The kneeling saga continues

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Catholic_Hammer said:
Here’s my advice:

Make sure you’re near the front of the assembly, that way people behind you will see you kneeling, and possibly do the same - and the people behind them will then kneel, and so on and so forth, until you have some sizable majority of the assembly kneeling, then everyone else will do the same!

I’m one of those people that believe everyone should be kneeling during the Agnus Dei, IF they also kneel during the consecration - but if your assembly wants to stand during the entire Mass, that’s another option that I think is valid.
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I’ve been in many parishes all over the country, and they all seem to kneel for the consecration, stand for the Our Father and Agnus Dei, and then kneel after returning from communion. I’ve heard it explained that another stand/kneel/stand cycle with all the incidental thumping of kneelers is very distracting - a practical matter (I agree).

Just a question for those folks with all the tough knees and desire to be as holy as possible: Why rise from your knees when going to communion? You could probably make it the entire way on your tough knees driven by sheer force of will. 😉 The blessed sacrament is present and exposed through all this, right?
 
When abroad I always kneel during consecration regardless of local customs or what other people do. This is all about Jesus,not about norms.
I mean, when I first saw the people not kneeling at consecration (in Switzerland) I was really shocked. For me it was and is something unimaginable.
So as other participants wrote there, don´t care of others looks and kneel down-they should be worried, not you.
 
No, I don’t buy it, everyone.

I’m 50 and I’ve had bad knees for years. It hurts me to kneel on the kneelers, although I’ve gotten better at it.

If I were to kneel on the gym floor–well, I wouldn’t be able to get down to kneel, for starters. I would have to have someone on either side of me help me.

Then I wouldn’t be able to get up without someone helping me.

And I’m only 50, and I have no small children.

Also, most of the people at this Family Mass have 1-10 children or grandchildren with them. Kneeling means that when Jr. runs up the aisle, Mom or Dad is going to have to scramble up fast to catch him. And if Mom is nursing a baby while comforting a toddler while whispering explanations to a school-ager–well, I wouldn’t have been able to kneel and do all that.

The people in our Children’s Mass stand during the consecration.

This is all fully-approved by our Bishop.

(I would say that several hundred families attend this Children’s Mass.)

It seems to me that this is another one of those questions that you should take to your BISHOP, not to a Discussion Forum or to all your friends. Does your BISHOP approve of the practice of your parish not kneeling? If so, end of discussion. If you don’t like his ruling, write the Vatican and report your concern.

If he says it’s an abuse, then ask him to work to correct it in your parish.

I don’t think it’s good for your soul or contributing to peacemaking to question either in your spirit or publically about what your Bishop has declared proper. Ask HIM, not all of us.
 
I’m with you on this one Cat. My not-quite 30 year old knees scream with pain on the nice padded kneeler thanks to a college knee injury. We candidates had to kneel on the lovely, marble floor during our penitential rite and it took me a week to recover.

I did kneel on the floor for a few moments today because I got to mass a little late and wound up in the back row of the balcony which doesn’t have kneelers. Luckily the floor in the balcony is carpeted so it wasn’t too awful.
 
I just want to point out that people like me and sarita sound pretty wimpy compared to the martyrs who suffered and died for Christ.

If Christ asks me to die for Him, no doubt He will provide me with the grace I need to make it through the ordeal and die with His Name on my lips.

But when it comes to kneeling on a hard floor–the Lord HAS already provided the grace–through our BISHOP who has determined that it is proper for the congregation to remain standing during the Children’s Mass Consecration.

I am very grateful to the Lord and our Bishop for making this ruling. Thank You, Lord!

And if the Bishop or our future Bishop should choose in the future to rescind this ruling and make it a requirement for all to kneel on the hard gym floor during the Consecration, I will comply. I will probably bring a pillow for my knees, and that I inform the people around me that I might need help getting down and up. But I know that the Lord will provide the grace that I need to obey Him and the teachings of His Apostles.
 
My observation is that of all the times a Bishop might want to make an exception and allow standing at the consecration, the Children’s Mass is the worst possible one to choose. That is because the height difference between adults and children is much greater with standing than with kneeling. And children can stand on the kneelers to see over other adults kneeling. But adults standling will effectvely block the view of most children. An exception for the children’s Mass probably means 10 years of their never seeing the consecration but only the backside of some adult in front. Bad choice, I believe.
 
Cat said:
I don’t think it’s good for your soul or contributing to peacemaking to question either in your spirit or publically about what your Bishop has declared proper. Ask HIM, not all of us.
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I’ve went one better than the bishop…I’ve prayed about it, not to the Bishop, but to GOD. And he has answered. I feel it in my heart.

Philippians 2: 6 Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men, and in habit found as a man. 8 He humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even to the death of the cross. 9 For which cause God also hath exalted him, and hath given him a name which is above all names: 10 That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth.
 
We had Mass in the school gym/auditorium for years and we all kneeled on the hard wood floor. For all Masses, including the children’s Mass. For the physically infirm it has always been permitted for them to modify the posture if necessary.
 
Two years ago when I fractured multiple toes, I discovered that genuflecting was not a wise idea, since it both caused intense pain by placing the direct pressure of my full weight on the fractured areas, and left me with the difficulty of painfully standing back up. So I did as much of a genuflection as I was able to manage, which was a pretty pathetic half-crouch like the Karate Kid balancing on one foot making the Sign of the Cross, perhaps looking either very silly or very lackadaisical, but not caring what others thought, because God knew what was in my heart.

When it came time to kneel at Consecration, I happily found that I could do so with only minor annoyance and discomfort, and pull myself back up by using the pew for support if I had to, so I knelt.

Now that I am healed, I genuflect normally again.

And I always kneel at Consecration and after receiving the Eucharist, even when I find myself in parishes where kneeling seems to be discouraged and they look at you as though you’re a space alien for doing so while the majority stands. And just like when I was injured, perhaps I look either very silly or otherwise out of place to people who might feel inclined to judge me, but I follow my conscience and act out of the love I have for Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, not caring what others think, because God knows what is in my heart.

~~ the phoenix
 
To the OP: Keep kneeling. You are evangelizing in your posture and don’t be surprised if others begin to do so in time.

In my parish, we have a few families that will only receive communion while kneeling and I believe this is a great sign of reverence. Who can complain about people being what may seem to some as ‘too reverent’? Is there such thing as being ‘too reverent’?

Kelly
 
To expand on what some others have said:

With the new GIRM, the bishop has the legitimate option of declaring standing to be the posture at the time of receiving Eucharist.

IF the bishop in this diocese has done that, and I say “IF” because I do not know that to be the case, then you are in violation of the very norms that most of you advocate writing to the vatican about when someone else violates them.

Funny how when people or priests deemed “liberal” defy norms and Church laws, it must be met with immediate correction - but when someone who perceives themselves to be “conservative” violates them to be MORE “conservative”, they are a Holy warrior called to set an example … :rolleyes:
 
Cat said:
I just want to point out that people like me and sarita sound pretty wimpy compared to the martyrs who suffered and died for Christ.

If Christ asks me to die for Him, no doubt He will provide me with the grace I need to make it through the ordeal and die with His Name on my lips.

But when it comes to kneeling on a hard floor–the Lord HAS already provided the grace–through our BISHOP who has determined that it is proper for the congregation to remain standing during the Children’s Mass Consecration.

I am very grateful to the Lord and our Bishop for making this ruling. Thank You, Lord!

And if the Bishop or our future Bishop should choose in the future to rescind this ruling and make it a requirement for all to kneel on the hard gym floor during the Consecration, I will comply. I will probably bring a pillow for my knees, and that I inform the people around me that I might need help getting down and up. But I know that the Lord will provide the grace that I need to obey Him and the teachings of His Apostles.
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But the Bishop does not have the authority to make that exception.
 
I think Br. Rich SFO is saying the Bishop doesn’t have the authority to call for standing during the consecration, except for reasons already allowed per the GIRM.

The GIRM blatantly states that in the U.S. we are to kneel after Sanctus to after the great Amen. After Agnus Dei, the bishop has the authority to determine posture, either kneeling or standing.
General Instruction of the Roman Missal
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#43 “In the dioceses of the United States of America, [the faithful] should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the diocesan bishop determines otherwise”
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"…except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. "

Our Children’s Mass is held in the school gymnasium. There are no kneelers. There are no pews. There are bleachers and folding chairs. Several hundred families attend this Mass.

It seems to me that there is plenty of provision in the document that someone posted that I quoted from above, for the Bishop to make the decision to allow people to stand. The phrase “some other good reason” leaves the Bishop a lot of leeway, doesn’t it?

There are 7000 people in the parish, and so far, no one has complained to the Bishop about abuse, and if they have, he apparently has decided to stick with allowing the people and their children to stand.
 
Children are young and should have no problem kneeling even when kneelers are not present.
 
So you are kneeling on SUNDAY???

That’s the day of Resurrection…

It is a day of joy, not repentance!

Orthodox do not kneel on Sundays…

Nor do we prostrations…

But when the Holy Spirit is invoked unto the bread and the wine, many of us bend at the waist and touch the floor, and cross ourselves continually, and touching the floor, during the entire unfolding of this portion of the Liturgy…

I am not all that sure kneeling is appropriate during the Resurrection…

Arsenios
 
Cat said:
"…except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. "

Our Children’s Mass is held in the school gymnasium. There are no kneelers. There are no pews. There are bleachers and folding chairs. Several hundred families attend this Mass.

It seems to me that there is plenty of provision in the document that someone posted that I quoted from above, for the Bishop to make the decision to allow people to stand. The phrase “some other good reason” leaves the Bishop a lot of leeway, doesn’t it?

There are 7000 people in the parish, and so far, no one has complained to the Bishop about abuse, and if they have, he apparently has decided to stick with allowing the people and their children to stand.
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The way you made it sound was that the Bishop decreed that no one would kneel during the Consecration at the childrens Mass. The Bishop cannot decree that. The Bishop can state that if an individual feels that they cannot kneel for the reasons outlined in the GIRM then they do not have to kneel, anyone who can kneel between the Sanctus and the Great Amen, is required to kneel.

The Bishop can only decree the posture of the faithful after the Agnus Dei to their return from receiving Holy Communion. Their posture after returning to their place after receiving Holy Communion is up to the individual again.
 
Reader_Arsenios said:
So you are kneeling on SUNDAY???

That’s the day of Resurrection…

It is a day of joy, not repentance!

Orthodox do not kneel on Sundays…

Nor do we prostrations…

But when the Holy Spirit is invoked unto the bread and the wine, many of us bend at the waist and touch the floor, and cross ourselves continually, and touching the floor, during the entire unfolding of this portion of the Liturgy…

I am not all that sure kneeling is appropriate during the Resurrection…

Arsenios
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The question at hand is about the practice in the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church, not the Eastern Orthodox Church.
 
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