The importance of immigration

  • Thread starter Thread starter YourNameHere
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Annie said:
But I meant the opposite of open borders, which you think letting anyone in is the opposite of, which I find completely bemusing.
Click to expand...
You are not alone in your amusement. I am amused by the irony that I become the free-market, economically conservative, pro-business guy on this topic. But then, we have been let China gain on us economically using their powerful labor force. If we fall, as we become more and more the human rights villains on the world stage, maybe they will become less as they rise.

I guess Trump’s friendship with Kim might be preparing in case he needs a new job in a year or two.
 
Pup7 said:
This problem is being dumped on the taxpayer equivalent of a front porch.
Click to expand...
It doesn’t have to be, and it is not as much as most people think it is. In fact, what Trump is doing is more costly. Those that work, even illegally, pay taxes. Allow them to work legally, and they can pay taxes commensurate with their cost. If that is too much, then they can go back. Consumption tax and property tax have the advantage of insuring every one pays something.
brishen said:
this makes me sick…you know what “wop” means? “With out papers.” That’s what we used to call italians. How dare people be so cruel to mexicans trying to do the same thing?
Click to expand...
Historically, hasn’t there always been such a people? It seems the more nationalism rises, so does the need for a despised people. The Italians and Eastern Europeans all had a turn. Then, of course, there was the Irish, everyone’s favorite people to hate, first the British who killed them in the hundred’s of thousands, then the Americans, who killed even more in the Civil War. Then, like all veterans who are used and abused in war, they were not, as a people treated as human beings with equal dignity.

If we did not have illegal immigration, I am sure that the current swell of nationalism would have found some target for hate and bigotry.
 
Last edited:
Amusement and bemusement are not the same. I am the latter.

I guess you just don’t want to answer my question.
 
An open border means letting anyone in, no immigration rules, just if you can get here, you can stay.

You wrote: I don think anyone advocates for open borders. Welcoming illegal immigrants, say by letting them be legal, is not the same as an open border. It is quite the opposite.

To me what you wrote seems contradictory. My question is can you explain the contradiction? How is letting anyone in and giving them all a path to citizenship different from letting anyone who gets in stay? Aside from your suggestion that they also be given citizenship if they want it.
 
Last edited:
Correct me if I’m missing something, but the USCCB has called for permanent residency, not citizenship as per this document:
http://www.usccb.org/about/migration-policy/justice-for-immigrants.cfm

So, I’ll adjust my original question: Are you advocating a path to permanent residence (called for by the USCCB), or are you calling for a “just path to citizenship”? If the latter, can you explain what is your idea of a “just path to citizenship”?
 
Annie said:
To me what you wrote seems contradictory. My question is can you explain the contradiction? How is letting anyone in and giving them all a path to citizenship different from letting anyone who gets in stay?
Click to expand...
I do not believe in letting anyone in. There are people who should never be permitted entry. What I would like to see, is letting people in based on criteria, not quota. One such criteria would be working and paying a tax to support the services they use. I mean it is the opposite of an open border because such a welcoming stance, and one that is easy for honest workers to use, would make the border more secure, as we would have records and tracking of people that enter.
Pup7 said:
It’s ultimately paid by the taxpayer.
Click to expand...
Most of them are taxpayers.

It is of interest that most of the services used, such as roads schools, emergency medical access, are funded through consumption taxes. But I am a big believer everyone should pay taxes.
 
Last edited:
pnewton said:
It doesn’t have to be, and it is not as much as most people think it is. In fact, what Trump is doing is more costly. Those that work, even illegally, pay taxes. Allow them to work legally, and they can pay taxes commensurate with their cost. If that is too much, then they can go back. Consumption tax and property tax have the advantage of insuring every one pays something.
Click to expand...
Exactly whom do you think foots the bill for illegal immigration?

It’s ultimately paid by the taxpayer.
 
Last edited:
KMC said:
Correct me if I’m missing something, but the USCCB has called for permanent residency, not citizenship as per this document:
http://www.usccb.org/about/migration-policy/justice-for-immigrants.cfm

So, I’ll adjust my original question: Are you advocating a path to permanent residence (called for by the USCCB), or are you calling for a “just path to citizenship”? If the latter, can you explain what is your idea of a “just path to citizenship”?
Click to expand...
I am totally against just granting citizenship myself.

My husband came here legally, married to an American citizen. They didn’t offer him citizenship and won’t for twenty years. Completely and utterly unfair to just hand over citizenship. Thousands have applied - or have been here legally as LPRs for years - and won’t get it just handed to them. They either have to ask or wait for it to be offered automatically.

It’s also unfair to just hand over lawful permanent resident status. We have people in the queue for that who have been doing it correctly and have been waiting for years.

Absolutely not on both counts.

Grant a leave to enter or a temporary visa. Then apply like everyone else. That’s a “just path”. It’s the one that already exists.

Just my two cents.
 
Last edited:
pnewton said:
Most of them are taxpayers.
Click to expand...
They are not Federal taxpayers. They cannot be. Sales tax and property tax don’t foot the bill. Federal tax revenue does.

Weird that that was quoted before I even said it.
 
Last edited:
I agree. My wife is an immigrant and her family followed the law. She is now a citizen.

The idea that someone who cuts in line or breaks the law to enter should get some kind of benefit for doing so, does not seem right. I agree with some kind of temporary visa, and the just path to permanent residency means getting in line with those who follow the law.
 
An open border would be considered welcoming in that we allow people in, so I still don’t understand that.

Overall, I think you have some interesting, thought-out ideas there.
 
Nice 9gag meme but the amount of money the government takes to enforce border security is far less than the amount required to support tens of millions of welfare leaches. (Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
I will say that I agree but my mind was changed on implementation by Brother JReducation, whose background had given him insight to the matter. It’s like the parable of the workers in the vineyard. The workers who had been there all day were bummed out because they received the same pay as those who had arrived later in the day.

As long as we receive what is just in our individual case, does it matter that others receive more?
 
Pup7 said:
They are not Federal taxpayers. They cannot be. Sales tax and property tax don’t foot the bill. Federal tax revenue does.
Click to expand...
Right. They neither pay into, or can receive federal services, as a rule. However, remember that we have many Americans that also pay no federal income tax. But we will be slipping from the immigration to fair tax. I am just saying, the do pay taxes. I think the idea of a flat guest work tax for federal expense totally acceptable, though not a very high one, as most federal taxes go to the debt, the military and entitlements, which do not constitute services immigrants cost us.

Sales tax and property taxes do foot the bill of most local services ( the ones actually used), at least in my state they do.
 
Last edited:
Yes - when you have played the immigration game, and I have, of course it does.

Is it fair when you work somewhere for ten years and find out that a brand new employee in your same position with equal education and no experience makes more per hour than you do? No, it isn’t.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top