The kneeling saga continues

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Good luck,

I’ve attended a parish where the church has kneelers, but the chapel doesn’t. The priest put it in the bulletin several times that we all need the same posture and not follow personal inclinations.

He went on to say that since daily Mass is in the chapel, we are specifically NOT to kneel. He also said that if we are in a church with no kneelers, we are not allowed to kneel, we must stand.

Also, he went on about not genuflecting in the Communion line (although he did say we are required to genuflect when arriving/departing the pews at the beginning and end of Mass), and that it’s “improper” to receive Communion kneeling, although he hasn’t made too big a deal out of those that do.
 
Karl_M said:
Good luck,

I’ve attended a parish where the church has kneelers, but the chapel doesn’t. The priest put it in the bulletin several times that we all need the same posture and not follow personal inclinations.

He went on to say that since daily Mass is in the chapel, we are specifically NOT to kneel. He also said that if we are in a church with no kneelers, we are not allowed to kneel, we must stand.

Also, he went on about not genuflecting in the Communion line (although he did say we are required to genuflect when arriving/departing the pews at the beginning and end of Mass), and that it’s “improper” to receive Communion kneeling, although he hasn’t made too big a deal out of those that do.
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“He also said that if we are in a church with no kneelers, we are not allowed to kneel, we must stand.”

I’d love to know what documents he finds that in?
 
Karl_M said:
Good luck,

I’ve attended a parish where the church has kneelers, but the chapel doesn’t. The priest put it in the bulletin several times that we all need the same posture and not follow personal inclinations.

He went on to say that since daily Mass is in the chapel, we are specifically NOT to kneel. He also said that if we are in a church with no kneelers, we are not allowed to kneel, we must stand.

Also, he went on about not genuflecting in the Communion line (although he did say we are required to genuflect when arriving/departing the pews at the beginning and end of Mass), and that it’s “improper” to receive Communion kneeling, although he hasn’t made too big a deal out of those that do.
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The Vatican overrules any parish. Per the General Instruction of the Roman Missal:
  1. …In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.
 
You did very well,I knelt on a kneeler the other day that had no padding, it was very uncomfortable,but i thought to myself that if Jesus hung on the cross for my sake I would stay kneeling , so i offered up my pain and i’m still o.k.
 
Why doesn’t the church have kneelers? Is it a poor church? I’ve never seen a Catholic church without kneelers. So, nobody kneels?
 
drifting_away said:
Why doesn’t the church have kneelers? Is it a poor church? I’ve never seen a Catholic church without kneelers. So, nobody kneels?
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The church removed the kneelers 10 years ago, well before I joined the parish. The pastor at that time has since left the priesthood, or so I’m told. But why did he remove the kneelers? I don’t know.

Poor church? I would say so. Our offertory collection last week amounted to only $2600.

Nobody kneels during the Eucharistic prayer. On the rare occasion, and I mean RARE, there will be a guy or two that kneel after communion. I don’t think they are registered parishoners at this parish.

I always kneel after communion. But I did fall into the trap of not kneeling during the consecration. I was away from the church for 13 years, and when I came back, this is the parish I chose for location purposes. Kneeling never really factored in. But a couple months ago, one thing lead to another and now its a major issue for me.
 
Magnum_V8 said:
The church removed the kneelers 10 years ago, well before I joined the parish. The pastor at that time has since left the priesthood, or so I’m told. But why did he remove the kneelers? I don’t know.

Poor church? I would say so. Our offertory collection last week amounted to only $2600.

Nobody kneels during the Eucharistic prayer. On the rare occasion, and I mean RARE, there will be a guy or two that kneel after communion. I don’t think they are registered parishoners at this parish.

I always kneel after communion. But I did fall into the trap of not kneeling during the consecration. I was away from the church for 13 years, and when I came back, this is the parish I chose for location purposes. Kneeling never really factored in. But a couple months ago, one thing lead to another and now its a major issue for me.
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So sad. I don’t know where to begin. This is how apathy trickles down. What that parish needs is a fiery, conservative Priest who can revive that Church and believe me my town is full of them. Our Priests are awesome and the Parishes are active and the huge crowds pretty devout.

I hope you will kneel and I’m proud of you for caring. You will be rewarded in the end.🙂
 
Magnum_V8 said:
Wow, you guys/gals sure have strong feelings on the issue! Thank you all for your personal opinions.

I reluctantly stood again today. Yes, kneeling SHOULD be done, but I can’t help but think that uniformity as a community is also important. Speaking for myself, I am in total awe during the Eucharistic prayer and consecration. My heart is in the right place. I do firmly resolve, to the best of my abilities, to get kneelers brought back into the parish. I’m a nominee for the parish council, so if/when I get on I will make sure to press the issue.

One thing I’m still unsure of, though, is whether or not it is disobedient (to the diocese? to the Vatican?) to not kneel. Is that a law of the church for the United States?
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It’s the law of the church throughout the whole world - the rubrics set out in teh GIRM are supposed to apply across the world.
 
Not all churches have padded kneelers, the pews at my church are penitential, so are the kneelers…😃

but then I get cranky when I see a young person swigging on a water bottle…this is pathetic…
 
Melanie01 said:
Not all churches have padded kneelers, the pews at my church are penitential, so are the kneelers…😃

but then I get cranky when I see a young person swigging on a water bottle…this is pathetic…
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One church here has kneeler cushions but they’re a little awkward to use somehow, and the floor is well carpeted and perfectly good to kneel on. Am I maybe not being penitential enough by choosing the option that I prefer? 😉 😛

And I wouldn’t be too hard on people - one early morning mass this past summer (on a stinking hot day I may add), I’d not had breakfast before church, and no water either. I nearly passed out halfway through. So there are occasions when water may be a necessity.
 
Well, this is the second week that I’ve knelt during the consecration and after Agnus Dei, while the rest of the congregation stands. I was a little more relaxed this time.

During the consecration, I could tell that our priest saw me kneeling. I started worrying, because of reading all these articles and such about priests refusing the Eucharist to people, that maybe it was going to happen to me.

Would he think I’m in mortal sin because I refused to follow with everyone else? Because I may have been a distraction? Because I’m “holier than thou?”

I feel he answered the questions by what happened after the Agnus Dei hymm.

I know that priests aren’t supposed to change words of the liturgy. Instead of “This is the Lamb of God, this is He Who takes away the sins of the world…,” he said, “This is Jesus, the Lamb of God Who takes away the sins of the world…” He emphasized “This is Jesus.”

After Mass, I greeted him and he said with a big smile, “hello.”
 
Keep up the good work 👍 You are doing what should be done - you are kneeling at the most sacred moment in the Mass. The consecration is the miracle of miracle as bread and wine become Jesus. It really is the Sacrifice of the Cross. Hopefully, by your example, you will give other people the courage to kneel and do what should be done. You are doing the right thing. Please don’t stop.

God Bless you!!
This what the USCCB adaptations for the GIRM state:
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This adaptation will be inserted at number 43, paragraph 3:
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In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.
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Magnum_V8 said:
The Vatican overrules any parish. Per the General Instruction of the Roman Missal:
  1. …In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.
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But in this area, “the Vatican” has specifically empowered the Bishops’ Conferences to legislate posture.
  1. …
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Est tamen Conferentiae Episcoporum, gestus et corporis habitus in Ordine Missae descriptos ingenio et rationabilibus populorum traditionibus ad normam iuris aptare. Attendendum tamen erit, ut sensui et indoli cuiusque partis celebrationis respondeant. Ubi mos est, populum ab acclamatione Sanctus expleta usque ad finem Precis eucharisticae et ante Communionem quando sacerdos dicit Ecce Agnus Dei genuflexum manere, hic laudabiliter retinetur.
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As noted above, the USCCB has legislated that the faithful kneel “after the *Agnus Dei *unless the diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.”

*Has *your Bishop determined otherwise?

tee
 
I sag(a) so I kneel. 😃

[Sorry for the thread drift, but I just couldn’t resist.]
 
Magnum, why aren’t the other people kneeling?

I play piano for the Children’s Mass, which is held in the gymnasium at our church school.

People don’t kneel there, because it’s impractical for most people unless they’re wearing kneepads. I personally wouldn’t be able to do it.

Is that why they’re not kneeling in your church? Are there no kneelers? What’s going on?
 
Even without kneelers, I kneel on the concrete or marble floor. Most people could do that also for the consecration if there are no kneelers present. Remember, the consecration is the miracle of Miracles!! Jesus Christ is really here! We must kneel before His Real and True Presence.

I once heard a story on a Catholic radio station. In the story, the man said that one day he decided to attend a Mass. The man was Jewish but he decided to go anyway, I think possibly to go along with some other friends/family. Anyway, at the Mass the preist accidentally dropped the Eucharistic Host on the ground. After picking up the Eucharist, the priest knelt down and licked the ground to ensure that all particles of the Lord were consumed and none would be descrated. The man said “This man truly believes that is His God!” The Jewish man soon converted to Catholicism.

The moral of the story - people look at our reverence and if we are reverent others will come believe in the universal truth of salvation. If we lose reverence especially at the Consecration then we will lose members of the Church.
 
Cat said:
Magnum, why aren’t the other people kneeling?

I play piano for the Children’s Mass, which is held in the gymnasium at our church school.

People don’t kneel there, because it’s impractical for most people unless they’re wearing kneepads. I personally wouldn’t be able to do it.

Is that why they’re not kneeling in your church? Are there no kneelers? What’s going on?
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No kneelers. They were removed ten years ago, long before I became a parishoner. I don’t think the current pastor was the pastor then, but I do think he was a resident priest. Did he have anything to do with it? I don’t know. But he obviously hasn’t corrected the situation. Of course, it could be a money issue.
 
While it’s not a sin to go against the others assembled to celebrate the Mass (by, for example, being the only one to kneel during Agnus Dei), it’s not “right”.

Well, it’s not really “wrong” either…just because everyone else jumped off a bridge doesn’t mean you would have to…

Here’s my advice:

Make sure you’re near the front of the assembly, that way people behind you will see you kneeling, and possibly do the same - and the people behind them will then kneel, and so on and so forth, until you have some sizable majority of the assembly kneeling, then everyone else will do the same!

I’m one of those people that believe everyone should be kneeling during the Agnus Dei, IF they also kneel during the consecration - but if your assembly wants to stand during the entire Mass, that’s another option that I think is valid.

What’s NOT “valid” (in my opinion) is no standing or kneeling, if everyone were to remain seated. Not that I’ve ever seen that, nor do I expect to, even in today’s shaky liturgical climate.
 
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