The Killer Law!

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Zerinus,

Why no reply to me pointing out that the first article you cite agrees that it was bad medical advice that killed the woman with the etopic pregnancy?
 
You are not even putting the life of the mother ahead of the child. You are making the life of the mother absolutely worthless. You are saying that if the baby is going to die, then what use is the life of the Mother? Let the mother die too. Is that what Jesus taught you to do?

zerinus
With the exception of an ectopic pregnancy, and that has already been explained better than I could, give me a situation where the mother’s life is in danger, and the only option is killing the child.
 
Abortion is murder. It should be outlawed completely. There are very few cases where the mother’s life is threatened by carrying a child to term. I have a perfect example in my own family.
A pre-born child is a living human being and has the right to live.
So killing the mother is not murder?

zerinus
 
A law passed in Nicaragua last November banning all abortions under any circumstances (even when the life of the mother is at risk) has so far led to (at least) 82 avoidable deaths of pregnant women (and their babies, I presume). Here are some news reports:

ippf.org/NR/exeres/07FDE066-6CB9-4A65-8B72-9F59619D5643.htm
parentdish.com/2007/10/10/abortion-ban-in-nicaragua-leads-to-death/
iht.com/articles/2006/11/27/america/web.1127nicaragua.php

Is this Catholicism?

zerinus
No its not Catholicism. What is complete and utter nonsense. There is actually no source whatsoever for the 82 women have died number other than the unsubstantiated assertions of Planned Parenthood international and other abortion advocacy groups. Pro abortion propaganda at its worst
 
So killing the mother is not murder?

zerinus
Zerinus,

Directly killing the mother would be murder, as is directly killing the infant. Look, if you think the infant is an innocent living person, there is no way one can justify directly murdering this baby to save a life.

Would you ever advocate directly killing the mother to save the baby? I think not.

Unless you think the infant is not a living human person, you’ve got no moral leg to stand on as far as advocating directly murdering the child.
 
None of the figures are mine. I didn’t invent the figures. I obtained them from the same news reports. If you put the right search terms in Google, you will get lots of hits. I selected three of them to post here, but there were many more.

zerinus
But the sources you cited invented them.
 
With the exception of an ectopic pregnancy, and that has already been explained better than I could, give me a situation where the mother’s life is in danger, and the only option is killing the child.
I don’t know, I am not a doctor. Apparently there are other situations. Some infants die prematurely in the womb. If not removed it can cause infections and endanger the life of the mother. I am sure there are other situations that a doctor can think of. Pregnancy is a complicated process, all kinds of things can go wrong.

zerinus
 
I don’t know, I am not a doctor. Apparently there are other situations. Some infants die prematurely in the womb. If not removed it can cause infections and endanger the life of the mother. I am sure there are other situations that a doctor can think of.

zerinus
If the infant died in the womb then removing it would not be an abortion would it?
 
Zerinus,

Why no reply to me pointing out that the first article you cite agrees that it was bad medical advice that killed the woman with the etopic pregnancy?
It was not bad medical practice. She was told in the hospital that she had an ectopic pregnancy, which meant that she would die if it was not terminated. She was also told that they could not carry out the procedure because it had been made illegal. She had no choice but to go to quack doctor, who had her killed.

zerinus
 
It was not bad medical practice. She was told in the hospital that she had an ectopic pregnancy, which meant that she would die if it was not terminated. She was also told that they could not carry out the procedure because it had been made illegal. She had no choice but to go to quack doctor, who had her killed.

zerinus
But the first article said that the procedure was not illegal. The doctors told her wrong. It wasn’t the fault of the law but of the doctors. Read the whole article. I quoted the revelant portion in my PP.
 
I don’t know, I am not a doctor. Apparently there are other situations. Some infants die prematurely in the womb. If not removed it can cause infections and endanger the life of the mother. I am sure there are other situations that a doctor can think of. Pregnancy is a complicated process, all kinds of things can go wrong.

zerinus
So you’re basing the argument the we as Catholics view the mother’s life as worthless on supposition. Do you have any argument based on real data?

Pregnancy is not very complicated. It’s been going on since the dawn of time.
 
Zerinus,

Directly killing the mother would be murder, as is directly killing the infant. Look, if you think the infant is an innocent living person, there is no way one can justify directly murdering this baby to save a life.

Would you ever advocate directly killing the mother to save the baby? I think not.

Unless you think the infant is not a living human person, you’ve got no moral leg to stand on as far as advocating directly murdering the child.
If you can save someone’s life, but deliberately refuse to do so, that is murder.

zerinus
 
So killing the mother is not murder?

zerinus
Is not killing an unborn child murder as well?

For one thing, when some state governments bans abortion in all its form, it doesn’t give authority to kill the mother by having the baby live (if her life is threaten).

The one who takes the life of the mother during pregnancy is God. For God is the author of life, only he can give life and take it away.

Murder is the ending another human by life by force.
 
If you can save someone’s life, but deliberately refuse to do so, that is murder.

zerinus
Deliberate no. The doctor can do what he can to save a mother and child’s life if situations worsten during pregnancy. The doctor would not be guilty of murder if the mother dies of complications.
 
Is not killing an unborn child murder as well?

For one thing, when some state governments bans abortion in all its form, it doesn’t give authority to kill the mother by having the baby live (if her life is threaten).

The one who takes the life of the mother during pregnancy is God. For God is the author of life, only he can give life and take it away.

Murder is the ending another human by life by force.
If you are able to save someone’s life, but refuse to do so, that is murder.

zerinus
 
If you can save someone’s life, but deliberately refuse to do so, that is murder.

zerinus
Depends, Zerinus. You can only do so much to save someone’s life. Fer instance, let’s say some fella held a gun to someone and told you to commit apostacy to save their life. Could you do it?

Or look back at my original scenario…could I kill you to save my life?

I think not.
 
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