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wifeandmomoftwo
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No it is not an abortion and I suggest you do a search of the forums as ectopic pregnancies have been discussed on few threads.
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Good_Daughter
Guest
I never tried to present what you believe or say, therefore it would be impossible for me to distort it. I just ask questions. I’m also perfectly capable of understanding what you believe and say, you’re speaking clearly in this thread and I’ve heard your arguments before. Your “rare exceptions” teaching on abortion is similar to the views held by some of my more liberal, feminist, non-religious friends.
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zerinus
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And your “total ban” teaching on abortion is similar to the views of religious fanatics of various descriptions.
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dolphinlove
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Indeed
Thats a hard decision, might need to sleep on itChoose; Murderer or Mormon! I know what I’d rather be called.
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dolphinlove
Guest
So are you saying with this quote, that abortion is not ‘totally banned’ in your religion… period!?
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Good_Daughter
Guest
Remember, we talked about this before? Catholicism teaches it is moral to remove the unhealthy fallopian tube in case of ectopic pregnancy. That the baby will not survive is an unfortunate, unintended consequence. God allowed that baby to implant in a place that would make its survival impossible but the baby is not the agressor, the unhealthy tube is.
The government of Nicaragua has never made treatment of ectopic pregnancy illegal. (Please read your own first link.) Do you expect the Catholic Church to keep doctors up to date in their own country’s laws?
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Good_Daughter
Guest
No, not at all. Unlike religious fanatics, Catholics wish for no one to be sacrificed and consider all human life sacred. According to any medical professionals I’ve heard from, abortion is unnecessary to save womens’ lives.
The Catholic Church has neither the will nor the authority to teach anything contradictory to God’s commandments. In turn, the interpretation of any given commandment is safeguarded by the Church with the utmost care.
Take “Thou shalt not kill” for example. As Catholics, we follow this rule but, when faced with an agressor, we are allowed to defend ourselves. Warfare illustrates this point. In a war, when we effectively fight our agressor, innocent civilians will most likely die. While it is immoral to directly intend to kill civilians, killing them indirectly and unintentionally is sometimes the high cost of freedom and safety.
With ectopic pregnancy, the agressor is not the innocent baby, but the unhealthy tube. Catholicism teaches that it is always immoral to directly, intentionally kill the innocent (baby or civilian). In effectively fighting an agressor (the unhealthy tube) however, we may indirectly, unintentionally kill the innocent (baby). This is the high cost of the mother’s freedom and safety.
Of course, this teaching is hinged on The Catholic belief that human life begins at the moment of conception.
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zerinus
Guest
Yes, I remember that. In other words, the poor woman must necessarily be mutilated for your idea of “indirect abortion” to work. If it is possible to remove the fetus but keep the fallopian tube in place, that goes against your Catholic ethics. In both cases the baby is lost; but in the one case the woman remains whole, and in the other case she is mutilated. Mutilation is preferable to keeping the woman whole.
Good grief! I can’t believe this. God allows the baby to implant in the fallopian tube. God has made both the baby and the tube. Now the “tube” becomes the “aggressor” and must be sliced off! The woman in the mean while must be mutilated.
That is very kind of them. There was no need to change the law in the first place. Abortion was already against the law except when the health of the mother was at risk (determined by three independent doctors).
Abortion has long been illegal in Nicaragua but there had been exceptions for “therapeutic” reasons if three doctors agreed there was a risk to the woman’s life.
The new law (blanket ban) has created such an atmosphere of fear among the doctors and hospitals that no one dares to carry out an abortion for therapeutic reasons for fear of breaking the law. And what did the Catholic Church say about that?
Pope Benedict XVI welcomed the ban but added that women should not suffer or die as a result. “In this regard, it is essential to increase the assistance of the state and of society itself to women who have serious problems during pregnancy.”
That is very kind of the Pope. I am sure Nicaraguan women who are dying by the scores (in great agony) as a result of this law will be very grateful to the catholic Church for its support.
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zerinus
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Except for the mother I guess. That must be the only exception.
Yes, commandments which are often misunderstood or misinterpreted, as the ancient Pharisees used to do among the Jews.
So what has the poor mother done, to deserve to die an agonizing death?
How can an unhealthy tube be an “aggressor”?
In any case, I thought this condition occurs as a result of an unhealthy fetus, not an unhealthy tube. It is the fetus that is the offending party, that attaches itself to the wrong place.
Sounds crazy to me.
Still it sounds crazy to me.
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wifeandmomoftwo
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But killing innocent babies** isnt **crazy to you Zerinus?
That is CRAZY!
That is CRAZY!
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MHalsey
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Give it up. Over 300 posts and he refuses to accept it. Instead he will trot out his “the Catholic Church will let the poor mother die” argument.
Pearls before swine.
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Valke2
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I don’t consider your attempt to lable a poster a murder because he is a Mormon. THat is what I consider ridiculous.
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wifeandmomoftwo
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Valke2
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You’re welcome. Every year 500,000 children in India die from dysentry/diarriah, according to a radio program I heard today. The vast majority of these deaths could be avoided simply if everyone had working toliets.So abortion is not “murder”?
Thanks for that update Valke2, but I disgaree with you
There are a lot of things we can do to make this world better. If you want to decrease abortions, you need to take steps that minimize the callousness and indifference we have toward each other. Calling someone a murderer because they are a Mormon isn’t going to do it.
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wifeandmomoftwo
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He wasnt called a murderer becuase he was an LDS Valke2
So in your eyes abortion is not murder (I do understand that Judiasm allows it) and kids dying from lack of toilets is worse?
Do I understand you correctly??
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Valke2
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I am saying that if we lived in a world where people cared enough to make sure their neighbors had working toliets so that half a million children each year could live, then we would be living in a world with far fewer abortions. But the reality is that we are not willing to be inconvenienced, even to the extent of providing toliets to save lives.He wasnt called a murderer becuase he was an LDS Valke2
So in your eyes abortion is not murder (I do understand that Judiasm allows it) and kids dying from lack of toilets is worse?
Do I understand you correctly??
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wifeandmomoftwo
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so the reason people are killing innocent children is because of a lack of toilets?
I am sorry that is the most ludicrous thing I have heard!
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Valke2
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No the reason many people think it is ok to have an abortion is that we live in a world of such indifference to life that we are not willing to make an effort to save the lives of the children we have here already.
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wifeandmomoftwo
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So how many toilets have you bought Valke2?
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zerinus
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Abortion is not murder when it is carried out to save the woman’s life; just as killing people on the battlefield is not murder when done in legitimate defense.So abortion is not “murder”?
Thanks for that update Valke2, but I disgaree with you
zerinus
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