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East_Anglican
Guest
I hope this isn’t to in your face but.
I don’t need to defend my faith in the way you discribe because of two reasons.
1, Christ is my defence
2, It’s straining gnats and swallowing camels.
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I don’t need to defend my faith in the way you discribe because of two reasons.
1, Christ is my defence
2, It’s straining gnats and swallowing camels.
C
cazayoux
Guest
I still need 1believer to help me with this question.
If I have a question and need to find the truth.
I want to know the truth about whether or not abortion is okay.
I open my phone book and look for Christian Churches.
Depending on which church my finger lands on, I could get different answers.
HOW am I supposed to know WHICH church is THE church so that I can KNOW the TRUTH?
michel
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jake23
Guest
Verry deceitful! you have no intentions to become catholic than why are you hear on this catholic forum? You dont need to answer that I already know! You did not come her for the right reason to have questions answered but to spread the hate that you have in your heart! Is life so sad that you must take time to persecute Christs children and Christs church on this forum? Can you give an honest answer to exactly what your intention is on this forum becasue it has shown through several of your post that you are not here to get answers. You have only dihonered and downplayed christ children who come on her to share love and have only recieved negativity from you in response! You are contradicting yourslef! You act like poeple are on her are being mean to you when they are only getting fes up after several attacks from your misconstrude beliefs! Will you go to heaven, I dont know maybe but I do know that you shame Christ with what you are doing on this forum! I will pray that you will drop the pride and come to a holt on persecuting Christs poeple!SteveGC: Reading your posts, I am reminded why I don’t paint all catholics with the same broad brushAlthough I have had many negative contacts with catholics over the years(and other religions, too) I, because of the peace of Christ, am able to look at and treat everyone as an individual, and not judge them by the company they keep, so to speak! It sounds to me like you have had quite an interesting spiritual journey, and have finally found your spot! I do believe in the old saying,“bloom where you are planted”, and for me that has been in Baptist, and now non-denominational churches. I accepted Jesus as my Saviour, on May 15, 1967, and was, of course, quite naive about things Biblical and spiritual! My mother has been an incredible example to me of what a Christian looks like. She is the widow who gave two mites, Mary(of Martha and Mary), and a tireless servant for her God. Like many of us I have stumbled through my Christian walk, and spent what I call “dark periods” away from my Lord! But I know that no one or no thing can pluck me from His hand, and He does not mark my iniquities(Hallelujah!). What has really illuminated, and energized my walk, is serving(Mark 10:45). I do street ministry, go on short-term missions trips, and facilitate a ministry(singing and a bit of the Word) at a nursing home where my beautiful mother(one of God’s most faithful servants) now lives! So, please believe that I have the utmost respect for everybody’s spiritual beliefs, political postions, etc, it’s just that I was raised differently(not wrongly), and have a very curious mind
And after 42 years as a noncatholic Christian, I don’t see why I would convert; no incentive. And I don’t mind you guys referring to me as a separated brother, because ther will be no divisions in Heaven, just His followers(believers) worshipping Him for eternity. Besides, I may be separated from your church, but I am not separated from my God:thumbsup:In His service
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Seeking12
Guest
**Can you see Christ or the Holy Spirit inside of a person? This is what is meant by invisible. Obviously you can see a person or a building; but you cannot see the heart.
Philippians 2:2 make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose.
John 17:22b-23 "The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity,
Again this is a spiritual unity, not a physical.
Ephesians 4:4-5 {There is} one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.
Hopefully you will have a better understaning of what is meant when one states the church is invisible. **
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jmcrae
Guest
First, to whom do you imagine St. Paul was writing these words? Ordinary lay folk? (Lay people couldn’t read or write, back in those days.)
And second, what makes you think those people were banished from the Church? They could have gone to Confession and then been reinstated as members in good standing, after a period of penance - just like those priests.
(Those priests were relieved of their duties and sent for years of psychiatric counselling before being transferred to other parishes, as I’m sure you are well aware. The problem was that the Bishops believed the doctors who told them that those priests had been cured of their mental illnesses, when they hadn’t.)
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SemperReformada
Guest
Wasn’t the problem that quite a few bishops hid the problem and shuffled the perverts from one parish to another? Seems like the bishops should have sent the priests to the police department instead of elsewhere.First, to whom do you imagine St. Paul was writing these words? Ordinary lay folk? (Lay people couldn’t read or write, back in those days.)
And second, what makes you think those people were banished from the Church? They could have gone to Confession and then been reinstated as members in good standing, after a period of penance - just like those priests.
(Those priests were relieved of their duties and sent for years of psychiatric counselling before being transferred to other parishes, as I’m sure you are well aware. The problem was that the Bishops believed the doctors who told them that those priests had been cured of their mental illnesses, when they hadn’t.)
Even if the bishops sent all of the priests for medical help, how much common sense does it take for one to realize that you don’t put priests with those problems into a parish setting?
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jmcrae
Guest
I think the parents should have called the police, and left the Bishops out of it. But for whatever reason, the Bishops became involved. They called in psychiatric experts to find out what was the matter with these priests, and to provide them with counselling, and then when these “experts” said that the priests were fit to return to duty, they sent them to other parishes where they were not known.
I can imagine that the motives for doing so were honourable. I think if I were the one in charge, it would be a difficult decision to make, what to do. It’s not like a priest can get some other kind of a job, after all, and to disbar them from the priesthood is (normally) to make them homeless. If they thought they were cured, then it seems reasonable that they would re-employ them, rather than pitch them into the streets to fend for themselves.
But I think if it had been clear at the time that this disease is not curable, then they would have made the right decision, regardless of the consequences to the priest himself.
Well - certainly not if you think they still have that problem. But if you were sincerely convinced that they were cured, what would you do, if it were your decision to make? I’m sure we’d all like to think we’d take the road of tough love, but I don’t necessarily think that I would have, when faced with the actual situation.
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ron77nyc
Guest
This is a very good point. It is related to “The Invention of Catholicism” and I know that is not exactly what Bubba had in mind but it is my definition. Pedophilia was a problem in the Church for at least 50 years and it wasn’t just in the US. It came to the surface in the US because our blood thirsty pirhana-like liberal news media was looking to find fault with the Church for speaking out against abortion and gay marriage. The Church is absolutely correct and very courageous in doing this. God in His infinite wisdom and mercy would not let the Church keep a skeleton in the closet so He did what He did in the Old Testament. He used worldly authority to discipline His people. If it were not for outside intervention we would now be discussing “IF” those victims were telling the truth.First, to whom do you imagine St. Paul was writing these words? Ordinary lay folk? (Lay people couldn’t read or write, back in those days.)
And second, what makes you think those people were banished from the Church? They could have gone to Confession and then been reinstated as members in good standing, after a period of penance - just like those priests.
(Those priests were relieved of their duties and sent for years of psychiatric counselling before being transferred to other parishes, as I’m sure you are well aware. The problem was that the Bishops believed the doctors who told them that those priests had been cured of their mental illnesses, when they hadn’t.)
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jmcrae
Guest
Pedophilia in the sense of what was going on with those priests (sex with someone more than ten years younger, but who is not actually a child - ie: 30 year old man with 19 year old woman) has been going on in every walk of life since pretty much the time of Adam and Eve, and all over the world.
And yes, it’s bad that priests were doing this. They should not have been doing this. And when they were taking advantage of a young woman’s naivety, they should have been arrested for rape. I don’t know why they weren’t. I don’t know why it had to go through the Church heirarchy. That part makes absolutely no sense to me.
I think that if my daughter were being taken advantage of by an older man, I wouldn’t be calling his boss. I’d be calling the police. Even if he were a priest. But maybe that’s just me.
But I can understand why some people might have thought that this disorder was curable, and how they would have thought that it would be okay to give them a second chance somewhere that they were not known.
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cazayoux
Guest
Amen on the unity. Please review the passages I gave previously.
Do you HONESTLY see the spiritual unity in Christianity.
Abortion. WHICH Christian church do I go to to get the truth on whether or not it is okay.
I can’t tell.
We find bible-only Christians on each side of this topic.
My point is that THE Church must be ***visible ***so that we can FIND it to gain truth from it.
The church is authoritative, is the pillar and foundation of truth … HOW do I find this church so that I can know the Truth?
michel
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ron77nyc
Guest
In the 1950’s and 1960’s and probably long before that a priest was as respected as God. People would see a priest outside of church and they would shift over to their holy personality.There was a caste system. The pope was Christ on earth, and cardinals, bishops and priests were closer to God than we were. Many times complaints against clergy were not even taken seriously. Parents would say: “Do you think that could be true?” and the victim was made to feel foolish.And yes, it’s bad that priests were doing this. They should not have been doing this. And when they were taking advantage of a young woman’s naivety, they should have been arrested for rape. I don’t know why they weren’t. I don’t know why it had to go through the Church heirarchy. That part makes absolutely no sense to me.
I think that if my daughter were being taken advantage of by an older man, I wouldn’t be calling his boss. I’d be calling the police. Even if he were a priest. But maybe that’s just me.
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Seeking12
Guest
The local body of believers where you congregate would meet the Biblical model you have described. If you do a word search on church and churches in the NT, then you will know exactly what I mean. Also; keep in mind that the infant church, especially among the gentiles met wherever they could; often in someones home. God bless you!
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cazayoux
Guest
No argument from me here.
Do you think these meeting of groups of individuals differed or had unity in the faith?
Would one give one opinion on doctrine while another gave a different opinion?
No.
… and if they did … how was the matter settled?
They DID have the unity described in the N.T.
michel
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Seeking12
Guest
I believe the problem with the church today is the weak overseers and elders that do not meet the Biblical qualifications; just as in the early church there are many false teachers that have infiltrated the churches. Within the body there is a total lack of discernment because people do not put forth the effort needed to discern good from evil; to be able to recognize these false people.
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jmcrae
Guest
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jlhargus
Guest
Originally Posted by jmcrae
The Emperor and the Pope were always two different people. The Holy Roman Empire was but one of many nations that took the Catholic faith for its state religion.
JL: I am positive I will never see this stuff in the catholic encyclopedia nor any Protestant one. I like history, I read it to relax. It sounds to me as though you are the one who is in bad need of reading a history book. Can you give me the name of the history book you read to come up with, the pope and emperor of the Holy Roman Empire are the same, if it is Jack Chick don’t bother.
The Emperor and the Pope were always two different people. The Holy Roman Empire was but one of many nations that took the Catholic faith for its state religion.
ron said:
JL: I am positive I will never see this stuff in the catholic encyclopedia nor any Protestant one. I like history, I read it to relax. It sounds to me as though you are the one who is in bad need of reading a history book. Can you give me the name of the history book you read to come up with, the pope and emperor of the Holy Roman Empire are the same, if it is Jack Chick don’t bother.
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jmcrae
Guest
Who is JL? Did you mean me, or did you mean to say Ron?
A
atheist1
Guest
This isn’t what the majority of the alleged cases were though. Not even close.
"http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/PriestAbuseScandal.htm:
Most of the priests involved in this despicable behaviour were molesting young boys…81% of the cases involved male on male sexual contact with a child no older than 14.
You are right but it was much more likely that the priest was molesting young boys.And yes, it’s bad that priests were doing this. They should not have been doing this. And when they were taking advantage of a young woman’s naivety, they should have been arrested for rape. I don’t know why they weren’t. I don’t know why it had to go through the Church heirarchy. That part makes absolutely no sense to me.
In the example you used above, a 30 year old man and a 19 year old woman, why would you even try to involve the police? Your daughter at 19 is more the capable of making decisions on her own…I hope.
Since the disorder involved homosexual rape or molestation in 81% of the cases and not a 30 year old priest and a 19 year old woman, do you wish to rethink your position?
BTW, you can go to www.usccb.org and see the report for yourself.
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ron77nyc
Guest
Have you ever read Luther’s 95 theses? That will give you a good idea of what was going on at that time. If you just want to know one side of the story then I suppose you also believe that American slave owners repaid their slaves with room and board in exchange for picking cotton, the holocaust never happened and pitbulls make good house pets.
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cazayoux
Guest
you are side-stepping … please help me to answer the question.
Abortion. WHICH Christian church do I go to to get the truth on whether or not it is okay.
I can’t tell.
We find bible-only Christians on each side of this topic.
My point is that THE Church must be visible so that we can FIND it to gain truth from it.
The church is authoritative, is the pillar and foundation of truth … HOW do I find this church so that I can know the Truth?
michel
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