The importance of a physical resurrection

[Kam_Fanaian]

I had forgotten somewhat about this thread…if I may I will “resurrect” it (excuse the pun . )

Is there anything in Scripture that indicates which represents the true identity of man? His soul or his body?

Hopefully, this will direct this thread towards the true crux of what the word “resurrection” means…

Why does Catholicism place so much emphasis in the physical body, when it is not the “Godly” side of our nature?

Thanks

Kam

 

[PRmerger]

I had forgotten somewhat about this thread…if I may I will “resurrect” it (excuse the pun . )

Is there anything in Scripture that indicates which represents the true identity of man? His soul or his body?

Genesis 2:7 tells us that body and soul are truly one. There is no either/or in Catholicism, as it applies to whether the true identity of man is body OR soul. It is a composite.

Why does Catholicism place so much emphasis in the physical body, when it is not the “Godly” side of our nature?

The body is good. When Scriptures describes the ungodly part of us, it references “the flesh”.

“The human body shares in the dignity of “the image of God”: it is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul, and it is the whole human person that is intended to become, in the body of Christ, a temple of the Spirit:”–CCC 364

 

[Kam_Fanaian]

Genesis 2:7 tells us that body and soul are truly one. There is no either/or in Catholicism, as it applies to whether the true identity of man is body OR soul. It is a composite.

The body is good. When Scriptures describes the ungodly part of us, it references “the flesh”.

“The human body shares in the dignity of “the image of God”: it is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul, and it is the whole human person that is intended to become, in the body of Christ, a temple of the Spirit:”–CCC 364

From D-R Genesis 2:7 reads “And the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul.”

This verse does not EQUATE body and soul. It clearly distinguishes man’s twin nature, the body being like slime, and the “breath of life” being the soul. Yes, on earth, we have a twin nature, however it clearly identifies the reverence and majestic magnificence of the soul in comparison to the slime of the body.

Why then is your return to your body so critical?

Living as the soul without the body is to rid ourselves from the slime and to live eternally in God.

Everyone on earth has a body, but what makes you unique in God’s eyes is that your soul has recognized the Divinity of Jesus. Why would you need your body if your soul is capable of such profound things?

Kam

Kam

 

[PRmerger]

From D-R Genesis 2:7 reads “And the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul.”

This verse does not EQUATE body and soul. It clearly distinguishes man’s twin nature, the body being like slime, and the “breath of life” being the soul. Yes, on earth, we have a twin nature, however it clearly identifies the reverence and majestic magnificence of the soul in comparison to the slime of the body.

Of course it does. It says that we have a body AND a soul. We are both, at once, corporeal and spiritual.

Why then is your return to your body so critical?

I don’t understand the question. Return to our body when? At the end of time?

Living as the soul without the body is to rid ourselves from the slime and to live eternally in God.

The body is sublime and beautiful, Kam. We were made out of the slime of the earth, but once we receive the Spirit of God, it becomes divinized.

Everyone on earth has a body, but what makes you unique in God’s eyes is that your soul has recognized the Divinity of Jesus.

Is this your belief? Or are you trying to say this is what Catholicism proclaims? If it’s the latter, that is not a correct expository on Catholic teaching.

 

[GEddie]

This verse does not EQUATE body and soul. It clearly distinguishes man’s twin nature, the body being like slime, and the “breath of life” being the soul…,. Why would you need your body if your soul is capable of such profound things?

Because you are nOt a spirit. Full stop.

You were never designed to be one. Your body is what makes you someBODY!

Our bodies are not slime, although their substance resembles such. But the substance as well as the form will, in the Eternal life, be glorified. We are presently a glorified animal; in the future, we will see not pure spirit, but the glorified, moving, breathing human being.

The breath of life requires a breather. Our soul is capable of profoundness because it is piggybacked onto the amazing life-holder that is our soma.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Kam_Fanaian]

Hi GEddie,

Where do souls go then when they die BEFORE the Day of Resurrection?

Heaven?

Where is heaven? The PHYSICAL place that Jesus currently resides? Or the spiritual place that our souls go to?

Kam

 

[PRmerger]

Hi GEddie,

Where do souls go then when they die BEFORE the Day of Resurrection?

Heaven?

Where is heaven? The PHYSICAL place that Jesus currently resides? Or the spiritual place that our souls go to?

Kam

It’s a META-physical place, Kam, where souls go upon our death.

 

[teeboy]

Displayed the power of God.

It gives us hope of our bodily ressurection.

 

[Kam_Fanaian]

It’s a META-physical place, Kam, where souls go upon our death.

How is that consistent with the PHYSICAL place that Jesus currently resides in?

The NASA photographs I was presented with in this thread were certainly not META-physical?

I’m totally confused here…

Kam

 

[kentuckyliz]

Christ’s resurrection and glorification in the body fill me with hope and joy, even as I age, even as I struggle with arthritis, even as I wage my wars with cancer. (Beaten three so far.)

Someday I will have a glorified and resurrected body, perfect, no scars, no disease, perfectly subject to my will, no sin, perfected.

I don’t want to be just a spirit. That’s not good enough.

 

[GEddie]

Christ’s resurrection and glorification in the body fill me with hope and joy, even as I age, even as I struggle with arthritis, even as I wage my wars with cancer. (Beaten three so far.)

Someday I will have a glorified and resurrected body, perfect, no scars, no disease, perfectly subject to my will, no sin, perfected.

I don’t want to be just a spirit. That’s not good enough.

Amen!!!



ICXC NIKA

 

[jochoa]

How is that consistent with the PHYSICAL place that Jesus currently resides in?

The NASA photographs I was presented with in this thread were certainly not META-physical?

I’m totally confused here…

Kam

My friend, please take care not to present my personal concepts as approved Catholic Teachings. I share personal understandings which I have personally analyzed and interpreted which I have found, and personally ensured, are in alignment with Writings of the Catholic Church. On that note, I ask that they be presented and understood as personal concepts. Concepts which cannot be shared as Catholic Teachings, until they are validated by the Authority of the Church.

Please recognize that one of the struggles in this conversation is that you were initially asking perspectives of Lovers of Jesus, and not the Catholic Teaching. In other words, you were asking for personal understandings we each have. Then in the midst of the discussion, you may be accidentally confusing presentations of personal concepts with Catholic Teachings.

Here are some of the Teaching of the Catholic Church regarding physical resurrection, taken from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p122a5p2.htm

The condition of Christ’s risen humanity

645 By means of touch and the sharing of a meal, the risen Jesus establishes direct contact with his disciples. He invites them in this way to recognize that he is not a ghost and above all to verify that the risen body in which he appears to them is the same body that had been tortured and crucified, for it still bears the traces of his Passion.509 Yet at the same time this authentic, real body possesses the new properties of a glorious body: not limited by space and time but able to be present how and when he wills; for Christ’s humanity can no longer be confined to earth, and belongs henceforth only to the Father’s divine realm.510 For this reason too the risen Jesus enjoys the sovereign freedom of appearing as he wishes: in the guise of a gardener or in other forms familiar to his disciples, precisely to awaken their faith.511

646 Christ’s Resurrection was not a return to earthly life, as was the case with the raisings from the dead that he had performed before Easter: Jairus’ daughter, the young man of Naim, Lazarus. These actions were miraculous events, but the persons miraculously raised returned by Jesus’ power to ordinary earthly life. At some particular moment they would die again. Christ’s Resurrection is essentially different. In his risen body he passes from the state of death to another life beyond time and space. At Jesus’ Resurrection his body is filled with the power of the Holy Spirit: he shares the divine life in his glorious state, so that St. Paul can say that Christ is “the man of heaven”.512

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a11.htm

990 The term “flesh” refers to man in his state of weakness and mortality.536 The “resurrection of the flesh” (the literal formulation of the Apostles’ Creed) means not only that the immortal soul will live on after death, but that even our “mortal body” will come to life again.537

 

[Kam_Fanaian]

Christ’s resurrection and glorification in the body fill me with hope and joy, even as I age, even as I struggle with arthritis, even as I wage my wars with cancer. (Beaten three so far.)

Someday I will have a glorified and resurrected body, perfect, no scars, no disease, perfectly subject to my will, no sin, perfected.

I don’t want to be just a spirit. That’s not good enough.

First of all, you are in my prayers (if that means anything to you, in that I will recite Baha’i prayers for you, but I will also recite the Lords prayer for you too )

My question for you is, why is being just a spirit good enough for you?

Your soul is the source of all that is pure in your deeds.

Anyone can perform good deeds, anyone with a physical body that is (even devout atheists) …but only your soul is responsible for the pure intentions behind those deeds…isn’t that the essence of all that is good and pure with your identity.

God judges you on the purity of your deeds (which originates from the soul), not the deeds themselves.

So why deny the spirit? Why is it not good enough for you?

And why should I want to keep my physical body after death?

God bless you

Kam

 

[PRmerger]

How is that consistent with the PHYSICAL place that Jesus currently resides in?

The NASA photographs I was presented with in this thread were certainly not META-physical?

I’m totally confused here…

Kam

What makes you say that they were not meta-physical? What is your understanding of meta-physical?

 

[Kam_Fanaian]

My friend, please take care not to present my personal concepts as approved Catholic Teachings. I share personal understandings which I have personally analyzed and interpreted which I have found, and personally ensured, are in alignment with Writings of the Catholic Church. On that note, I ask that they be presented and understood as personal concepts. Concepts which cannot be shared as Catholic Teachings, until they are validated by the Authority of the Church.

Please recognize that one of the struggles in this conversation is that you were initially asking perspectives of Lovers of Jesus, and not the Catholic Teaching. In other words, you were asking for personal understandings we each have. Then in the midst of the discussion, you may be accidentally confusing presentations of personal concepts with Catholic Teachings.

Here are some of the Teaching of the Catholic Church regarding physical resurrection, taken from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p122a5p2.htm

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a11.htm

Jochoa, my good friend.

I am well aware that the NASA diagram that you provided were your own thoughts on this matter. I certainly did not see that diagram in the Catechism myself!

However, what I did ask is the fact that you have obviously assigned heaven (where Jesus currently resides) as a PHYSICAL place, where that is, is irrelevant.

Now PRmerger says that it is a META-physical place.

Can you appreciate the confusion??

Maybe you and PRmerger should PM each other so that you can get a correct understanding and then you can enlighten me further.

There is simply too much confusion. Is it not confusing for others reading this thread?

Kam

 

[Kam_Fanaian]

What makes you say that they were not meta-physical? What is your understanding of meta-physical?

merriam-webster.com/dictionary/metaphysical

• beyond the perception of senses
• pertaining to the spiritual world

What’s your understanding?

Kam

 

[GEddie]

First of all, you are in my prayers (if that means anything to you, in that I will recite Baha’i prayers for you, but I will also recite the Lords prayer for you too )

My question for you is, why is being just a spirit good enough for you?

Your soul is the source of all that is pure in your deeds.

Anyone can perform good deeds, anyone with a physical body that is (even devout atheists) …but only your soul is responsible for the pure intentions behind those deeds…isn’t that the essence of all that is good and pure with your identity.

God judges you on the purity of your deeds (which originates from the soul), not the deeds themselves.

So why deny the spirit? Why is it not good enough for you?

And why should I want to keep my physical body after death?

God bless you

Kam

I don’t deny the spirit, but have zero desire to be one!

I want to keep on moving, seeing, smelling etc. for that, I need my limbs, eyes, and nose.

Even knowing and remembering requires a working human head.

So giving all that up to become a ball of nothing without external being is not at all desirable to me.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Kam_Fanaian]

I don’t deny the spirit, but have zero desire to be one!

I want to keep on moving, seeing, smelling etc. for that, I need my limbs, eyes, and nose.

Even knowing and remembering requires a working human head.

So giving all that up to become a ball of nothing without external being is not at all desirable to me.

ICXC NIKA.

If I may offer you some suggestions on what your spirit is capable of, youwould desire nothing else.

The descriptions of the nature of the soul presented in the Bible have been built upon and fulfilled tremendously by the Revelation of Baha’u’llah.

However, as a Catholic you may not be permitted to read His Writings, for fear of being swindled by the devil, so I need to let you do your own battle for that salvationary knowledge…

I can assure you, I CANNOT WAIT to continue and advance in my journey towards God as a soul

Kam

Kam

 

[GEddie]

If I may offer you some suggestions on what your spirit is capable of, youwould desire nothing else.

The descriptions of the nature of the soul presented in the Bible have been built upon and fulfilled tremendously by the Revelation of Baha’u’llah.

However, as a Catholic you may not be permitted to read His Writings, for fear of being swindled by the devil, so I need to let you do your own battle for that salvationary knowledge…

I can assure you, I CANNOT WAIT to continue and advance in my journey towards God as a soul

Kam

Kam

Fine, mon ami, we can agree to disagree.

ICXC NIKA

 

[PRmerger]

However, what I did ask is the fact that you have obviously assigned heaven (where Jesus currently resides) as a PHYSICAL place, where that is, is irrelevant.

Now PRmerger says that it is a META-physical place.

Can you appreciate the confusion??

Not really.

Do you understand how supernatural and natural can co-exist?

Then you should be able to understand that metaphysical and physical realities, too, can co-exist.

I think, perhaps, you are feigning this obtusity, yes?