The Invention of Catholicism?

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but look23467 i think you also contradict yourself.you say the only choice we have is to accep or not then you say we have no choise in the matter.which is it?
 
look3467 said:
So, if we both agree, what difference does your being a Catholic and I being a Protestant make as far as salvation is concerned and how we chose to worship God?

Peace>>>AJ
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your name is the difference…PROTESTANT!! or PROTESTER of the catholic church.the true church is the catholic church.and the founders of the protestant movement new this.it was only because of the unwillingness to listen and accept what each had to say that there was a split.infact it was through arrogance fron both sides!!
 
WAYNE_LEYDS said:
but look23467 i think you also contradict yourself.you say the only choice we have is to accep or not then you say we have no choise in the matter.which is it?
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There are two things involved in Gods creation of mankind.
  1. He created us as free agents: meaning that we are gods, to know good and evil.
    Jesus even said it: Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
  2. Because He created us as such we became alienated, not by our will, but because of the god status.
    Which only He can remove the stigma of alienation.
All I said above belongs to Gods doing.

Now, because He in Jesus reconciled, is reconciling the world back unto Himself daily, we are granted life as a free gift of which upon acknowledging it, and accepting it, we are reconciled back to God under the name of Jesus.

That part is ours to perform, and we have the choice to accept it or not.

We shall profit from it if we accept it, but suffer loss if we don’t. (Blessings I mean).

So, I am not contradiction myself in that Gods works are to save mankind, and mine, is to profit from it.

Peace>>>AJ
 
WAYNE_LEYDS said:
your name is the difference…PROTESTANT!! or PROTESTER of the catholic church.the true church is the catholic church.and the founders of the protestant movement new this.it was only because of the unwillingness to listen and accept what each had to say that there was a split.infact it was through arrogance fron both sides!!
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If name is the only differance, than we both can enjoy the joy of our salvation.

Peace>>>AJ
 
ron77nyc said:
Have you ever read Luther’s 95 theses? That will give you a good idea of what was going on at that time. If you just want to know one side of the story then I suppose you also believe that American slave owners repaid their slaves with room and board in exchange for picking cotton, the holocaust never happened and pitbulls make good house pets.
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JL: Nice attempt to change the subject, a bait and switch. I still would like to see historic evidence for your totally ridiculous statement, “It’s about calling the pope “The Holy Roman Emperor” and calling the Church “The Holy Roman Empire.” Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world. He also refused to be exalted as an earthly king.”
 
look3467 said:
There are two things involved in Gods creation of mankind.
  1. He created us as free agents: meaning that we are gods, to know good and evil.
    Jesus even said it: Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Click to expand...
Not so, AJ. Sorry. He did not create us as gods. This is taking John 10:34 erroneously out of context. It refers to Psalm 82, and is referencing the judges of Israel, who were called ‘gods’.

Further, you do contradict yourself in terms of free will. You can’t have it both ways…either God controls it ALL, including our will, or He doesn’t. If we have a choice, then by definition, He does not control that choice…otherwise it is NOT a free-will choice.

Catholics do not have absolute assurance of salvation…only a reasonable one, if we cooperate with the Grace bestowed upon us throughout our lives, live in accordance with the teaching of Christ (through His One Church)…which brings me to the last point…we choose Catholicism over Protestantism because it DOES make a difference…because Truth is not an abstract, subjective reality, gleaned from solitary “experiential” following of Christ with a Bible in one hand and prayers in the other. Truth is Jesus, and Truth is objective…to know it, we have to know how Christ intended us to receive it…it must be unified in it’s substance. Only one instrument on earth can claim it…The Catholic Church.

God Bless.
 
Adam had only one bride, and her name was Eve…
Genesis 4:1

Eve was created by GOD from a rib removed from
the side of the ‘sleeping’ Adam…
Genesis 2:21-24
Jesus Christ is the last Adam…
1Corinthians 15:45

Jesus Christ has only one bride, and she is the Church…
Jeremiah 16:9, John 3:28-29, Revelation 18:23, 19:7-8, 21:9

The only Bride of Christ was created while Jesus Christ ‘slept’ on the cross.
“…but one of the soldiers opened His side with a lance,
and immediately there came out blood and water.”

John 19:34
Some would say the Church was founded in Matthew 16:18,
but therin Jesus Christ said He ‘will’ build His Church on the ‘rock’ of Peter…

Others say the Church was founded at Pentecost when the Holy Spirit descended upon the Apostles in Acts 2:1-47.
However that was when the Apostles were given the knowledge, and wisdom, and authority, with which to build the Church upon the cornerstone,
which is Jesus Christ.
home.inreach.com/bstanley/bride.htm
 
  1. The House of GOD is Built by GOD. Psalms 127:1, Matthew 16:18, Acts 20:28
  2. The House of GOD is Only One House. John 17:21
  3. The House of GOD is One Fold With One Shepherd. John 10:16
  4. The House of GOD is Not Built by Men. Psalms 127:1
  5. The House of GOD is Awesome. Genesis 28:17
  6. The House of GOD is the Gate of Heaven. Genesis 28:17
  7. The House of GOD is the Narrow Gate. Matthew 7:13-14
  8. The House of GOD is the Kingdom of Heaven. Matthew 13:31
  9. The House of GOD is the Kingdom of GOD. Luke 4:43
  10. The House of GOD is the Church of the Living GOD. Acts 20:28, 1Timothy 3:15
  11. The House of GOD is the Holy Mountain. Zechariah 8:3
  12. The House of GOD is the City Set on a Mountain. Matthew 5:14
  13. The House of GOD is the City of the Living GOD. Hebrews 12:22
  14. The House of GOD is the City of My GOD. Revelation 3:12
  15. The House of GOD is the New Jerusalem. Isaiah 65:18, Revelation 3:12, 21:2
  16. The House of GOD is the Heavenly Jerusalem. Hebrews 12:22
  17. The House of GOD is the Jerusalem From Above. Galatians 4:26
  18. The House of GOD is the Bride of Christ. John 3:29, Revelation 21:2
  19. The House of GOD is the Spouse of the Lamb. Revelation 19:7, 21:9
  20. The House of GOD is the Daughter of the King. Psalms 45:13
  21. The House of GOD is the Mother of us all. Galatians 4:26
  22. The House of GOD is the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth. 1Timothy 3:15
  23. The House of GOD is the City of Truth. Zechariah 8:3
  24. The House of GOD is the Dispenser of the Wisdom of GOD. Ephesians 3:7-11
  25. The House of GOD of the New Covenant, was Founded by Jesus Christ. Matthew 16:18
  26. The House of GOD is Built on Rock. Matthew 7:24, 16:18
  27. The House of GOD is Not Built on Sand. Matthew 7:26-27
  28. The House of GOD is the House of Christ. Hebrews 3:6
  29. The House of GOD is the Household of Faith. Galatians 6:10
  30. The House of GOD is the Fold of Christ. John 10:16
  31. The House of GOD is Protected by Jesus Christ. Ephesians 5:23
  32. The House of GOD is The Body of Christ. Ephesians 1:22-23, 5:23, Colossians 1:18, 1:24
  33. The House of GOD has Jesus Christ as its Head. Ephesians 1:22-23, Colossians 1:18
  34. The House of GOD is Subject to Jesus Christ. Ephesians 5:24
  35. The House of GOD is The Barque of Peter From Which Jesus Christ Taught. Luke 5:3
  36. The House of GOD is Without Spot or Wrinkle. Ephesians 5:27
  37. The House of GOD is The Holy City. Revelation 21:2
  38. The House of GOD is Loved by Jesus Christ. Ephesians 5:25, 5:29
  39. The House of GOD is Filled with The Glory of the Lord. 1Kings 8:11
  40. The House of GOD is Guided by The Holy Spirit. John 14:16-17, John 16:12-13, Acts 15:28
  41. The House of GOD is the Only Church Which Was Given Authority by GOD. Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23
  42. The House of GOD is the Final Authority. Matthew 18:17
  43. The House of GOD is Encompassing the Entire Earth. Acts 1:8, 9:31, 1Corinthians 4:17
  44. The House of GOD is the Whole Church (singular). Romans 16:23, 1Corinthians 14:23
  45. The House of GOD is Offering Sacrifice All Day, Every Day, and in Every Place. Malachi 1:11
  46. The House of GOD is the Church of the Saints. Psalms 149:1
  47. The House of GOD Holds Periodic Church Councils. Proverbs 11:14,15:22, Acts 15:1-33
  48. The House of GOD will Last Throughout All Time. Isaiah 59:21, Matthew 28:20, Ephesians 3:21
  49. The House of GOD is the Dwelling Place For GOD. Ephesians 2:22
  50. The House of GOD is Where GOD Will Dwell Forever. 1Kings 8:13
    Since there is only One GOD, and His House (Church) is always referred to in the singular*, why then do some try to justify the false belief that GOD has more than one Church? Who can name the one Church which fits all of the Sola Scriptura requirements above?
    home.inreach.com/bstanley/house.htm
 
spoiltvictorian said:
Those would have to be invented before the end of Acts since they are in the Bible. “This is my Body,” for example.

This is my body
This is my body
This is my body

As for the orders, what do you call Titus
Code: 
Wasn't the first pope Peter?? Jesus told him to build his church on this rock??:confused:

                God Bless,
                            catholiclvr:)
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jlhargus said:
JL: Nice attempt to change the subject, a bait and switch. I still would like to see historic evidence for your totally ridiculous statement, “It’s about calling the pope “The Holy Roman Emperor” and calling the Church “The Holy Roman Empire.” Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world. He also refused to be exalted as an earthly king.”
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Pay particular attention to the last 2 sentences.

encarta.msn.com/encnet/refpages/RefArticle.aspx?refid=761558731

III The Carolingian Empire (800-912)

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During his reign of almost 50 years, from 768 to 814, Charlemagne expanded the Frankish kingdom until it encompassed almost all of western Europe. Still, it is uncertain that he would have assumed the title of Roman emperor were it not for the support and urging of Pope Leo III. Leo sought an alliance with the Frankish kingdom because of its power, its extent, and most of all its devout Christianity. For these reasons, he believed it was fitted to become the guardian of Rome and the papacy in place of the weakened Byzantine Empire.

The pope thus broke the ties with Constantinople and created a new Western empire by crowning Charlemagne emperor of the Romans on Christmas Day, 800. The new title did not confer any new powers on Charlemagne, but it did legitimate his rule over central Italy, a fact eventually acknowledged by the Byzantine emperor Michael I in 812. Though not yet known as such, the Holy Roman Empire thus came into being.

Scholars continue to debate the significance of Leo’s act for both the papacy and the Western empire. **Leo and his successors definitely benefited from gaining temporal authority over central Italy, in the region known as the Papal States. The coronation also symbolically promoted both the papacy and the Frankish kings to a level of authority comparable only to that of the Byzantine emperor. **
 
Originally Posted by jlhargus
JL: Nice attempt to change the subject, a bait and switch. I still would like to see historic evidence for your totally ridiculous statement, “It’s about calling the pope “The Holy Roman Emperor” and calling the Church “The Holy Roman Empire.” Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world. He also refused to be exalted as an earthly king.
ron77nyc said:
Pay particular attention to the last 2 sentences.

encarta.msn.com/encnet/refpages/RefArticle.aspx?refid=761558731

III The Carolingian Empire (800-912)

Print this section
During his reign of almost 50 years, from 768 to 814, Charlemagne expanded the Frankish kingdom until it encompassed almost all of western Europe. Still, it is uncertain that he would have assumed the title of Roman emperor were it not for the support and urging of Pope Leo III. Leo sought an alliance with the Frankish kingdom because of its power, its extent, and most of all its devout Christianity. For these reasons, he believed it was fitted to become the guardian of Rome and the papacy in place of the weakened Byzantine Empire.

The pope thus broke the ties with Constantinople and created a new Western empire by crowning Charlemagne emperor of the Romans on Christmas Day, 800. The new title did not confer any new powers on Charlemagne, but it did legitimate his rule over central Italy, a fact eventually acknowledged by the Byzantine emperor Michael I in 812. Though not yet known as such, the Holy Roman Empire thus came into being.

Scholars continue to debate the significance of Leo’s act for both the papacy and the Western empire. **Leo and his successors definitely benefited from gaining temporal authority over central Italy, in the region known as the Papal States. The coronation also symbolically promoted both the papacy and the Frankish kings to a level of authority comparable only to that of the Byzantine emperor. **
Click to expand...
JL: I have payed particular attention to the last 2 sentences. Here they are as you posted them in bold print: **“Leo and his successors definitely benefited from gaining temporal authority over central Italy, in the region known as the Papal States. The coronation also symbolically promoted both the papacy and the Frankish kings to a level of authority comparable only to that of the Byzantine emperor.” **The following is your previous statement from your original post; “It’s about calling the pope “The Holy Roman Emperor” and calling the Church “The Holy Roman Empire.”

Were does it say the pope is Holy Roman Emperor? Where does it call the Church The Holy Roman Empire? It seems Charlemagne was Emperor and his empire was not called Holy Roman Empire till some time later, just as the article states if you read it. Point is jmcrae posted you had this wrong and you told him he needed to read a history book. Looks like you couldn’t get it right reading the article you posted. I guess your blinded by your anti-Catholic attitude, which seems to take precedence over fact, as many of your post reveal.
 
sdtouchton said:
  1. The House of GOD is Built by GOD. Psalms 127:1, Matthew 16:18, Acts 20:28
  2. The House of GOD is Only One House. John 17:21
  3. The House of GOD is One Fold With One Shepherd. John 10:16
  4. The House of GOD is Not Built by Men. Psalms 127:1
  5. The House of GOD is Awesome. Genesis 28:17
  6. The House of GOD is the Gate of Heaven. Genesis 28:17
  7. The House of GOD is the Narrow Gate. Matthew 7:13-14
  8. The House of GOD is the Kingdom of Heaven. Matthew 13:31
  9. The House of GOD is the Kingdom of GOD. Luke 4:43
  10. The House of GOD is the Church of the Living GOD. Acts 20:28, 1Timothy 3:15
  11. The House of GOD is the Holy Mountain. Zechariah 8:3
  12. The House of GOD is the City Set on a Mountain. Matthew 5:14
  13. The House of GOD is the City of the Living GOD. Hebrews 12:22
  14. The House of GOD is the City of My GOD. Revelation 3:12
  15. The House of GOD is the New Jerusalem. Isaiah 65:18, Revelation 3:12, 21:2
  16. The House of GOD is the Heavenly Jerusalem. Hebrews 12:22
  17. The House of GOD is the Jerusalem From Above. Galatians 4:26
  18. The House of GOD is the Bride of Christ. John 3:29, Revelation 21:2
  19. The House of GOD is the Spouse of the Lamb. Revelation 19:7, 21:9
  20. The House of GOD is the Daughter of the King. Psalms 45:13
  21. The House of GOD is the Mother of us all. Galatians 4:26
  22. The House of GOD is the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth. 1Timothy 3:15
  23. The House of GOD is the City of Truth. Zechariah 8:3
  24. The House of GOD is the Dispenser of the Wisdom of GOD. Ephesians 3:7-11
  25. The House of GOD of the New Covenant, was Founded by Jesus Christ. Matthew 16:18
  26. The House of GOD is Built on Rock. Matthew 7:24, 16:18
  27. The House of GOD is Not Built on Sand. Matthew 7:26-27
  28. The House of GOD is the House of Christ. Hebrews 3:6
  29. The House of GOD is the Household of Faith. Galatians 6:10
  30. The House of GOD is the Fold of Christ. John 10:16
  31. The House of GOD is Protected by Jesus Christ. Ephesians 5:23
  32. The House of GOD is The Body of Christ. Ephesians 1:22-23, 5:23, Colossians 1:18, 1:24
  33. The House of GOD has Jesus Christ as its Head. Ephesians 1:22-23, Colossians 1:18
  34. The House of GOD is Subject to Jesus Christ. Ephesians 5:24
  35. The House of GOD is The Barque of Peter From Which Jesus Christ Taught. Luke 5:3
  36. The House of GOD is Without Spot or Wrinkle. Ephesians 5:27
  37. The House of GOD is The Holy City. Revelation 21:2
  38. The House of GOD is Loved by Jesus Christ. Ephesians 5:25, 5:29
  39. The House of GOD is Filled with The Glory of the Lord. 1Kings 8:11
  40. The House of GOD is Guided by The Holy Spirit. John 14:16-17, John 16:12-13, Acts 15:28
  41. The House of GOD is the Only Church Which Was Given Authority by GOD. Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23
  42. The House of GOD is the Final Authority. Matthew 18:17
  43. The House of GOD is Encompassing the Entire Earth. Acts 1:8, 9:31, 1Corinthians 4:17
  44. The House of GOD is the Whole Church (singular). Romans 16:23, 1Corinthians 14:23
  45. The House of GOD is Offering Sacrifice All Day, Every Day, and in Every Place. Malachi 1:11
  46. The House of GOD is the Church of the Saints. Psalms 149:1
  47. The House of GOD Holds Periodic Church Councils. Proverbs 11:14,15:22, Acts 15:1-33
  48. The House of GOD will Last Throughout All Time. Isaiah 59:21, Matthew 28:20, Ephesians 3:21
  49. The House of GOD is the Dwelling Place For GOD. Ephesians 2:22
  50. The House of GOD is Where GOD Will Dwell Forever. 1Kings 8:13
    Since there is only One GOD, and His House (Church) is always referred to in the singular*, why then do some try to justify the false belief that GOD has more than one Church? Who can name the one Church which fits all of the Sola Scriptura requirements above?
    home.inreach.com/bstanley/house.htm
Click to expand...
That easy; the church that Jesus is building, made up of all of God’s elect. Next.
 
catholiclvr said:
spoiltvictorian;4788037:
Those would have to be invented before the end of Acts since they are in the Bible. “This is my Body,” for example.

This is my body
This is
Click to expand...
my body
This is my body

As for the orders, what do you call Titus
Code: 
Wasn't the first pope Peter?? Jesus told him to build his church on this rock??:confused:

                God Bless,
                            catholiclvr:)
The first Pope was Constantine; then after that they eventually went and filled in the blanks to have a so-called succession. At some point in time there was no Pope and at one or two times there was more than one Pope. What do the Pope and Mohammad have in common?
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jmcrae said:
And who were summarily tossed out on their heads by Peter and the Apostles. Who is today’s authority, who has the power to get rid of these false teachers?
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That’s a good question, but from what we can see; apparently no one. Christ will do the sorting at the right time.
 
cazayoux said:
you are side-stepping … please help me to answer the question.

Abortion. WHICH Christian church do I go to to get the truth on whether or not it is okay.
I can’t tell.
We find bible-only Christians on each side of this topic.

My point is that THE Church must be visible so that we can FIND it to gain truth from it.
The church is authoritative, is the pillar and foundation of truth … HOW do I find this church so that I can know the Truth?

michel
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I can’t answer that question for you, but certainly on the issue of abortion you can go to the word of God. If you are seeking the truth, you better be looking in the Bible and not to a “church”. there are more false Christians than there are true Christians, so unless you are sure about a specific person and their relationship with God and how they handle the Scripture, then i would stick to the Bible and or outside help that you know are trustworthy.
 
jlhargus said:
Originally Posted by jlhargus
JL: Nice attempt to change the subject, a bait and switch. I still would like to see historic evidence for your totally ridiculous statement, “It’s about calling the pope “The Holy Roman Emperor” and calling the Church “The Holy Roman Empire.” Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world. He also refused to be exalted as an earthly king.

JL: I have payed particular attention to the last 2 sentences. Here they are as you posted them in bold print: **“Leo and his successors definitely benefited from gaining temporal authority over central Italy, in the region known as the Papal States. The coronation also symbolically promoted both the papacy and the Frankish kings to a level of authority comparable only to that of the Byzantine emperor.” **The following is your previous statement from your original post; “It’s about calling the pope “The Holy Roman Emperor” and calling the Church “The Holy Roman Empire.”

Were does it say the pope is Holy Roman Emperor? Where does it call the Church The Holy Roman Empire? It seems Charlemagne was Emperor and his empire was not called Holy Roman Empire till some time later, just as the article states if you read it. Point is jmcrae posted you had this wrong and you told him he needed to read a history book. Looks like you couldn’t get it right reading the article you posted. I guess your blinded by your anti-Catholic attitude, which seems to take precedence over fact, as many of your post reveal.
Click to expand...
The pope wasn’t the licensed driver but he was telling the driver where to go.
 
SteveGC said:
Amen, 1beleevr…

And I will speak for most, not all, Catholics on this board, and answer your initial questions with a hardy YES. And our Lord is most certainly accessible to everyone in the world, whether you are a member of The Church, or not.

No Catholic worth his salt would ever suggest or even hint at the fact that Jesus is bound up in The Church and is hidden from others. No way, no day. The Holy Spirit moves freely, endlessly throughout the entire world. This is Catholic teaching.

What we say, however, is that The Church, by virtue of her apostolic designation by Christ, is the conduit of The Holy Spirit. What does this mean? The Holy Spirit comes to the entire world through The Church, as if like a bridge between Heaven and earth. I know you will disagree to no end. And that’s okay. Suffice it to say that we do not discriminate, nor look down upon, nor suggest damnation to ANYONE, even the deliberate anti-Catholics. Jesus is certainly with my anti-Catholic Baptist family, I “see” it, can sense it without a doubt. Love like that is not man-made or forced.

All that said, Jesus wants us to BE ONE. Not one denomination…one BODY. It’s not enough to just be a scattered array of “believers”…unless those “believers” all believe the SAME thing, and ALL the same things that Jesus wants us to believe. Such is not the case, I’m afraid. Here’s some expansion of that from the Catechism:

CCC 831 Secondly, the Church is catholic because she has been sent out by Christ on a mission to the whole of the human race:
All men are called to belong to the new People of God. This People, therefore, while remaining one and only one, is to be spread throughout the whole world and to all ages in order that the design of God’s will may be fulfilled: he made human nature one in the beginning and has decreed that all his children who were scattered should be finally gathered together as one. . . . The character of universality which adorns the People of God is a gift from the Lord himself whereby the Catholic Church ceaselessly and efficaciously seeks for the return of all humanity and all its goods, under Christ the Head in the unity of his Spirit.

You see, the Catholic Church is not a building, or an exclusive club…it’s one body of unified believers. If you go to a parish is Oshkosh Wisconsin, and the next week go to Zimbabwe…the Mass is the same, the sacraments are the same, the teaching is the same, the faith and moral questions are answered in the SAME way. Does this by itself, mean we’re the Church of the NT? Perhaps not by that proof alone. But the Catholic Church is biblical, you just have to see through 2000 years of evolution to realize it.

God bless you on your journey. I do believe you know Christ in a very personal way, and He walks with you. Please understand that devout Catholics share this very same sentiment about their own faith…and so much more. Hard to explain.

God Bless
Click to expand...
It is interesting on how you speak of how accessible the Lord is, and He is and was when He was on earth. One of the signs of a false teacher is their inaccessibility and expected reverence for that person. They usually surround themselves with whom they chose and are not accessible to the “common” folks; except on rare occasions when it is for their benefit. The Lord and the Apostles were never like that and from that perspective anyone that claims to be a religious leader and expects a degree of reverence and keeps themselves from the “common” folks, then it should be a red flag to anyone who may follow such a leader. Mohammad was a perfect example of this.
 
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