRmerger says that it is a META-physical place.

Can you appreciate the confusion??

Maybe you and PRmerger should PM each other so that you can get a correct understanding and then you can enlighten me further.

There is simply too much confusion. Is it not confusing for others reading this thread?

Kam

I definitely understand your point. To prevent confusion next time, perhaps you should strictly request what the Church Teaches on the issue, and not request the interpretations of various lovers of Jesus.

I look forward to further discussion!

 

[Kam_Fanaian]

Careful, Kam. It is good for you to be here and to dialogue with knowledgeable Catholics about the faith.

But comments such as the above may be construed as being a bit mocking.

That may not be permitted on the CAFs.

Remember, you are a guest in our home, and as such, need to be respectful. I think that’s what your Sacred Writings would tell you to do, yes?

My dear friend, as you can see from all of my posts, I have tried sincerely to avoid silly remarks like the one I made.

I SINCERELY apologzie.

I appreciate the warmth of the friends here, and I would not like to take it for granted, and I let my frustration get the better of me.

I assure you it will never happen again. I would love some consistency in the answers I am getting however.

Please accept my apologies again

Kam

 

[Kam_Fanaian]

I definitely understand your point. To prevent confusion next time, perhaps you should strictly request what the Church Teaches on the issue, and not request the interpretations of various lovers of Jesus.

I look forward to further discussion!

Hi jochoa,

I would like to know what the Church teaches, and it seems to me that your understanding contradicts it.

In the Catechism it says the following words " not limited by space and time but able to be present how and when he wills; for Christ’s humanity can no longer be confined to earth, and belongs henceforth only to the Father’s divine realm."

…anything that is confined to “space and time” is a PHYSICAL body. Anything “not limited to space and time” is a soul.

A physical body is confined to earth, or the physical universe.

A soul is “no longer confined to earth”

A soul “belongs…to the Father’s divine realm”

So why so much emphasis on a physical body?

Kam

 

[Kam_Fanaian]

Not really.

Do you understand how supernatural and natural can co-exist?

Then you should be able to understand that metaphysical and physical realities, too, can co-exist.

I think, perhaps, you are feigning this obtusity, yes?

Yes I agree that supernatural and natural can co-exist within the confines of God’s creation.

BUT, they cannot exist within the confines of a single entity.

An apple is a natural entity. It cannot be a supernatural entity at the same time.

A soul is a supernatural entity. It cannot be a natural entity at the same time.

Yet the soul and apple “co-exist” within creation at the same time.

I am not feigning anything. I am trying to get some sensical answers on some of the core beliefs of Catholicism.

Thank you and God bless you

Kam

 

[jochoa]

Hi jochoa,

I would like to know what the Church teaches, and it seems to me that your understanding contradicts it.

In the Catechism it says the following words " not limited by space and time but able to be present how and when he wills; for Christ’s humanity can no longer be confined to earth, and belongs henceforth only to the Father’s divine realm."

…anything that is confined to “space and time” is a PHYSICAL body. Anything “not limited to space and time” is a soul.

A physical body is confined to earth, or the physical universe.

A soul is “no longer confined to earth”

A soul “belongs…to the Father’s divine realm”

So why so much emphasis on a physical body?

Kam

Kam, I appreciate your posts very much! This one especially, for you educated me on a Catechism which I think is brilliant!

There are many wise terms in that Teaching which keep my understandings in alignment with Church Teachings.

Here are some concepts to consider:

1. Would “Christ’s humanity, from this point forward, belongs only to the Father’s realm” indicate that there is a human in the Father’s realm?
2. The Wisdom of Church Teachings.
   “Not limited” - In other words, it does not exclude space and time.
   “Christ” - Defining who/what the entirety of Christ is, is another discussion in itself.
   “Father’s divine realm” - Will you please share your understandings of the Father’s divine realm? Are you willing to limit the Father’s divine realm to certain specifics? Just because it is the Father’s divine realm doesn’t mean that it is not physical.

My friend, I definitely agree that my understandings can easily come across as contradictory with Church Teachings, just as many Verses of the Bible can easily come across as contradictory to one another. However, in my experience, there is so much more to be gained from approaching learning verses, teachings, and understandings as being paradoxical (seemingly contradictory, but in fact aligned) to one another. They are all somewhat valid, and given greater perspective, can be demonstrated as in alignment.

Thank you for the amazing food for thought! Please keep it coming!

 

[Kam_Fanaian]

My friend

I am off to pick up my son from school, so time is short.

Let me leave you with this food for thought…

Any limitation of time and space is related to the PHYSICAL realm. By physical I mean, what you can see with your eyes today…the sun is needed to provide time, matter is needed to offer space.

In the spiritual realm, there is no sun, or matter. It is made of no substance. The nature of the spirityal realm is not something that can be grasped by the human mind, it takes FAITH that it even exists.

With this information that I have given you, which is my understanding of the Baha’i Writings, I hope you can realise that there are no PHYSICAL human forms in the Fathers realm…its ALL spiritual…and thats all that matters…everything else decomposes, the soul does not and lives eternally in teh Fathers realm

God bless you

Kam

 

[jochoa]

So why so much emphasis on a physical body?

To address this question, please consider the following personal concepts:

In consideration of the previous mention of our understandings being paradoxical, please consider the following:
If you believe that Jesus’ glorified body is spiritual, and in its spiritual being can be touched and can even partake in food, all while his physical earthly body was missing from the tomb…
Then, I am agreement with that understanding of spiritual glorified body, and that is what I desire: To be able to be touched, partake in food, while my physical earthly body is missing from my tomb.

To answer more directly:
I have personally tested the importance of a physical resurrection by testing the limitations of spiritual experiences. Please know, I define spirit as basically the memory of a person. I can explain greater definition if need be. So to test the limitations, I kept my eyes closed and only thought of some of the most amazing experiences imaginable (at least to me). Although it was fun to do, it is no where near the fullness of physical living. Therefore, the importance of a physical resurrection is very high for me!

 

[PRmerger]

Yes I agree that supernatural and natural can co-exist within the confines of God’s creation.

BUT, they cannot exist within the confines of a single entity.

Of course they can. God’s creation IS a single entity. And, as such, you can see that supernatural and natural, metaphysical and physical, can co-exist in a single entity. So just apply that to heaven.

 

[PRmerger]

So why so much emphasis on a physical body?

Kam

Because the Word became Flesh.

Because the body is a temple. It is good. As Pope JPII said, “The body and it alone is capable of making visible what has been invisible, the mystery of the divine since time immemorial”–Theology of the Body.

 

[Kam_Fanaian]

Of course they can. God’s creation IS a single entity. And, as such, you can see that supernatural and natural, metaphysical and physical, can co-exist in a single entity. So just apply that to heaven.

So if everything co-exists on earth AND it co-exists in heaven, then where is heaven?

What is the purpose of heaven?

Why would Jesus go there, rather than stay here? Natural and superatural co-existing in heaven maes it no difference to earth, so why would He go to heaven?

Lastly, in the NT, there is clear distinction between a “natural body” and a “glorified body” yet you are making no distinction in your posts. You say they “co-exist”. Please explain?

Kam

 

[Yab_Yum]

Hello and greetings my fellow brothers an sisters

I am pretty new here, so go easy on me

I would like to know what is the significance of the physical resurrection of Jesus to our lives, as lovers of Jesus?

How would our lives as servants to God be different had Jesus not had a physical resurrection?

Thank you for your attention and God bless.

Kam

The significance of the physical resurrection is that on the physical level love does not die.

 

[fnr]

I would like to know what is the significance of the physical resurrection of Jesus to our lives, as lovers of Jesus?

How would our lives as servants to God be different had Jesus not had a physical resurrection?

Thank you for your attention and God bless.

Kam,

Welcome and God bless you too!

The physical resurrection of Christ, following his PHYSICAL incarnation in the flesh is crucial.

In his Incarnation, Jesus initiated the Kingdom of God, here on earth in a real and physical way. The Jewish people had been waiting for a messiah who would deliver them from control by various empires over time. Many Jews expected one to be like Judas Maccabeus, who defeated the Seleucid empire militarily about 200 years earlier and brought in the Hasmonean Dynasty, the line of Jewish kings who ruled over an powerful and independent Jewish state. And prior to the Hasmoneans, the Jewish people looked back on the glory days of kings David and Solomon, under whom a unified Jewish state had been a major regional power. At the time of Jesus, the Romans had taken over control, interrupted the legitimate line of Hasmonean succession, and the Jews were in a familiar position – waiting for God to save them from the abuse of an alien empire.

We can see the kind of messiah many Jews expected if we look at a man who many declared the messiah after Jesus: Simon ben Kosiba. Revolting against the Romans, he set up an independent kingdom about 100 years after Jesus died. They minted coins in his name as “Simon bar Kokhba” (son of a star). And he was crushed by the Romans.

The Kingdom of God that Christ initiated here on earth (in which we are now living) was different from what Jews had expected. Christ described it as one of love, not of conquest, in his many parables. And Christ’s disciples continued the Kingdom, described in the Acts of the Apostles.

Christ initiated the general resurrection in which everyone experiencing salvation will share, and it is a bodily and physical resurrection. We will be resurrected in physical bodies like he was. Heaven isn’t our final destination, the resurrected Earth is. To illustrate that Biblically, in the end of the Book of Revelation, a metaphorical description of the end of the world, people don’t go up to heaven, the “New Jerusalem” comes down to earth.

When we are resurrected, like Christ, we will be as God intended us – with our bodies and souls reunited.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

The early christian martyrs gave their lives in the coliseums because they believed in the physical resurrection of Jesus.

People with just imagination can imagine the soul or can imagine things spiritual.

Lazarus getting up out of the tomb after four days–well some people had to SEE that.

But Jesus getting up out of the tomb and being able to go through walls and being able to appear and mask His identity at will and yet could still eat physical fish!–well ALOT of people had to SEE that!

And alot of people did for the scriptures say at one point that Jesus appeared to 500!!!

All these things aren’t stories they really HAPPENED!

And it is because of the FACT of the physical resurrection of Jesus in His GLORIFIED body that many christians gave their lives for the faith–that wasn’t the only reason–miraculous cures–disciples speaking in tongues and everyone hearing them in their OWN language!

You can’t FAKE all of that!

And look–in the bible you read about the disciples and followers of Jesus who believed in Him–the PHYSICAL GLORIFIED resurrection of Christ made people that didn’t even like him testify for the TRUTH of all those things by sheer silence!

And Jesus was present in a sacramental REAL body, blood, soul, and divinity way in the Eucharist–the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit made their abode INSIDE of men.

Jesus said “Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe”.

The reason that people that haven’t seen and believe is due to TWO factors–one–the Holy Spirit which reveals such truth to men–and the other reason is the reports of other men in history–such as the 500 who WITNESSED Jesus’ resurrection in his glorified physical body.

REAL, GLORIFIED, TANGIBLE, PHYSICAL, SACRAMENTAL and SPIRITUAL.

Add them all up and what do you get–the greatest ending and beginning of the greatest
Story that was more than just a story!!!

-the truth that Christ died for us and rose for us and INFINITELY redeemed us against the BILLIONS of sins that would ever be committed by man through out all history–each one sin an INFINITE offense against the INFINITE God!

And He didn’t HAVE to do ANY of it but only did it out of the most INFINITE PERFECT love that is so infinite that it can’t be imagined!

No OTHER religion has the TRUE story like that!

Jesus was right–“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me!”

 

[PRmerger]

So if everything co-exists on earth AND it co-exists in heaven, then where is heaven?

Well, the Catholic answer is that it’s at the Mass.

What is the purpose of heaven?

So that the One Flesh Union can be actualized, and not just an icon.

Why would Jesus go there, rather than stay here?

There is no such thing, in Catholic theology, of Jesus being “there” rather than “here”.

It’s like the proverbial question: Can God be here and there at the same time? No. Why? Because he’s already there.

Natural and superatural co-existing in heaven maes it no difference to earth, so why would He go to heaven?

Because that’s where He is.