The infallable pope

[mangy_dog]

I think they are hiding the fact that there are some infallible proclamations which contradict others.

I see…the “they against us” syndrome.

“They” are not hiding anything

“They” do not have contradicting proclamations.

You are “they”…or at least all the “us”, use to be “they”.

Some day, all of you will return to “they”.

 

[onenow1]

HI,all
All I can say is, there better be someone out there who is protected by the Holy Spirit, with all the preachers out there thumping their bible teaching and what they undersatnd as truth, Wow !

Christ breathed on the Apostles and said, as the Father has sent me so I send you. John 20: 21.

May I suggest that there had to be someone in charge to pass on the command Christ made to the Apostles; And of course Jesus knew there had to be a continuation of authority, for His church to exist continually throughout the generations.

He established the authority of His church on Rocky, Cephas, Kepha, Peter.

Peace, OneNow1

 

[rinnie]

What does it mean to be infallable, incapable of error, dependable, how is this achieved through the Advocate the Holy Spirit. How did Jesus do this, he put his hand over the Apostles and Blessed them and they received the Gift. How is that achieved today the same way HOLY ORDERS. Where does the Pope, Bishops get this authority the same way the Apostles did it is passed down through Christ.

AGAIN where does the Bishops, and Pope get this authority through Jesus Christ.

The Pope is the leader of the Roman Catholic Church, Passed down from Peter. He does not exercise this authority alone, he has Bishops, and council to assist him. Its really quite simple. They are still one unit working together to do the work of Christ on this earth. To us that is the Catholic Church.

 

[ron77nyc]

I see…the “they against us” syndrome.

“They” are not hiding anything

“They” do not have contradicting proclamations.

You are “they”…or at least all the “us”, use to be “they”.

Some day, all of you will return to “they”.

I was at Mass Sunday evening playing the piano for my Catholic friends in the choir. I’ve been involved with the Catholic Church for many years. I still have some questions that go unanswered. How do you explain this:

Pope Boniface VIII issued the ex cathedra bull Unam Sanctam in 1302 which defined that “We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is wholly necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”

Pope Pius XII, A. D. 1939-1958, taught the same thing:
“And therefore if a man refuses to hear the Church, let him be considered - so the Lord commands - as a heathen and a publican. It follows that those who are divided in faith or government cannot be living in the unity of such a Body, nor an they be living the life of its one Divine Spirit. …]

Pope Benedict XV, A. D. 1914-1922: “Such is the nature of the Catholic faith that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole, or as a whole rejected: This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.” (Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum)

I’ve been looking for answers but find more questions. Traditional Catholics reject everything about Vatican II including the Pope himself. There was nothing infallibly taught in Vatican II so why even pay attention to the contadictory spirit of ecumenism that it proposes? Do you have to be a Catholic to be saved or not?

 

[ron77nyc]

Even a heretic may administer valid baptism . . . . (fortunately)

God is merciful and will forgive up to the very end but on the other hand this ain’t no baseball game where we are trying to slide into home base before the catcher gets the ball. We are the bride of Christ. To purposely delay baptism is like a man or woman saying to their betrothed, “I will be faithful to you the day we get married and not one day before.”

 

[mercygate]

I was at Mass Sunday evening playing the piano for my Catholic friends in the choir. I’ve been involved with the Catholic Church for many years. I still have some questions that go unanswered. How do you explain this:

Pope Boniface VIII issued the ex cathedra bull Unam Sanctam in 1302 which defined that “We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is wholly necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”

Pope Pius XII, A. D. 1939-1958, taught the same thing:
“And therefore if a man refuses to hear the Church, let him be considered - so the Lord commands - as a heathen and a publican. It follows that those who are divided in faith or government cannot be living in the unity of such a Body, nor an they be living the life of its one Divine Spirit. …]

Pope Benedict XV, A. D. 1914-1922: “Such is the nature of the Catholic faith that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole, or as a whole rejected: This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.” (Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum)

I’ve been looking for answers but find more questions. Traditional Catholics reject everything about Vatican II including the Pope himself. There was nothing infallibly taught in Vatican II so why even pay attention to the contadictory spirit of ecumenism that it proposes? Do you have to be a Catholic to be saved or not?

The key line here is “refuses to hear the Church.” All the other statements fit under that umbrella. It is one thing “not” to hear. It is another to “refuse” to hear. The point of departure for all of the “no salvation” statements is the assumption that people have rejected [refused to hear] the Church (check the ambient history) rather than “not heard at all.”

Ask any diehard anti-Catholic Protestant: The Church has done nothing at all towards an ecumenism that compromises with non-Catholic denominations. Nothing. And they are correct. The only “compromise” is that we now attempt to state things as positives rather than as negatives.

 

[mercygate]

God is merciful and will forgive up to the very end but on the other hand this ain’t no baseball game where we are trying to slide into home base before the catcher gets the ball. We are the bride of Christ. To purposely delay baptism is like a man or woman saying to their betrothed, “I will be faithful to you the day we get married and not one day before.”

A wonderful and zealous observation but entirely unrelated to Constantine’s situation.

 

[ron77nyc]

The key line here is “refuses to hear the Church.” All the other statements fit under that umbrella. It is one thing “not” to hear. It is another to “refuse” to hear. The point of departure for all of the “no salvation” statements is the assumption that people have rejected [refused to hear] the Church (check the ambient history) rather than “not heard at all.”

Ask any diehard anti-Catholic Protestant: The Church has done nothing at all towards an ecumenism that compromises with non-Catholic denominations. Nothing. And they are correct. The only “compromise” is that we now attempt to state things as positives rather than as negatives.

The older popes were very clear about what they thought of non-Catholics. You had to be a baptized member of the Church to be saved. All those outside the Church were damned to eternal punishment.

 

[ron77nyc]

A wonderful and zealous observation but entirely unrelated to Constantine’s situation.

I didn’t know him personally and I hope he made it in.

 

[mercygate]

The older popes were very clear about what they thought of non-Catholics. You had to be a baptized member of the Church to be saved. All those outside the Church were damned to eternal punishment.

Again: check the history. These people were not just “non-Catholics” with a long history of being non-Catholic. In Boniface’s day, the whole Continent of Europe – and the known world – was Catholic Christian. You had to REJECT the Church to be outside it.

Do you remember the heat generated by Dominus Iesus because it said flat out that once you figure out that the Church is THE Church and STILL reject her, you place your soul in grave peril?

 

[rinnie]

ronyynyc, Something I have learned is it is very difficult to explain some things. But here is the best way to learn and get it right, The next time you are in Church with your friends ask Father.

When all else fails and things dont quite make sense ask Father, he will not only explain it better, but can answer everything you dont understand. Trust me he is so much better at it then us.

But Please all my Brothers and Sisters out there no offense, you are doing a great job, but sometimes its better for others to hear it from Father, we can try but if we fail he wont.

But God Bless you all for your help and answers it helps all of us to understand better.

 

[Peter_J]

Again: check the history. These people were not just “non-Catholics” with a long history of being non-Catholic. In Boniface’s day, the whole Continent of Europe – and the known world – was Catholic Christian. You had to REJECT the Church to be outside it.

Well that depends on whom you ask: some people say that in 1965 Pope Paul VI and Patriarch Athenagoras I lifted the excommunications of 1054; others say that those excommunications were never valid to begin with, and that the Pope and Patriarch simply acknowledged that fact.

But even if you believe the latter, I think it’s clear at least that the two sides weren’t in full communion with each other from the 11th century on.

 

[Peter_J]

ronyynyc, Something I have learned is it is very difficult to explain some things. But here is the best way to learn and get it right, The next time you are in Church with your friends ask Father.

When all else fails and things dont quite make sense ask Father, he will not only explain it better, but can answer everything you dont understand. Trust me he is so much better at it then us.

But Please all my Brothers and Sisters out there no offense, you are doing a great job, but sometimes its better for others to hear it from Father, we can try but if we fail he wont.

But God Bless you all for your help and answers it helps all of us to understand better.

Yes, asking your parish priest is good advice. The only thing I would add is that another possibility is to post a question on EWTN’s Q&A page. (Incidentally, one of the sections is done by Catholics Answers people -: Karl Keating, Jimmy Akin Peggy Frye, Fr. Vincent Serpa, and Jan Wakelin.)

 

[ron77nyc]

Yes, asking your parish priest is good advice. The only thing I would add is that another possibility is to post a question on EWTN’s Q&A page. (Incidentally, one of the sections is done by Catholics Answers people -: Karl Keating, Jimmy Akin Peggy Frye, Fr. Vincent Serpa, and Jan Wakelin.)

The problem with those sources is that they are employed by the Church and therefore they are bound by oaths and loyalty to her. They will never say anything that will hurt the Church even if they believe the Church is wrong. It’s their job.

 

[ron77nyc]

ronyynyc, Something I have learned is it is very difficult to explain some things. But here is the best way to learn and get it right, The next time you are in Church with your friends ask Father.

When all else fails and things dont quite make sense ask Father, he will not only explain it better, but can answer everything you dont understand. Trust me he is so much better at it then us.

But Please all my Brothers and Sisters out there no offense, you are doing a great job, but sometimes its better for others to hear it from Father, we can try but if we fail he wont.

But God Bless you all for your help and answers it helps all of us to understand better.

If you go to one priest you will get consistent answers. If you go to 5 priests you will get differences of opinions.
I’ve already heard enough homilies to know that there are issues of differences between the parish priests and Church hierarchy.

 

[theistgal]

The problem with those sources is that they are employed by the Church and therefore they are bound by oaths and loyalty to her. They will never say anything that will hurt the Church even if they believe the Church is wrong. It’s their job.

Hmm, that’s interesting! What “oaths” do you think lay Catholic apologists are bound by?

 

[ron77nyc]

Hmm, that’s interesting! What “oaths” do you think lay Catholic apologists are required to take?

They are priests aren’t they? Their answers are in a public forum. An apologist will give you a formal church approved reply. They are trained for that. You will never hear an apologist say “Well I think the Pope was wrong about that one.”

We have apologists in the company I work for. When the company does something illegal the Public Realtions guy goes to the press and explains the company’s side of the story. They tell us not to talk to anyone.

 

[theistgal]

They are priests aren’t they? Their answers are in a public forum. An apologist will give you a formal church approved reply. They are trained for that. You will never hear an apologist say “Well I think the Pope was wrong about that one.”

We have apologists in the company I work for. When the company does something illegal the Public Realtions guy goes to the press and explains the company’s side of the story. They tell us not to talk to anyone.

Not all of the ones who were named above are priests.

(And even priests are never “bound” to LIE for the church! )

 

[rinnie]

The problem with those sources is that they are employed by the Church and therefore they are bound by oaths and loyalty to her. They will never say anything that will hurt the Church even if they believe the Church is wrong. It’s their job.

Okay then Ron where would you suggest someone go? How could a Priest hurt the Church in any way by telling the truth. Are they not bound by the Holy Spirit also. Did Jesus not say I will give you the words.

Priests dont know all the answers. I will admit that, they will admit that. Here is what Father told my husband 27 years ago (my husband was protestant) Father said ask me anything, if i do not know the answer and there is one I will get it for you. And i will get you the right answer, it may take me time, but i will get the answer if I have to go straight to the Top (the Pope) I will get it for you. A Priest will not lie to you.

Now if you ask a Priest HIS OPINION, You cant say thats what the CHurch says, If you want the Church’s answer you must say what is the TEACHING OF THE CHURCH ON THIS ISSUE. You must make yourself clear. But no Priest should or does go against the Church’s teachings. Alot of times PEOPLE misunderstand them, OR the meaning they tried to relay may have got misunderstood. Or they were expressing their personal view which when speaking on their behalf i guess they also are free to thier own opinion. But they can not make their opinion the opinion of the church, Only God runs his Church. NOONE can do that, Luther tried and failed and others also, it will never work. Our teachings are the same today yesterday and tommorow!

 

[Mannyfit75]

The problem with those sources is that they are employed by the Church and therefore they are bound by oaths and loyalty to her. They will never say anything that will hurt the Church even if they believe the Church is wrong. It’s their job.

Catholics are bound by their baptismal promises to believe what the Church teaches. If you reject your vow to your baptism, you are lying to yourself.

The Catholics such as Karl Keating, Catholic Answers serves only to inform Catholics about the CORRECT Catholic faith. Many of them study theology and some even had went to Seminary Schools. These are educated men and women who serve God.

I think the problem lies with you and your doubt about the Catholic faith.

I would like to add that Catholic Answers is a lay organization for Evangelizing and Apologetics.

Let me inform you of the mission statement of Catholic Answers:

**Catholic Answers is one of the nation’s largest lay-run apostolates of Catholic apologetics and evangelization. Its mission statement explains its purpose:

Catholic Answers is an apostolate dedicated to serving Christ by bringing the fullness of Catholic truth to the world. We help good Catholics become better Catholics, bring former Catholics “home,” and lead non-Catholics into the fullness of the faith. We explain Catholic truth, equip the faithful to live fully the sacramental life, and assist them in spreading the Good News.**

and its beginnings:

**BEGINNINGS

Catholic Answers began in 1979 after a Fundamentalist church in San Diego, California, decided to leaflet the cars at a local parish during Mass. The fliers attacked the Eucharist and were riddled with misinformation. Upon coming out of Mass and finding one on his car, attorney Karl Keating was annoyed and drove home with a modest goal: to draft a tract that would present basic Catholic beliefs and refute anti-Catholic charges. Keating signed the tract “Catholic Answers,” opened up a post office box in that name, and then placed his rebuttal on the windshields of cars in the Fundamentalist church’s lot.

That modest effort was Catholic Answers’ first publication. Much to his surprise, Keating soon found the post office box bulging with letters—some unquotable, others cheering him on and asking for other tracts. He obliged, writing 24 more tracts that comprised Catholic Answers’ total line of publications for several years.

He also wrote articles for the Catholic press about the clash between Fundamentalists and Catholics, drawing responses that convinced him there was a real need for information on Catholic apologetics—the study of how to explain and defend the faith. In 1986 he launched a monthly newsletter to help people keep abreast of what Catholic Answers was doing and learn more about the exciting field of apologetics.

In 1988 growing demand and his own burgeoning desire to commit himself to serving the faith led Keating to close his law practice and turn Catholic Answers into a full-time apostolate, with its first office and staff members.

The apostolate grew quickly, and in 1990 its original newsletter was replaced with This Rock, a 10-issue-a-year magazine that has become the nation’s premier journal of Catholic apologetics and evangelization.
**

This is strictly a Catholic lay organization and it is not run by the religious orders. There are religious priest such as Fr. Serpa but his service is as a “Chaplain” for Catholic Answers, much like a Catholic chaplain in the military.