The Jews back in the land of Israel is ordained by God.

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Lev23 said:
So you use Grace as an excuse to cast away the Jews and the Promised Land? :confused: 😦

Again, I invite you to this thread to dicuss your anti-zionism.
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Zionism has NOTHING to do with the Bible, one reason why the majority of Orthodox Jews would have nothing to do with it. As late as 1990 Shaas said they wouldn’t sign the Ten Commandments if it was put forward as a draft constitution. Shaas is also strictly for observing commandments, and not so supportive of the settler movements.

So the state based on its ideology has nothing to do with Grace, the Faithful Remnant, the Promised Land of the Covenant with Abraham.
 
Isa_Almisry said:
Zionism has NOTHING to do with the Bible, one reason why the majority of Orthodox Jews would have nothing to do with it. As late as 1990 Shaas said they wouldn’t sign the Ten Commandments if it was put forward as a draft constitution. Shaas is also strictly for observing commandments, and not so supportive of the settler movements.

So the state based on its ideology has nothing to do with Grace, the Faithful Remnant, the Promised Land of the Covenant with Abraham.
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I would be more apt to accept modern Israel as Biblical Israel if, for some reason, in the last century, Jews started going there for no reason that they could explain… They just felt called.

I support Israel as an ally of the United States. I do not like the way the Palestinians have been treated. Many people miss the fact that a lot of the anti-Israel feelings in Islam are not about religion but about getting rid of the poorly educated, poor Palestinians that are refugees in the neighboring countries. At one time in Kuait, there was no law against a citizen hitting a Palestinian with a car.
 
ralphinal said:
I would be more apt to accept modern Israel as Biblical Israel if, for some reason, in the last century, Jews started going there for no reason that they could explain… They just felt called.
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Just such a thing happened, btw in the late Middle Ages, with a revival of literature in Hebrew.
 
Isa_Almisry said:
Just such a thing happened, btw in the late Middle Ages, with a revival of literature in Hebrew.
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Really? I did not know that. And they did not rebuild the temple or hold the land? Maybe it was not time…
 
Isa_Almisry said:
Zionism has NOTHING to do with the Bible, one reason why the majority of Orthodox Jews would have nothing to do with it. As late as 1990 Shaas said they wouldn’t sign the Ten Commandments if it was put forward as a draft constitution. Shaas is also strictly for observing commandments, and not so supportive of the settler movements.

So the state based on its ideology has nothing to do with Grace, the Faithful Remnant, the Promised Land of the Covenant with Abraham.
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The allowing of all Jews back into the land of Israel from all nations were they were scattered to repent of their ways and seek God the way he wants to be sought after, never to be uprooted again from the land, is soooo biblical.

The secular state government is not a theocracy, nor does it hold any sacred status, but God is sovereign over it, like he is over every other nation.

The focal point is that the people are in the land of Israel that came back from over 100 nations. The Church has the Holy Spirit, and without a doubt, it is the Church that has to breath life into these dry bones.

There is a ministry in Israel that invites other Christians from all over the world, along with the local Christians in Israel. This is no vacation tour of the Holy Land! They take to the steets, not dumping tracts everywhere, but 2 by 2 to witness Christ to everybody. They even are allowed to go into military bases to witness to Israeli soldiers. They witness to the political leaders, everyone. This is what is happening all around Israel. The work of the Lord is getting done moreso than standing behind pulpits preaching how cursed Israel is.

Now Isa Almisry and ralphinal, find it ironic, how people like me, who hold that Israel is back in the land today because of Gods prophecy, is falsely accused of prematurely wanting the 3rd Temple to be built so we can speed up Christs return. WHEN in fact it those who look to the orthodox Jews to agree with their beliefs that the Jews back in the land today is not biblical. This is the same religious tradition Jesus condemed, the same religious tradition that had the torn veil in the 2nd Temple fixed, the same religious tradition that outcast the Messianics from living among them in the dispersion, and the same religious tradition that has the 3rd Temple ready to be built.

GO----FIGURE. 🤷

Do you think, at whatever time God will bring the Jews back into the land, that God will make those coming in subject of the Orthodox religious authority? The same authority that rejects Jesus as Christ? So why side with them on how this event is not of God?
 
i think i read somewhere that the orthodox jews accept that the jews were meant to live in diaspora. however, there are orthodox jews in israel today i am sure.

whether the jews are back in the land of israel as part of God’s prophecy or not, the fact is the state of israel was created in 1948 that did allow Jews from all parts of the world to be able to return to the Biblical Israel. i think that should be respected and acknowledged and they shouldn’t be driven out.
 
Lev23 said:
The allowing of all Jews back into the land of Israel from all nations were they were scattered to repent of their ways and seek God the way he wants to be sought after, never to be uprooted again from the land, is soooo biblical.

The secular state government is not a theocracy, nor does it hold any sacred status, but God is sovereign over it, like he is over every other nation.

The focal point is that the people are in the land of Israel that came back from over 100 nations. The Church has the Holy Spirit, and without a doubt, it is the Church that has to breath life into these dry bones.

There is a ministry in Israel that invites other Christians from all over the world, along with the local Christians in Israel. This is no vacation tour of the Holy Land! They take to the steets, not dumping tracts everywhere, but 2 by 2 to witness Christ to everybody. They even are allowed to go into military bases to witness to Israeli soldiers. They witness to the political leaders, everyone. This is what is happening all around Israel. The work of the Lord is getting done moreso than standing behind pulpits preaching how cursed Israel is.

Now Isa Almisry and ralphinal, find it ironic, how people like me, who hold that Israel is back in the land today because of Gods prophecy, is falsely accused of prematurely wanting the 3rd Temple to be built so we can speed up Christs return. WHEN in fact it those who look to the orthodox Jews to agree with their beliefs that the Jews back in the land today is not biblical. This is the same religious tradition Jesus condemed, the same religious tradition that had the torn veil in the 2nd Temple fixed, the same religious tradition that outcast the Messianics from living among them in the dispersion, and the same religious tradition that has the 3rd Temple ready to be built.

GO----FIGURE. 🤷

Do you think, at whatever time God will bring the Jews back into the land, that God will make those coming in subject of the Orthodox religious authority? The same authority that rejects Jesus as Christ? So why side with them on how this event is not of God?
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I for one want reason to accept it. It is not too much to ask. Paul said that the Jews still have a role in salvation, and once the number of Gentiles is fulfilled, they will be brought into the faith. I see no reason why God needs our help, or even any indication in the Bible that Israel per se is needed for this.

At some time, it will all end. I do not worry about the day or hour. I am not concerned with wars or rumors of wars. There is no reason to be. And, I see no reason to accept that this Isreal is the same as the other one.
 
ralphinal said:
Really? I did not know that. And they did not rebuild the temple or hold the land? Maybe it was not time…
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They did settle back, and there were pretenders to the David line (nasi). They did get the old shifts of priests back in line, just in case…
 
Lev23 said:
The allowing of all Jews back into the land of Israel from all nations were they were scattered to repent of their ways and seek God the way he wants to be sought after, never to be uprooted again from the land, is soooo biblical.

The secular state government is not a theocracy, nor does it hold any sacred status, but God is sovereign over it, like he is over every other nation.

The focal point is that the people are in the land of Israel that came back from over 100 nations. The Church has the Holy Spirit, and without a doubt, it is the Church that has to breath life into these dry bones.

There is a ministry in Israel that invites other Christians from all over the world, along with the local Christians in Israel. This is no vacation tour of the Holy Land! They take to the steets, not dumping tracts everywhere, but 2 by 2 to witness Christ to everybody. They even are allowed to go into military bases to witness to Israeli soldiers. They witness to the political leaders, everyone. This is what is happening all around Israel. The work of the Lord is getting done moreso than standing behind pulpits preaching how cursed Israel is.

Now Isa Almisry and ralphinal, find it ironic, how people like me, who hold that Israel is back in the land today because of Gods prophecy, is falsely accused of prematurely wanting the 3rd Temple to be built so we can speed up Christs return. WHEN in fact it those who look to the orthodox Jews to agree with their beliefs that the Jews back in the land today is not biblical. This is the same religious tradition Jesus condemed, the same religious tradition that had the torn veil in the 2nd Temple fixed, the same religious tradition that outcast the Messianics from living among them in the dispersion, and the same religious tradition that has the 3rd Temple ready to be built.

GO----FIGURE. 🤷

Do you think, at whatever time God will bring the Jews back into the land, that God will make those coming in subject of the Orthodox religious authority? The same authority that rejects Jesus as Christ? So why side with them on how this event is not of God?
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Why side with the atheist/agnostic Zionists?

Btw, all those Jews come from that religious tradition you condemn.
 
7_Sorrows said:
i think i read somewhere that the orthodox jews accept that the jews were meant to live in diaspora. however, there are orthodox jews in israel today i am sure.

whether the jews are back in the land of israel as part of God’s prophecy or not, the fact is the state of israel was created in 1948 that did allow Jews from all parts of the world to be able to return to the Biblical Israel. i think that should be respected and acknowledged and they shouldn’t be driven out.
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yes, drive out the Palestinian, Christian, Muslim or whatever, to make room.
 
I understood the Church teaches that the secular state of Israel has nothing to do with the Biblical re-establishment of Israel.
 
Isa_Almisry said:
yes, drive out the Palestinian, Christian, Muslim or whatever, to make room.
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that was 60 years ago that the state of israel was created.

why in 60 years have they not been able to make a life for themselves in another country? there is jordan, syria, lebanon,
egypt, saudi arabia, yemen, UAE. i just named 7 countries.

sometimes we have to grow up and accept the way of the world and stop crying like little babies.
 
7_Sorrows said:
that was 60 years ago that the state of israel was created.

why in 60 years have they not been able to make a life for themselves in another country? there is jordan, syria, lebanon,
egypt, saudi arabia, yemen, UAE. i just named 7 countries.

sometimes we have to grow up and accept the way of the world and stop crying like little babies.
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The Latin Crusaders were there for several centuries, but eventually they were forced to leave.

Why don’t the Jews come to the US and make a life for themselves here. Actually, the dirty secret is many have already: Jewish emigration from Palestine has been constant and steady.

Accept the way of the world: does that include partial birth abortion, euthanasia,…?
 
i don’t think you can compare the creation of the state of israel to abortion and euthanasia.

yes, many jewish people already live in the united states and make wonderful contributions here. just as many arabs live here and make wonderful contributions and many iranians as well.

however, there is a country named israel that was created there 60 years ago and if they choose to live there, the home of their ancestors, they can.

and there is syria, lebanon, yemen, saudi arabia, iran, iraq,
jordan, and egypt where arabs who do not want to live in the united states, canada or europe can live.
 
7_Sorrows said:
i don’t think you can compare the creation of the state of israel to abortion and euthanasia.

yes, many jewish people already live in the united states and make wonderful contributions here. just as many arabs live here and make wonderful contributions and many iranians as well.

however, there is a country named israel that was created there 60 years ago and if they choose to live there, the home of their ancestors, they can.

and there is syria, lebanon, yemen, saudi arabia, iran, iraq,
jordan, and egypt where arabs who do not want to live in the united states, canada or europe can live.
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The specific issue is not Arabs but Palestinians. By and large, they were poorly educated and simply poor. They became a drain on their neighbors. Countries like Egypt and Saudi Arabia want them out. It is not a Muslim thing, but an ethnic and economic thing.

Israel IS the home of their ancestors. These people are descended from Samaritans and even members of the 12 tribes. They are not invaders who came later. Both groups have historic rights to the land.
 
Isa_Almisry said:
Why side with the atheist/agnostic Zionists?

Btw, all those Jews come from that religious tradition you condemn.
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You ask a very good question, IMO. I don’t know why. Maybe because when the Jews were dispersed from the land for the last time, the religious authority failed to accept Jesus Christ as their Messiah. They really keep the door shut to the Kingdom for a lot of Jews. Now that the Jews are back in the land, they come back to a secular government where the people can choose for themselves again what the scriptures say about who Jesus is, why they were dispersed, etc.
 
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