The incomplete Gospel

[paul_c]

On these pages, there are often discussions started by Evangelicals / Protestants that claim that we Catholics teach a different Gospel from them. Well, I would like to discuss a different hypothesis, that the Protestants/ Evangelicals actually teach AN INCOMPLETE GOSPEL in comparison with the Catholic Church, which has the fullness of truth. Of course, depending on the closeness of their teaching to the Catholic Church, different denomination’s Gospels are more or less incomplete.

Here’s my proof points for discussion:

1. Protestants can not show that they do a single thing that Catholics don’t also do toward their salvation. And here’s an open challenge to any that question this statement: give us an example of what you do that Catholics don’t also do. I started a thread that reached 200 posts and not one person claimed they did something that Catholics don’t also do. In fact, many Evangelicals countered that there wasn’t anything to do for Salvation, because Christ did all the work.

1. Everyone can identify things that Catholics do toward salvation that Protestants don’t also do, starting with the 7 sacraments and extending to devotions like eucharistic adoration, the stations on the cross, rosaries, novenas, etc. But no one has been able to show that any of these things are detrimental to the soul. Some said they were not required to be saved, but its hard to argue that confessing your sins to a priest, going to mass, or praying a rosary could in any way harm your soul.
2. When you talk about core beliefs, the Protestant views are typically truncated views of what Catholics teach.
   a) Protestants teach sola scriptura, Catholics include Sacred Tradition and the views of the Magesterium as valid truths
   b) Protestants teach Sola Fide, while Catholics say that Faith must be completed with works of love to gain eternal life
   c) Protestants believe in the priesthood of the people. Catholics believe that priests must be validly ordained by a Bishop who is part of apostolic succession.
   d) Protestant’s believe that you must develop a faithful relationship with Jesus Christ, Catholics say not only do you need to develop such a relationship, but you must also follow in his footsteps, loving God and Neighbor to achieve eternal life.
   e) Protestants say that you must repent of your sins, Catholics believe that you must do this sacramentally to regain saving grace.

And so it goes, Protestants/ Evangelicals consistently preach a truncated Gospel, requiring less than the Catholic Church teaches.

Now to be sure, there are individual Protestants / Evangelicals who do more than their church expects of them and thus approach what a devout Catholic does (except they don’t partake of valid sacraments) and this is not to condemn anyone.

I simply want to point out that the Protestant Gospel is just an incomplete version of the one true Gospel. Can anyone really counter this with examples of what Protestants do that the Catholics don’t also do?

 

[Mick_Taylor]

On these pages, there are often discussions started by Evangelicals / Protestants that claim that we Catholics teach a different Gospel from them. Well, I would like to discuss a different hypothesis, that the Protestants/ Evangelicals actually teach AN INCOMPLETE GOSPEL in comparison with the Catholic Church, which has the fullness of truth. Of course, depending on the closeness of their teaching to the Catholic Church, different denomination’s Gospels are more or less incomplete.

I simply want to point out that the Protestant Gospel is just an incomplete version of the one true Gospel. Can anyone really counter this with examples of what Protestants do that the Catholics don’t also do?

Hi Paul C,

The word “gospel” means, “good news” and the good news can’t be appreciated without the bad news. The bad news can be found in numerous passages that clearly teach that we are sinners who do not deserve salvation. Mark 10:17-27 is one of the best and clearest teachings of the bad news and it ends with the good news that, although perfect righteousness is impossible for mankind to achieve, with God all things are possible. He is righteous even though we are not, He is faithful, and we are not, etc.

The good news is that salvation isn’t even about our goodness, it is all about the goodness of God in Jesus Christ, who became sin for us, so that we can be found spotless in Him, by grace…if we trust in Him, and in Him alone.

The rich young ruler thought he was a righteous man. Jesus showed him that he was a sinner who was strongly attached to his wealth. All of us have certain worldly attachments that separate us from God. Only the grace of God can set us free from our flesh, and cause us to want Jesus.

By the content of your post, it seems as though you view salvation in terms very similar to that rich young ruler in Mark 10. In reality, there is no “Catholic” or “Protestant” good news. The biblical good news (the gospel) is not about a particular religious dogma or dogmas, it is that eternal life is found in no one except Jesus Christ. To trust in a religious institution for your salvation is to accept Christ on your own terms. Accepting a so-called “gospel” on your own terms is to reject the biblical gospel and that, of course leads to death.

 

[Della]

Hi Paul C,

The word “gospel” means, “good news” and the good news can’t be appreciated without the bad news. The bad news can be found in numerous passages that clearly teach that we are sinners who do not deserve salvation. Mark 10:17-27 is one of the best and clearest teachings of the bad news and it ends with the good news that, although perfect righteousness is impossible for mankind to achieve, with God all things are possible. He is righteous even though we are not, He is faithful, and we are not, etc.

The good news is that salvation isn’t even about our goodness, it is all about the goodness of God in Jesus Christ, who became sin for us, so that we can be found spotless in Him, by grace…if we trust in Him, and in Him alone.

The rich young ruler thought he was a righteous man. Jesus showed him that he was a sinner who was strongly attached to his wealth. All of us have certain worldly attachments that separate us from God. Only the grace of God can set us free from our flesh, and cause us to want Jesus.

By the content of your post, it seems as though you view salvation in terms very similar to that rich young ruler in Mark 10. In reality, there is no “Catholic” or “Protestant” good news. The biblical good news (the gospel) is not about a particular religious dogma or dogmas, it is that eternal life is found in no one except Jesus Christ. To trust in a religious institution for your salvation is to accept Christ on your own terms. Accepting a so-called “gospel” on your own terms is to reject the biblical gospel and that, of course leads to death.

Oh but you do follow after doctrines. You just don’t call them that–in your own words:

1. although perfect righteousness is impossible for mankind to achieve…
2. with God all things are possible.
3. He is righteous even though we are not, He is faithful, and we are not, etc.
4. The good news is that salvation isn’t even about our goodness, it is all about the goodness of God in Jesus Christ.
5. Jesus Christ, who became sin for us, so that we can be found spotless in Him, by grace.
6. we trust in Him, and in Him alone.
7. Only the grace of God can set us free from our flesh, and cause us to want Jesus.
8. eternal life is found in no one except Jesus Christ.
9. To trust in a religious institution for your salvation is to accept Christ on your own terms.
10. Accepting a so-called “gospel” on your own terms is to reject the biblical gospel and that, of course leads to death.

You’re made up your own 10 Commandments right here. And not all of them are correct, but merely what you’ve been told according to someone’s interpretation.
You didn’t come up with these ideas on your own. You’re following the men who told you these things–who pointed out verses in the Bible and said, “This is what it means.” What you have to ask yourself is: “Do these men have the authority to tell me what the Bible means.” If they don’t, you might find you are following the mere teachings of men instead of those of Christ.

 

[Mick_Taylor]

Oh but you do follow after doctrines. You just don’t call them that–in your own words:

1. although perfect righteousness is impossible for mankind to achieve…
2. with God all things are possible.
3. He is righteous even though we are not, He is faithful, and we are not, etc.
4. The good news is that salvation isn’t even about our goodness, it is all about the goodness of God in Jesus Christ.
5. Jesus Christ, who became sin for us, so that we can be found spotless in Him, by grace.
6. we trust in Him, and in Him alone.
7. Only the grace of God can set us free from our flesh, and cause us to want Jesus.
8. eternal life is found in no one except Jesus Christ.
9. To trust in a religious institution for your salvation is to accept Christ on your own terms.
10. Accepting a so-called “gospel” on your own terms is to reject the biblical gospel and that, of course leads to death.

You’re made up your own 10 Commandments right here. And not all of them are correct, but merely what you’ve been told according to someone’s interpretation.
You didn’t come up with these ideas on your own. You’re following the men who told you these things–who pointed out verses in the Bible and said, “This is what it means.” What you have to ask yourself is: “Do these men have the authority to tell me what the Bible means.” If they don’t, you might find you are following the mere teachings of men instead of those of Christ.

Hi Della,

True, I do believe certain doctrines, but not because of some ‘infallible’ religious leader, or some ‘infallible’ organization, but because of God’s grace. In my past, as an atheist, I was living in my flesh and for my flesh. But when the grace of God appeared in my life, God caused me to be receptive to the truth found in His Holy Word for my salvation. To answer your question, all of God’s servants have the authority to teach the things that God has shown them by the power of His Spirit. All who have been saved are saved to do good works that have been prepared for them (saved people) to do. If any of the things I believe are incorrect, I would be happy to be corrected. I’m still learning, and I’m certainly not infallible!

 

[paul_c]

Hi Paul C,

The word “gospel” means, “good news” and the good news can’t be appreciated without the bad news. The bad news can be found in numerous passages that clearly teach that we are sinners who do not deserve salvation. Mark 10:17-27 is one of the best and clearest teachings of the bad news and it ends with the good news that, although perfect righteousness is impossible for mankind to achieve, with God all things are possible. He is righteous even though we are not, He is faithful, and we are not, etc.

The good news is that salvation isn’t even about our goodness, it is all about the goodness of God in Jesus Christ, who became sin for us, so that we can be found spotless in Him, by grace…if we trust in Him, and in Him alone.

The rich young ruler thought he was a righteous man. Jesus showed him that he was a sinner who was strongly attached to his wealth. All of us have certain worldly attachments that separate us from God. Only the grace of God can set us free from our flesh, and cause us to want Jesus.

By the content of your post, it seems as though you view salvation in terms very similar to that rich young ruler in Mark 10. In reality, there is no “Catholic” or “Protestant” good news. The biblical good news (the gospel) is not about a particular religious dogma or dogmas, it is that eternal life is found in no one except Jesus Christ. To trust in a religious institution for your salvation is to accept Christ on your own terms. Accepting a so-called “gospel” on your own terms is to reject the biblical gospel and that, of course leads to death.

Mick,
I agree that there is one Gospel, the question is what does it entail. Is it as you suggest, a statement that Jesus will save us or is it as we Catholics say, a call to follow Jesus and truly become holy? You see, when the rich young ruler asked what it took to gain eternal life, Jesus said to follow the commandments and then he demanded even more of him: to sell all he had and follow Jesus. But you see, this doesn’t limit what was required, it adds to it. It doesn’t say that Jesus will do everything. It says that we have to do our part and follow him if we want eternal life. It takes much more than just faith. It takes love for both God and Neighbor and that starts with Grace and Faith, but certainly doesn’t end there. That’s what I mean about an incomplete Gospel: it contains only part of the truth.

You are critical of following a religious institution for our salvation and claim that doing so is to accept Christ on your own terms. I would say the situation is just the opposite. We trust in the Church Christ founded to teach us the truth and to administer the grace filled sacraments. You on the other hand, trust your own interpretation of the bible. Isn’t that the definition of accepting Christ on your own terms? If it doesn’t sound right to you, you don’t believe it, right?

 

[paul_c]

Hi Della,

True, I do believe certain doctrines, but not because of some ‘infallible’ religious leader, or some ‘infallible’ organization, but because of God’s grace. In my past, as an atheist, I was living in my flesh and for my flesh. But when the grace of God appeared in my life, God caused me to be receptive to the truth found in His Holy Word for my salvation. To answer your question, all of God’s servants have the authority to teach the things that God has shown them by the power of His Spirit. All who have been saved are saved to do good works that have been prepared for them (saved people) to do. If any of the things I believe are incorrect, I would be happy to be corrected. I’m still learning, and I’m certainly not infallible!

Mick, believe it or not, you are on a very common trajectory. First , by the grace of God, you become receptive to Jesus’ message. Often that comes through an evangelical church. Then you are led here, where you get the rest of the message. Take advantage of the opportunity to learn it all.

Most of what you have said above, we would recognize as correct. All the saved HAVE been saved to do the good works prepared for them. But the saved have free will and they can use it to fall from the state of Grace. God, through his love for us, does not force us to do his will. He allows us to come to him freely or to forsake him. Those that love him truly, will do his works and will enter into eternal life. Those that don’t will be condemned. And make no mistake about it, Jesus calls everyone to him. Not everyone responds positively. This is a reflection on the person, who will be judged accordingly, not a measure of Jesus’s love for each individual. Afterall, the sun shines on the good and the bad alike.

I realize that many people have difficulty initially in accepting all the Church’s teachings. But in reality, it was set up by Jesus to do that very job and he insures that it does it accurately. Remember, this is the commission to the Apostles, who represent the church in Matthew 28: 18-20:
18 Then Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age

And really, you are currently completely reliant on the bible for what you know about Jesus and that is a teaching tool developed by the Catholic church. If it wasn’t reliable, why would you trust the bible, its product?

 

[Mick_Taylor]

Mick,
I agree that there is one Gospel, the question is what does it entail. Is it as you suggest, a statement that Jesus will save us or is it as we Catholics say, a call to follow Jesus and truly become holy? You see, when the rich young ruler asked what it took to gain eternal life, Jesus said to follow the commandments and then he demanded even more of him: to sell all he had and follow Jesus.

Hi Paul C,

I disagree. Jesus didn’t add on any new additional commandments, Jesus was instead showing the rich man that he had not kept the very first commandment, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.”

The rich young man didn’t realize that his love of money had taken the place of God over his life–money had become his god. There is not a single one of us that perfectly keeps all ten of the commandments, and if we break just one, we have the same guilt in God’s sight, as though we had broken all of them.

But you see, this doesn’t limit what was required, it adds to it. It doesn’t say that Jesus will do everything. It says that we have to do our part and follow him if we want eternal life. It takes much more than just faith. It takes love for both God and Neighbor and that starts with Grace and Faith, but certainly doesn’t end there. That’s what I mean about an incomplete Gospel: it contains only part of the truth.

Sinse we are all lawbreakers, who then, can be saved? Isn’t this the central matter laid before us in the text of Mark 10 concerning the rich man and his question? Jesus said, “with man, this is impossible. But with God, all things are possible.”

You are critical of following a religious institution for our salvation and claim that doing so is to accept Christ on your own terms. I would say the situation is just the opposite. We trust in the Church Christ founded to teach us the truth and to administer the grace filled sacraments. You on the other hand, trust your own interpretation of the bible. Isn’t that the definition of accepting Christ on your own terms? If it doesn’t sound right to you, you don’t believe it, right?

All of us are sinners in Adam, and we would continue to live in our flesh and follow it wherever it leads, which ultimeately is death. But by grace, God wills to call those whom He has chosen out of darkness and into the light of His truth. If not for His wonderful grace, I would still be accepting ‘truth’ on my own terms and thus remain in darkness. There is no religion that can be a substitute for faith in the completed work of Jesus.

 

[paul_c]

Hi Paul C,

I disagree. Jesus didn’t add on any new additional commandments, Jesus was instead showing the rich man that he had not kept the very first commandment, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.”

The rich young man didn’t realize that his love of money had taken the place of God over his life–money had become his god. There is not a single one of us that perfectly keeps all ten of the commandments, and if we break just one, we have the same guilt in God’s sight, as though we had broken all of them.

Sure, Jesus pointed out to him that his possessions were more important to him than Jesus was. But the point is not that all men are sinners and that there is nothing for them to do but to believe in Jesus. More was asked of the rich man than just belief, was it not? He was told to follow the commandments and as you pointed out, he wasn’t doing that as well as he could. But action IS required, not just belief. And in fact, love is required.

Sinse we are all lawbreakers, who then, can be saved? Isn’t this the central matter laid before us in the text of Mark 10 concerning the rich man and his question? Jesus said, “with man, this is impossible. But with God, all things are possible.”

All of us are sinners in Adam, and we would continue to live in our flesh and follow it wherever it leads, which ultimeately is death. But by grace, God wills to call those whom He has chosen out of darkness and into the light of His truth. If not for His wonderful grace, I would still be accepting ‘truth’ on my own terms and thus remain in darkness. There is no religion that can be a substitute for faith in the completed work of Jesus.

Right, we need to follow Jesus. That is the point. Not only believe in him, but FOLLOW him. That is the part of the Gospel that you are missing. Our positive response to his saving grace is requried to attain eternal life. That is what God requires. Lip service is insufficient.

 

[Mick_Taylor]

I realize that many people have difficulty initially in accepting all the Church’s teachings. But in reality, it was set up by Jesus to do that very job and he insures that it does it accurately. Remember, this is the commission to the Apostles, who represent the church in Matthew 28: 18-20:

And really, you are currently completely reliant on the bible for what you know about Jesus and that is a teaching tool developed by the Catholic church. If it wasn’t reliable, why would you trust the bible, its product?

The bible doesn’t tell us that it is a teaching tool of the CC, so how did you come to know that the church established by Jesus is the Catholic Church? Did you accept it by your own reason, from the thorough study of history, or was there something else that led you to know which church is the correct one? Is it possible that parts of the bible pre-date the church?

 

[Poetess_Kera]

The bible doesn’t tell us that it is a teaching tool of the CC, so how did you come to know that the church established by Jesus is the Catholic Church? Did you accept it by your own reason, from the thorough study of history, or was there something else that led you to know which church is the correct one? Is it possible that parts of the bible pre-date the church?

The Bible came out of the Church. Saint Paul writes in many letters that he is happy that people are following the traditions that have been handed down, both oral and written. Saint John mentions that Jesus did many things that were never written down. The Magisterium, guided by the Holy Spirit, assembled the Bible into what we have today, with 73 books, not 66; Martin Luther pulled seven books from the Bible because they supported Catholic doctrines such as prayers for the dead, intercessory prayer, and Purgatory.

If you would like someone to help you discern truth and lead you to Jesus’ true Church, I would be more than happy to help you look at Catholic doctrines, explain them, and show you how they are thoroughly supported by Scripture. Feel free to PM me if you’d like! I used to be a Protestant (Southern Baptist) before I did some research and God led me to His Church, so I’m very eager to help others on this same journey.

 

[NHInsider]

Is it possible that parts of the bible pre-date the church?

No. The Church began when Jesus sent the 72 disciples out to preach, was established when He breathed the Holy Spirit into the Apostles, and started its mission on Pentecost. The earliest books of the New Testament (Paul’s letters to the churches at Galatia and Thessalonica) weren’t written for another 20 years. The very fact that there were churches to which to address the letters sort of answers the question . . .

 

[paul_c]

The bible doesn’t tell us that it is a teaching tool of the CC, so how did you come to know that the church established by Jesus is the Catholic Church? Did you accept it by your own reason, from the thorough study of history, or was there something else that led you to know which church is the correct one? Is it possible that parts of the bible pre-date the church?

Well, the old testament all predates the church, but the church is older than any book of the new testament. And yes, this is readily learned through reason through the study of history. One easy source to learn this is the “History of the Church” , written by Eusebius in 310 AD. You can get it in paperback for less than $10 from amazon. YOu can also get this information from a study of the early church fathers on the internet, but Eusebius already did the leg work on that , so you can just use his work. Jurgen’s also did some cataloging of the early church fathers.

 

[Mick_Taylor]

The Bible came out of the Church. Saint Paul writes in many letters that he is happy that people are following the traditions that have been handed down, both oral and written. Saint John mentions that Jesus did many things that were never written down. The Magisterium, guided by the Holy Spirit, assembled the Bible into what we have today, with 73 books, not 66; Martin Luther pulled seven books from the Bible because they supported Catholic doctrines such as prayers for the dead, intercessory prayer, and Purgatory.

If you would like someone to help you discern truth and lead you to Jesus’ true Church, I would be more than happy to help you look at Catholic doctrines, explain them, and show you how they are thoroughly supported by Scripture. Feel free to PM me if you’d like! I used to be a Protestant (Southern Baptist) before I did some research and God led me to His Church, so I’m very eager to help others on this same journey.

Hi Poetess Kera,

How did you come to know that the CC is the one founded by Jesus?

 

[imkingdad]

On these pages, there are often discussions started by Evangelicals / Protestants that claim that we Catholics teach a different Gospel from them. Well, I would like to discuss a different hypothesis, that the Protestants/ Evangelicals actually teach AN INCOMPLETE GOSPEL in comparison with the Catholic Church, which has the fullness of truth. Of course, depending on the closeness of their teaching to the Catholic Church, different denomination’s Gospels are more or less incomplete.

Here’s my proof points for discussion:

1. Protestants can not show that they do a single thing that Catholics don’t also do toward their salvation. And here’s an open challenge to any that question this statement: give us an example of what you do that Catholics don’t also do. I started a thread that reached 200 posts and not one person claimed they did something that Catholics don’t also do. In fact, many Evangelicals countered that there wasn’t anything to do for Salvation, because Christ did all the work.

1. Everyone can identify things that Catholics do toward salvation that Protestants don’t also do, starting with the 7 sacraments and extending to devotions like eucharistic adoration, the stations on the cross, rosaries, novenas, etc. But no one has been able to show that any of these things are detrimental to the soul. Some said they were not required to be saved, but its hard to argue that confessing your sins to a priest, going to mass, or praying a rosary could in any way harm your soul.
2. When you talk about core beliefs, the Protestant views are typically truncated views of what Catholics teach.
   a) Protestants teach sola scriptura, Catholics include Sacred Tradition and the views of the Magesterium as valid truths
   b) Protestants teach Sola Fide, while Catholics say that Faith must be completed with works of love to gain eternal life
   c) Protestants believe in the priesthood of the people. Catholics believe that priests must be validly ordained by a Bishop who is part of apostolic succession.
   d) Protestant’s believe that you must develop a faithful relationship with Jesus Christ, Catholics say not only do you need to develop such a relationship, but you must also follow in his footsteps, loving God and Neighbor to achieve eternal life.
   e) Protestants say that you must repent of your sins, Catholics believe that you must do this sacramentally to regain saving grace.

And so it goes, Protestants/ Evangelicals consistently preach a truncated Gospel, requiring less than the Catholic Church teaches.

Now to be sure, there are individual Protestants / Evangelicals who do more than their church expects of them and thus approach what a devout Catholic does (except they don’t partake of valid sacraments) and this is not to condemn anyone.

I simply want to point out that the Protestant Gospel is just an incomplete version of the one true Gospel. Can anyone really counter this with examples of what Protestants do that the Catholics don’t also do?

---

I would tend to agree with what you have suggested.

My dear Mother was an Evangelical, I asked her what did I have to know, Believe, Practice to belong to her church ( even asked her to check with her pastor).
Her list of dogma/doctrine of her church was a far easier yoke than what we carry.
I met her church’s requirements 100%, we then went on & I showed her how my Wife & I did even more within the CC to praise & glorify God. She was quite impressed with what our Church asked & expected of us.

Regards

 

[Mick_Taylor]

Well, the old testament all predates the church, but the church is older than any book of the new testament. And yes, this is readily learned through reason through the study of history. One easy source to learn this is the “History of the Church” , written by Eusebius in 310 AD. You can get it in paperback for less than $10 from amazon. YOu can also get this information from a study of the early church fathers on the internet, but Eusebius already did the leg work on that , so you can just use his work. Jurgen’s also did some cataloging of the early church fathers.

Hi Paul,

It seems that one of the things you all have in common as Catholics, is your faith in your religion. How is that any better or different from the most devout Muslims who are totally committed to their religion? I’m not trying to offend any of you, I’m just trying to point out that faith in a religion is no substitute for faith in Jesus. It is for this reason that I’m not terribly impressed by religious zealotry. It is, in my opinion, not the sort of faith that is going to save anyone. Jesus said, “I am the way.” If Jesus is the way, then nothing else will ever be acceptable to me. I only want to be with Jesus.

 

[paul_c]

Hi Paul,

It seems that one of the things you all have in common as Catholics, is your faith in your religion. How is that any better or different from the most devout Muslims who are totally committed to their religion? I’m not trying to offend any of you, I’m just trying to point out that faith in a religion is no substitute for faith in Jesus. It is for this reason that I’m not terribly impressed by religious zealotry. It is, in my opinion, not the sort of faith that is going to save anyone. Jesus said, “I am the way.” If Jesus is the way, then nothing else will ever be acceptable to me. I only want to be with Jesus.

You see, this is where you are misinformed. The Catholic church is not a substitute for Jesus, it is his chosen instrument for teaching the faith and administering the sacraments. When Jesus went back up to heaven, He left 11 men to spread his message of redemption and salvation with the great commission in Matthew 28: 18-20:

18 Then Jesus approached and said to them, “All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.”

He set Peter up as their leader, saying to him in Matthew 16: 15-19:
15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16 Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.
18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, 13 and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven

He reiterrated this in Luke 22: 31-32 just before his passion:
31 Simon, Simon, behold Satan has demanded to sift all of you like wheat,
32 but I have prayed that your own faith may not fail; and once you have turned back, you must strengthen your brothers

and then confirmed it once again after his resurrection in John 21: 15-17

15 When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.”
16 He then said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.”
17 He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was distressed that he had said to him a third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” (Jesus) said to him, "Feed my sheep

9 days after Jesus’s ascension into heaven, the Apostles and those with them were given in visible fashion the gifts of the Holy Spirit in the upper room at Pentacost, at which point they began the work to which they had been commissioned, led by Peter who told the first 3000 converts to Catholicism in Acts 2: 37-39:

37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and they asked Peter and the other apostles, “What are we to do, my brothers?”
38 Peter (said) to them, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit.
39 For the promise is made to you and to your children and to all those far off, whomever the Lord our God will call.”

The church has continued to carry out this commission to this very day, through the successors to Peter and the apostles: The catholic Popes and bishops. You can track the continuity of doctrine and leadership of the chruch all the way back to this event through the writings of the Early Church Fathers, which start with the Bible Canon. in 310 AD, Eusebius compiled and summarized the writings and teachings of those that came before him in his " The History of the Church. This work can be purchased on Amazon or any other bookstore in paperback for less than $10.

So when we have Faith in what the Church teaches, it is not blind faith but faith strengthened by reason. If you do your own study, you too will find that there is far more reason to believe what the church teaches than to follow your own flawed interpretation of the Bible, for who understands what was written and what it meant to say better than the author of the book.

 

[Church_Militant]

On these pages, there are often discussions started by Evangelicals / Protestants that claim that we Catholics teach a different Gospel from them. Well, I would like to discuss a different hypothesis, that the Protestants/ Evangelicals actually teach AN INCOMPLETE GOSPEL in comparison with the Catholic Church, which has the fullness of truth. Of course, depending on the closeness of their teaching to the Catholic Church, different denomination’s Gospels are more or less incomplete.

Here’s my proof points for discussion:

1. Protestants can not show that they do a single thing that Catholics don’t also do toward their salvation. And here’s an open challenge to any that question this statement: give us an example of what you do that Catholics don’t also do. I started a thread that reached 200 posts and not one person claimed they did something that Catholics don’t also do. In fact, many Evangelicals countered that there wasn’t anything to do for Salvation, because Christ did all the work.

1. Everyone can identify things that Catholics do toward salvation that Protestants don’t also do, starting with the 7 sacraments and extending to devotions like eucharistic adoration, the stations on the cross, rosaries, novenas, etc. But no one has been able to show that any of these things are detrimental to the soul. Some said they were not required to be saved, but its hard to argue that confessing your sins to a priest, going to mass, or praying a rosary could in any way harm your soul.
2. When you talk about core beliefs, the Protestant views are typically truncated views of what Catholics teach.
   a) Protestants teach sola scriptura, Catholics include Sacred Tradition and the views of the Magesterium as valid truths
   b) Protestants teach Sola Fide, while Catholics say that Faith must be completed with works of love to gain eternal life
   c) Protestants believe in the priesthood of the people. Catholics believe that priests must be validly ordained by a Bishop who is part of apostolic succession.
   d) Protestant’s believe that you must develop a faithful relationship with Jesus Christ, Catholics say not only do you need to develop such a relationship, but you must also follow in his footsteps, loving God and Neighbor to achieve eternal life.
   e) Protestants say that you must repent of your sins, Catholics believe that you must do this sacramentally to regain saving grace.

And so it goes, Protestants/ Evangelicals consistently preach a truncated Gospel, requiring less than the Catholic Church teaches.

Now to be sure, there are individual Protestants / Evangelicals who do more than their church expects of them and thus approach what a devout Catholic does (except they don’t partake of valid sacraments) and this is not to condemn anyone.

I simply want to point out that the Protestant Gospel is just an incomplete version of the one true Gospel. Can anyone really counter this with examples of what Protestants do that the Catholics don’t also do?

I came to pretty much that same conclusion and have made a case for it in the following article on my blog. Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?

 

[Della]

Hi Della,

True, I do believe certain doctrines, but not because of some ‘infallible’ religious leader, or some ‘infallible’ organization, but because of God’s grace. In my past, as an atheist, I was living in my flesh and for my flesh. But when the grace of God appeared in my life, God caused me to be receptive to the truth found in His Holy Word for my salvation. To answer your question, all of God’s servants have the authority to teach the things that God has shown them by the power of His Spirit. All who have been saved are saved to do good works that have been prepared for them (saved people) to do. If any of the things I believe are incorrect, I would be happy to be corrected. I’m still learning, and I’m certainly not infallible!

Yes, we are all learning all the time. We have to be open to learn, as you have said.

Infallibility isn’t what you think–I’m assuming here. It isn’t our leaders who are infallible, it’s what they are teaching that is infallible because they are teaching what Christ revealed to the Apostles and which has been handed down to them. So, it’s Jesus we trust for infallibility, you see.

All of us should absolutely be living the truth of Christ and doing the good works that come from living in God’s grace. I completely agree. And the best source for receiving God’s grace is the sacraments Jesus established, which the Church has practiced for 2000 years.

A great little book on the topic of the Bible is: Where We Got the Bible: Our Debt to the Catholic Church. It can also be purchased online. It was written in 1911, but is still accurate and reliable. All his historical references can be easily verified.

God bless you and grant you and yours a Blessed Christmas.

 

[Poetess_Kera]

Hi Poetess Kera,

How did you come to know that the CC is the one founded by Jesus?

It’s very important to study the early Church Fathers; their beliefs should line up with that of the one true Church, since theirs was the original and first Church, the one founded by Jesus.

The Church:

"Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. "

~ Saint Ignatius (b. 50 AD, d. 98-117 AD)

The Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist:

“Since He Himself has declared and said of the bread: This is My Body, who shall dare to doubt any more? And when He asserts and says: This is My Blood, who shall ever hesitate and say it is not His Blood?”

~ Saint Cyril of Jerusalem (b. 315, d. 386 AD)

“They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the Flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, Flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in His goodness, raised up again.”

~ Saint Ignatius of Antioch (around 110 AD)

The Importance of Faith and Works:

“And we, therefore…are not justified of ourselves or by our wisdom or insight or religious devotion or the holy deeds we have done from the heart, but by that faith by which almighty God has justified all men from the very beginning (ch. 32:4).
We should clothe ourselves with concord, being humble, self-controlled, far removed from all gossiping and slandering, and justified by our deeds, not by words (ch. 30:3).”

~ Clement of Rome (AD 96)

"Let your baptism be ever your shield, your faith a helmet, your charity a spear, your patience a panoply. Let your works be deposits, so that you may receive the sum that is due you" (Letter to St. Polycarp, 6)."

~ Saint Ignatius of Antioch (also notes the importance of Baptism)

"Those who are found not living as he taught should know that they are not really Christians, even if his teachings are on their lips, for he said that not those who merely profess but those who also do the works will be saved (cf. Matt. 13:42, 43; 7:15,16,19)" (The First Apology of Justin, ch.16). "

~ Justin Martyr (AD 100-165)

Jesus promised that he’d send the Holy Spirit to guide His Church into all truth. He also promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against it. He once prayed to the Father and said He wanted everyone to be one, just as He and His Father are one. This was the case until 1054, when the Catholic and Orthodox churches split, and again during the Reformation, spawning thirty-to forty-thousand different Protestant denominations.

 

[Mick_Taylor]

It’s very important to study the early Church Fathers; their beliefs should line up with that of the one true Church, since theirs was the original and first Church, the one founded by Jesus.

Hi Poetess Kera,

As you probably realize, lots of Protestants have also studied the writings of the early church fathers and have come to exactly the opposite conclusion. I have always wondered (and perhaps you could explain to me) what good is it, to be told that there is an infallible teaching authority when we have no way of knowing if such an authority really exists, or where it might be found. You seem so sure that the infallible teaching authority is your church leadership, and it alone. Yet you have come to that conclusion by fallible means because you’ve used your own imperfect reasoning to discern that the CC is the correct church with infallible teaching authority. The whole thing is circular, if you know what I mean.